Oral Microbiome Advice, One Biological Dentist’s Unbiased Review

Dr. Joel Rosen: Hello everyone and welcome back to another edition of about your adrenal fix where we teach exhausted and burnt-out adults the truth about adrenal fatigue so that they can get their health back quickly. And it’s really exciting for me to interview a new friend of mine, Dr. Seth Gilson. Seth was born and raised in South Florida. He graduated with a degree in Biology from the University of Florida. And then he completed his dental school at NOVA Southwestern.

He has been an avid sports and health enthusiast, and he’s played soccer in both South Florida and New York, at the collegiate and professional levels. So he has a mission to not only help oral health, but overall health nutrition environment, when he’s consulting, diagnosing, treating, and coaching his patients and clients. So that’s what makes it so interesting to talk to you today, Seth, so thank you so much for being on the call.


Dr. Seth Gilson: Of course. Thank you, Joe.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, so in that bio, was there anything that happened or just you already knew you wanted to get into dentistry, kind of tell us how you ended up winding up in the dental field.


Dr. Seth Gilson: Well, it’s, um, it’s nothing particularly special to be perfectly honest. By I mean, long story short, I was my focus was professional soccer. And after sustaining an injury with that, I shifted, and I was always into health and wellness, I was into nutrition and fitness because that’s where my focus was in my life. But when that shifted, I was also good at math and science. So I’m like, okay, my mom was nice and has been an ICU nurse since before I was born.

So I kind of had that, that medical background in the house my whole life growing up. So I transferred to UF and took a course there called Introduction to professional medicine. And it kind of takes you through all the different professions in medicine and things like that, from chiropractics to cardiology, interventional radiology, and obviously, dentistry.

And it was something I never really thought about, but I was intrigued by it. So I started getting involved in more research and shadowing different doctors at hospitals and private practice. And it came to me that one of the cornerstones of health that we just don’t realize is our mouse, it’s, it’s how it’s the most interactive other than our skin, it’s the most interactive kind of organ that we have with it with the outside world. And what’s going on with their mouth impacts what’s going on with their body.

And one of the ways I refer to the mouth is it’s a doorway and a window. And it’s a doorway, meaning things 99.9% of the time only go in through the mouth. But it’s a window because you can also see the inside from the outside. So a lot of times you can tell what’s going on with a mouth bait, I mean, with the body based on what’s going on in the mouth.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Gotcha. So you knew once you did that kind of broke up when you mentioned the different course that you took, but I guess with all the different disciplines, it was a, an immediate resonance of this is what I want to do. And that I, I see that there’s this whole oral biome, like what was it that was that right from the get-go? Is that sort of evolved over doing it?


Dr. Seth Gilson: Yeah, that wasn’t right from the get-go. Like, my initial spark of interest is like, oh, okay, I can use the knowledge and the things that interest me, but in my mind, like math and science and stuff like that, but there’s also an artistic side of dentistry, and then it’s more interactive with people and it’s very hands-on, and I was goalkeeper in soccer, I was always using my hands.

I like doing, I don’t just like seeing or researching. I appreciate researching and reading and things like that. But the activity of doing and being an active participant in treatments and ongoing situations with patients was intriguing to me. And as I said, it allowed me to explore my creative side in the sense because of that artistic aspect of dentistry as well. That was the initial kind of pull toward it.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Okay, and it’s interesting because I look back at my journey, and I know when I injured my back, and I didn’t want to go for surgery, and someone helped me that was a chiropractor. That’s what I wanted to do, right? Because it sort of had that unique experience.

So it wasn’t like you had a specific experience with the mentor doctor that you decided to do it was just more of the right, the right feel at the right time. It combined your background with your hands and your skill set to be able to get but you know, I’m just curious, like, no one ever really feels like they want to be in someone’s mouth all day, right? I mean, what did that kind of resonate with you or like, did you kind of think about that or not really, you know?


Dr. Seth Gilson: I don’t recall Oh, having any, any, I didn’t even think about that part at the beginning. And so like I said, once I took that course, I was also exploring different options. As I said, my mom’s an ICU nurse. So I had kind of access to go in and shadow and be part of research and things at the hospital, I could see what the different aspects of medicine are like.

And it just, it appealed to me to be able to interact with people more so like it was a little bit like you said it was the right thing at the right time. More so then something significant in my life happened. Now, later on, which I can talk about now, if you want that, that is something that I did have a, there was an impactful period of time in my life in my when I was already practicing, that kind of shifted me into the space where I’m at now.


Dr. Joel Rosen So gotcha, we’ll get there in a second. So I was just going to follow it up. Because I, again, felt like you there was an interview that you did with me, and that was, this is not payback. It was I just felt like it was a great interview. And there were certain questions that I had to think about. My question to you is going to be a bit, just one of those. Just no filtered questions, if you will. So was there a certain aspect of it because I guess when I got into chiropractic, it was the same thing. Like I see a lot of similarities. I was a soccer player, my mom was a nurse. And so there are a lot of similarities there.

And when someone when I got my back injured, it’s like, okay, this is what I want to do. I finally knew what it was. And it was gonna be a professional job. I didn’t know how much insurance would reimburse and what the public thinks about us.

And, you know, there’s a lot of things you don’t see foresight with. But with dentistry, I don’t think there’s any confusion about whether it’s a really good professional income to get into dentistry, let alone I like that I’m working with people and I’m doing so was did that, I guess, to question that, that factor into getting into it for you, and what percentage would you say of dentists that get into dentistry are are doing it? Because mainly because it’s a very good profession to get into financially. What would you say about that?


Dr. Seth Gilson: Well, I can honestly say, when I was debating what in college, when I, when I transferred after soccer, I didn’t know what I wanted to do. And just having a good profession and making a good income, for whatever reason, wasn’t at the top of my mind. And as I said, I just had specific interests, and I knew what I would be good at, and that I was like, Okay, what, what would I like to do for the rest of my life and science and math, it’s just always been something that intrigued me.

So I knew it was going to be something in the medical field. Now, I’ve learned a lot since and I’ve broadened my horizons since then. And I know there’s a lot more than math and science going on in the world. But I just knew it was gonna be something in medicine.

And as I said, it was just the right moment at the right time, like dentistry had never even occurred to me other than going to the dentist for cleanings and stuff like that never even crossed my mind. Nobody in my family is a dentist, I don’t even think I knew that. That is like the actual income that a dentist would make at that point. Now, as far as it’s really hard for me to speak for other people.

I can say from my experience when I was in dental school, I would say a minority of people were concerned with how much they were going to make once they finish school to put an actual percentage on it. It’s really hard. I don’t know now that I’ve been practicing for over 12 years. I think the perspective definitely changes and I don’t necessarily believe that that’s a reflection on the individuals.

Yes, we all need to make a living and yes we live in the United States which is a capitalistic economy, I mean, to have a comfortable life you have to make a good living and financially speaking there are a lot of other aspects to living a good life, which we may touch on but to stay focus on on your question. I think the way the medical industry itself is just set up with corporations and big pharma and these types of I don’t know, these almost seem like black holes that we’ve kind of created for ourselves, you get into these cycles, where things are so insurance driven as you had mentioned, that volume becomes a necessity. Just to stay in business in a lot of situations.

Now, there are a few models in which it’s taken me over 12 years to come to a bit of an understanding and reach a point where we don’t have an insurance-driven practice. And some people, some practices are just completely dismissive of insurance, like we don’t do anything with it. Now, we’re not in network with insurance where I practice, but, depending on the type of insurance that patients have, we will accept their insurance, and then their insurance reimburses the patient.

So whatever insurance you have, whatever deal you’ve made with the insurance, they’re gonna give that money back to you. We have nothing to do with it, we’ll just send it and fill it out for you as a courtesy because that can be a hassle for people that don’t do these things. Right.


Dr. Joel Rosen: I appreciate you answering the question. And being a good sport about it. It’s more of my thought. And it’s very similar in the chiropractic profession to right, you could be insured and out of insurance and so forth. I was just curious are people that are getting into the profession, are they doing this because they just have this passion for the oral microbiome and the teeth and structural fixing it? Is there a little bit of both, they just kind of weren’t sure. And it sounded like a good idea. I just I was just kind of curious in a lot of different ways. So let’s Okay, go ahead.


Dr. Seth Gilson: Yeah, I was just gonna say that. I mean, it’s really hard for me to say now, the few people that I that are trying to get into a dental school that I know, personally, really are passionate about health and dentistry in particular, those are generally foreign-trained dentists that have moved here that want to continue practicing. But I would say the majority of people do care and enjoy what they’re doing.

And right. Again, it’s just the cycle that we find ourselves in, in this medical system that kind of breaks people down. And like that medical burnout that a lot of people experience, it’s because we’re not taught how to handle ourselves, let alone healthily present ourselves and practice six, five to six days a week, and see X amount of patients a day, and do our best and be mindful about it. We’re just not trained or educated in that in that aspect. Right. Right. Good.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Thank you. So as far as switching it up, your holistic dentists slash biological dentists, so maybe give us the genesis of that, was that something that you wanted to get into from the get-go? Or you’ve kind of evolved into that? And maybe for the listener, that doesn’t know what exactly that means? Or what’s different between a regular dentist that’s not holistic or biological? Let’s maybe talk about those two things.


Dr. Seth Gilson: Okay. So it was 100% an evolutionary process. I would say 90, at least 95% of dentists, if you go and you speak to them, it’s probably gotten, it’s gotten better. But 95% of dentists have never even heard of biological dentistry. People have heard of holistic medicine.

So that’s, that’s why that term holistic, is used. It’s just so people, just hearing that term, know what you’re talking about in it, or at least have an idea. Now, a lot of times there’s there’s a negative stigma attached to that, which is what we’ll talk about now.

So what biological dentistry is, it’s completely science-based it there’s a lot of research that goes on all around the world, surrounding biological dentistry. And what that essentially is, it’s similarly to functional medicine, it’s looking for the root cause of what’s causing the problems in the body or in, in this case, the mouth, and how oral health is connected to systemic health, and how systemic health is connected to oral health and how they interact with each other through different avenues like the oral microbiome, which is in the gut microbiome, which is a huge topic of research these days.


Dr. Joel Rosen: So with that being said, not 90% or plus, not knowing it’s the concept that just seems logical with what you explained to me is not being taught in the traditional approaches, or the majority, like 90% of the curriculums, they they don’t have very much training on that. And it’s just sort of reductionistic let’s just structurally address the mouth. And that’s it. That’s all.


Dr. Seth Gilson: A lot of it is very reductionistic. And they’re very, they do recognize correlations with certain diseases to oral health, like diabetes and cardiovascular disease, because they’re, I mean, they’re just pro-inflammatory or hyper-inflammatory disorders. But one of the big things that we do in biological dentistry is focused on methodology and mature reels.

And what we use and what we put are essentially like fillings are implantation into your tooth or a dental implant. So to speak, what we put in your body needs to be what’s called biomimetic or biocompatible, meaning your body needs to accept whatever it is that we’re putting in, and the least amount of toxic materials that we can use, the better. And those are the types of things that we look at. I mean, even we go as far as providing patients with blood tests, so they can go get blood drawn, and see if they are reactive to any of the materials used in dentistry, whether it’s a filling material, whether it’s a polish that they use in the hygiene room, whether it’s an oral rinse that use two different kinds of toothpaste, or pretty much anything you can imagine.


Dr. Joel Rosen: It’s fascinating stuff. So do you find that because you stress the fact that the biological dentist is scientific-based, which, to me seems redundant, I would assume it would be right? But I would imagine the reason you’re saying that is because maybe some of the opposition from those that are sort of the rigid reductionistic traditionally trained, don’t feel that there’s a validation to it, or they justify that it’s not science, or what was the need to sort of? Well, by that, yeah.


Dr. Seth Gilson: Because I mean, for example, with like fluoride and mercury amalgam fillings, they’re the research that’s been done around these things. Who’s, who’s done the research, and where’s the research originated from?

And a lot of times, we don’t know, these things, and the way the research is done. I mean, there’s an incentive to do things in a very particular way. Whereas biological medicine or holistic medicine, we, it’s it, there’s no incentive, there’s that we’re not looking for a particular outcome. We’re testing and observing results, creating hypotheses, testing, and seeing if the results are the same again.

And what we see time and time and time, again, is that these things are neurotoxic, for example, Florida and mercury in the body. And when you have bigger governing bodies for a bit, especially in this particular case, the dental, dental, administrative bodies just don’t seem to recognize that these things are a problem. And you have to I mean, once you start looking deeper into where the research originates from, or where the funding from, this comes from, to this university, which did the research which got published in this article, I mean, so yes, modern dentistry that you that we would see in the in a dental school is research-based, but it’s where who’s doing the research is your big question.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Right? And you’re tipping over sacred cows, right? I mean, you’re these are things that have been long with standard and, I guess, clinically proven with Biased or Unbiased information. And it’s like that with every research, by the way, not just that, but there are some, it’s interesting, I can’t remember what the book was.

But the story I read on how fluoride got approved, was an I don’t want to butcher the entire story. But from what I remember, it was sort of a waste product of heavy industrial production, and being able to not pollute the waters or be able to monetize it unbiasedly create results that would show there’s a need for it, it’s just quite amazing.

So does there sort of just, it’s not the angle I want it to take, but is there a certain doctor, like I know when some doctors call themselves functional medicine doctors, but they’re not functional medicine doctors, they do things very traditionally, they don’t look at functional ranges. They’re prescribing medications, and they’re certainly not functional. So do you have that same phenomenon of doctors that want to sort of capture, the market that they would otherwise not be able to get by saying that they are holistic or biological as well?


Dr. Seth Gilson: Well, two things. So to rewind a little bit with the fluoride. Another really interesting fact about that is that I mean, we’re in the age of double-blind, placebo-controlled studies and all these things. There was no intensive research done on fluoride before it was implemented in the water supply. And if you look at, I mean, I’ve posted about these things on Instagram, and you can see the actual charts of different countries around the world and how they’ve reduced the amount of fluoride in the water as time has gone on. And it’s, well why because now that they’ve started doing research, they see that there are problems with it, and it bioaccumulates in the body.

And that fluoride is just everywhere. It’s in the sun. Oil. So it’s in our food. It’s in water. It’s in 95% of dental products that eat not just toothpaste, but everything you get actually at the office like, even though a lot of times when the hygienist cleans your teeth and they polish your teeth afterward, but at times that has fluoride in it.

And as I said before, it’s a neurotoxin. So now, going back to what you were saying, I have heard from other patients that have come to see me that other practitioners say their biological dentists, or functional dentists, and they’re not doing things the way we do them, which is, for example, using what’s called the Smart technique. That’s the safe mercury amalgam removal technique that was created by the IAEA OMT, which is the International Academy of oral medicine, toxicology.

So they’ve come up with basically a baseline standard of how biological dentistry should be practiced. And then there are layers to that, of course, and again, that’s the completely research-based organization. That’s one of the organizations so if anybody’s curious, you can just go to iaomt.org. And you can find it and it’s all on there for free, you don’t have to pay for it.

You can see all of this about amalgam fillings, you can see things about fluoride, you can see things about root canals, different toxicity, things that are used in general practice. So yes, people are practicing that say they’re biological or functional and aren’t doing things to standard, biological standard, based on what I’ve heard from patients.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Gotcha. So as far as the I M O, T goes, is that if I’m a doctor, if I’m a doctor, like yourself, and I have the mindset to be biological, and I joined that organization, is it a matter of a membership fee? Or do I take certifications to hold my status? What entailed being a member of that association?


Dr. Seth Gilson: Oh, they, they just, they because this is no, they have, I haven’t heard anybody in from that organization say this directly to me. But to me, biological dentistry is just dentistry. That’s just how dentistry should be practiced. So they agree. Yeah.

All of the information in the videos, and educational videos for dentists on how to do things, it’s free, you can just go on the website and see how it’s done. Now to be to get a certificate from them just like other professional organizations, because that’s the only way they make money is through donations, dentists that join them and pay their membership fees annually, right? So yes, you pay membership annually. And I mean, we have meetings two or three times a year, there are different groups and things that you can be a part of, there’s mentorship, opportunities within the organization.

There’s also you can become a fellow of the organization and kind of work your way up. As I said, there are different layers to how proficient you want to become, and well known as a biological dentist.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, you’re not an impostor, just like hanging out at the I am or if you’re not of that mindset, and you have that sort of that, that, I guess the philosophy of approaching holistic health care that way. So I guess just to get off the subject with one more, one more just inquiry, Seth, would you say that, as the profession ages and turns over and have newer younger, maybe more, I would think, more open-minded, or at least not as dogmatic about the research and the studies and where it came from?

That there’s a turning over, like they say, like, I don’t remember the exact saying, but as theories change as people die, right, because you don’t have the staunch, dogmatic people defending something that’s not accurate. They die and now you have the truth prevails. Right. So are you seeing a turnover in the profession in that case, or not? Really.


Dr. Seth Gilson: I would say it’s slow. And that’s because the big corporations, especially like the big dental corporations that are now taking over, right, instead of private practices, you have a lot of these bigger organizations that are creating, like 10 offices in South Florida, of whatever name of the offices, and a lot of times they offer because these are big corporations they can offer recent graduates, great deals coming out of school.

I mean, that’s one thing that a lot of people don’t understand like you were talking about before that, yes, you can. You can make a very good living as pretty much any kind of doctor but as a dentist, but you come out of school with a lot of loans, too. So when someone’s willing to pay you and our salary and you get these bonuses and things like that. It is very intriguing to some of the just recently graduated has hundreds of 1000s of dollars in loans to step into that kind of realm of things. And then that’s just basically another corporate rabbit. I mean, right Mr. Wheel, so to speak.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Right. They’re not doing safe mercury amalgam removals, they’re not doing the sort of different approaches in terms of the methodology and the materials being used and the fluorides. And the awareness of the of all of that correct. They’re not.

They’re not? Yeah, I mean, I could see the intrigue, you know, especially the same thing for me when I graduated and moved to Florida and had to wait to take my license, the only places that would hire you are the big pie Mills, right? And they’re not really what I wanted to go to school for.

And I lasted two weeks and like, Okay, this is it, I’m not going to stay here anymore. So it’s unfortunate that happens. But anyway, so switching things up here. So I guess I sort of have a left-field question. What do you hate the most about your profession?


Dr. Seth Gilson: Well, I bet that’s easy to answer that in the insurance issues, the insurance companies, and how insurance straight I know, in my practice, I mean, now, I don’t I don’t have that. But we have it a little bit, because as I said, we still have, and we still will submit things for patients.

But the downgrading or the refusal, to cover something for a patient when the patient was told, or it’s in their plan that this will be covered, or they cover it differently. There are endless excuses or reasons as to why an insurance company will deny a claim. I’m sure this happens with yours, your feeling.


Dr. Joel Rosen: I remember when I remember in a past life, yeah, yeah, you didn’t rub your stomach and tap your head and jump on your foot and have a half-moon out and the winds blowing north to west, you’re not gonna get approved of certain, you know, procedures.


Dr. Seth Gilson: And it’s just everything’s insurance driven, rather than health driven for the unique individual. And that’s why that’s one of the big reasons that I’ve shifted to where I’m at because everybody’s unique, and all of our health needs are unique.

Everybody’s not the like, you’re talking about for how you stare at everybody’s, you look and everybody’s different people’s mouths every day. How is that intriguing, everybody’s so unique and different. And, that it needs to we need to be treated that way. In all of medicine. Yeah, for sure.


Dr. Joel Rosen: So as far as that, it’s a good segue, then in terms of you have your social media, and you’re, you’re out there, and you have something called Art of mindful medicine. So I’m curious to know the genesis of that. But in your intro, you talk about you doing all these interviews, and this research or just going into these different areas, because you can’t specialize in everything.

And you would want to be able to get as much information as you can. So two-part question, what does it mean, the art of mindful medicine? And what else would you be specializing in are what is what areas are you wanting to go into with that being the case?


Dr. Seth Gilson: Well, so the art of mindful medicine? I mean, where do I start? Okay, so I’m also a yoga practitioner and a yoga teacher. And mindfulness has become a huge part of my life, over the past six or so years. And when the pandemic started, I had been looking to, how can I do something because before that, let’s see, in 2018, I almost was getting burnt out, I was tired of just sort of treating the same thing over and over again, and not not not being able to help people. So healing rather than treating.

And it got to the point where I was burnt out and couldn’t stand how practices run and how the insurance everything was so insurance driven. And I just wasn’t happy with how things were going. So I took about a seven, seven-month hiatus and was left medicine completely. And then I sort of decided through my self-discovery and self-reflection that I would be a better, more beneficial, and greater change, if of any change from within medicine rather than from the outside.

So through that, I started practicing and viewing the world differently. And that’s when I started looking into and found biological dentistry. I had to seek it out myself. Like nobody told me about it. I was just doing my research on these things. And then the art of mindful medicine came about at the beginning of the pandemic, as I said before because, at that point, we couldn’t even work we weren’t allowed to see patients unless it was on an emergency basis. So I said, this is the opportunity for me to continue to go within and see what can I do to give back beyond what I do in my practice.

So I came up with the name of the art of mindful medicine. And I wanted to interview other practitioners that viewed the world in a similar way that you and I view the world through a health care system, rather than a sick care system. And through holistic medicine, natural medicine, and functional medicine come together and find the root cause of what’s going on with the unique individual.

And I want to learn from people like yourself and share the things that I’ve learned and have conversations. So we can share this with people that don’t have the opportunity to look up what Chinese medicine is, what biological dentistry is what functional medicine is. So you can come and see on a channel, you can learn from a vegan cardiologist, two different biological dentists to functional medicine doctors, like yourself about how lifestyle impacts everything that we do in life.

And it’s not just your genetics, or it’s not just luck of the draw that you’re gonna whether you’re gonna be healthy or sick. So that mindful approach that awareness of myself and the opportunity that I have to share what I’ve learned with other people, and to in this present moment, that’s where the art of mindful medicine kind of stems from because like I said, I just did, I’ve done the research, and I’ve done rounds, and I’ve shadowed in hospitals and different doctors offices, I see how medicine operates. And mindfulness, the number one place mindfulness should be practiced, is in medicine. And in what I’ve seen, and what other people have shared with me, it is the opposite of that, where mindfulness is lacking in medicine, in the western world anyways. So that’s kind of where that whole channel on YouTube stems from? That’s great. Thank you for sharing.


Dr. Joel Rosen: So as far as where does that fit in now with your practice, in terms of how you approach your patients and how it’s being received? And what additional role do you play? What what’s where, where are you now and where are you headed?


Dr. Seth Gilson: So it allows me to, again, have had a greater scope a bit a better view of the person as a whole, rather than just above their neck. Now, it’s not that I treat other things, but I can tell people how I’ve chosen to live life.

And I can tell people how these things have had an impact on my life and what I’ve learned through other practitioners like yourself and refer patients to other practitioners like yourself when they have this kind of problem. And then we work together, and we create, like a health team, so to speak, because we have to address it, and then when people are sick, you have to start from the ground up. And that’s we have to cover all of our bases, and how that’s worked for me.

So it’s allowed me to learn a lot about different different areas of medicine and health that I just have, we there are only so many hours in the day. And being able to share that with patients say, Hey, I spoke to this person, we did an interview, you can watch this video, you can go watch their videos, here, you can find all this information, go explore, educate yourself to some degree, and learn about where these problems in yourself are coming from. And then we can have higher level discussions and start implementing new things in your life to be healthy.

And where that’s leading me. I don’t have I just know it’s a direction, it’s not necessarily a destination. And it’s one which I constantly seek to become the greatest version of myself, learning as much as I can and constantly being a student.

And not just learning from other practitioners like you, but learning from people learning from the patients, because people that’s one of the biggest things that I’ve learned to do is to just listen. And that’s one of the biggest differences and the way I practice now from the way I practice before is patients and spending time with people. And sometimes, it can get a little carried away, it might spend a little too much time talking, talking to people.

But creating those kinds of relationships and creating a level of trust and respect for each other makes a huge difference. I mean, when when I authentically want to help you and you feel that it makes a difference in how you want to approach the whole situation yourself. And that’s what The Art of mindful medicine is that’s, that’s what I’ve tried to create for myself. And that’s one of my outlets in sharing it. So it’s a direction. And I just continue to want to grow that aspect of my life and my practice and share it with as many people as I can.


Dr. Joel Rosen: For sure, I know, thank you for sharing, I think it’s having the most impact right on the people that sit in your chair, beyond just opening their mouth. And it’s a win-win, the more that you can listen to them and hear them as a person and what their challenges are, who they are, it enriches you as well. So it’s an equal exchange of energy.

As far as I would imagine, with having a biological practice base, these people are going to be more open to this versus if you were in the insurance-based model, they might necessarily not want to hear it, and you’re going to be going upstream. So just a quick pivot as far as what you love most about what you do, because we said, hey, what about love now?


Dr. Seth Gilson: What I love most, the first thing that comes to mind is to get getting to know people, I think we’re so worth we’re such amazing beings. And we’ve learned and can share so much with each other. And I constantly have the opportunity to communicate and meet new people daily.

And like I said that I’m a constant student, as I said, and I get I love the opportunity to learn from others every single day.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Do you find at all that the external rewards, whether it’s a different smile? A more? I guess even physical changes because of whatever toxic elements or chemicals, better health from that standpoint, maybe even less pain?

Because they’re not in a crisis like that. Do you ever see the product of your work immediately? And does that? What does that like? What are some of the rewards you get from that?


Dr. Seth Gilson: Absolutely. I mean, for example, one of the most common bad habits that people have, that’s probably one of the most underdiagnosed issues in dentistry is what’s called sleep-disordered breathing, which is on the same spectrum as sleep apnea.

And one of the symptoms of that is grinding our teeth. And this has been something that I’ve dealt with too. So it’s been, it’s very close to home for me to be able to talk to people about it. And people that are grinding clench their teeth for whatever reason that it’s going on. Have, they suffered severely, I mean, jaw pain, neck pain, back pain, you probably have seen a lot of patients with this headaches, migraines, just they don’t get, they can’t they don’t get good sleep, which is instrumental for our health asleep.

So being able to work with people and get them to breathe better, and create devices or processes, which help them prevent them from grinding their teeth. And the inst, almost instant relief of pain, in some cases is amazing. I mean, the people the color comes back in their faces.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, that’s great. So one of the that’s a good segue into just the role not so much yet into the oral microbiome because I didn’t want to get into that. But more in terms of minerals and food quality, and the arches and the density of the bones and cavities and so forth. I guess.

Have you been doing it for 12 years? Did you mention that are a little over 12 years? Have you seen are you seeing now a change or more of an epidemic of bone density? Just the arches and a lot of consequences of societal changes environmentally accelerated in the last 12 years? Is that a big part of why we’re seeing some of these challenges more and more?


Dr. Seth Gilson: I think it’s a combination of things. So as my awareness has broadened, and become greater, I’ve started to look and notice things more. Now, and you look at studies and if we read and we can see the tendencies over the last 50 years, and how airway collapse and jaws not fully forming and or people narrowing of the faces and things like that is We’ve been a tendency like there’s nobody can deny it. It’s just the question, the debate is around why.

And, yes, nutrition is a huge part of things. So mineral density and what you know, our body is made of what we eat. And if we don’t eat nutrient high quality, nutrient-dense foods, we don’t get high-quality, nutrient-dense results. So, yes, jaw formation and arch with and proper, proper dentition spacing and things like that. It is impacted by nutrition.

And when I say nutrition, it’s what we eat, but, but also how we eat chewing our food is one of we are chronic chewers in the United States. And what I have to coach people to do kind of is, is to have at least 30 chews per bite of food. And one of the problems is processed foods, you don’t have to chew them, because it’s already processed for you. It’s pre-digested food, essentially.

So all the starch, heavy starch foods and things like that, that aren’t whole plant-based foods, you don’t have to chew very much. So you can choose, you can put it in your mouth, bite three, four or five times and swallow down and no problem. We need to be eating real foods, because not only is that a natural cleansing process for our teeth, but it stimulates the jaw structure and the jaw bone to form properly. So getting kids to do this from a very early age is essential.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, that’s a great, great answer. So as far as some of the challenges or some of the things that you remediate that you look at that are some of the topics you’ve talked about on your channel, and you’ll share that with our listeners. And we’ll put it in our show notes before we’re done. Three topics I guess we would talk well about I don’t know if you’ve probably talked about the third one, I didn’t have a chance to do as much Intel as I wanted. But you’re talking about root canals.

Right. So we’ll go there. We’re talking about mercury amalgams. And then I want to get into a few cavitations, and so forth. So maybe, can you talk tell us about root canals? In terms of taking them out? Leave them? I know, you mentioned that that’s 100% decision based on the patient and the doctor, but as the doctor says, what, what what what do you like, what do we need to consider and why is it harmful? And what yeah, just give us the ABCs, one, two threes on that.


Dr. Seth Gilson: So why it’s potentially harmful is because the anatomy of teeth is very complex, especially when you get into the root structure. So Root Canal, which may you people may or may not know is that you basically take out the main nerve of the tooth, and then you have to fill that with a biocompatible material to leave what’s essentially a dead tooth in the jaw.

Now, the problem is, there’s a lot of like I said, the anatomy is very complex. So there are a lot of different canals in the teeth that we can’t properly clean an instrument. With the technology that we have. Now. They’re, they’re using different Sonic technologies and lasers and things like that to try and become able to sterilize teeth completely. But at this point, we can’t, we’re not able to guarantee the sterilized teeth 100%.

And then that so some form of tissue or bacteria is left behind in the tooth to fester. And there’s no more blood supply to the tooth because that’s been cut off when the root canal is done. So the immune system can’t go and fight that area of the body so infection, festers with anaerobic bacteria generally. And they create endotoxins, a lot of times, that create a dental abscess or an infection in the jaw. And how that is going to affect me versus you versus somebody else is very unique to the individual.

Some people don’t even know it, I mean, some people are also much more in tune with their health, and we have a different toxic burden, so to speak. So I might have my jar of toxic burden might be a gallon, whereas yours might be a quart. So you wouldn’t be able to handle as many issues and inflammation going on in the body as mine might be able to. So how that’s going to result in I mean, these types of infections has been having been linked to certain types of cancers Alzheimer’s disease to thyroid disorders.

I mean, there’s just a plethora of different things that have been linked to root canals and what can happen from these types of infections that are left when not done properly. Now, is that every single root canal No, some, I mean, how do we check for these things? Ideally, now it’s in my view, the standard of care should be using a CT scan 3d imaging to be able to see what’s going on in the person’s jaw. And generally, if there are no signs, no symptoms, no nothing going on.

Most of the time, I’d say we can leave it alone in those types of circumstances because we also have to live with it, we have to live in the real world too. Not everybody can just, you know, come in and start, some people have four or five root canals. Some people can’t either or either don’t want to, for whatever reason, or can’t afford to just have all these teeth taken out just because they.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Be an implant I’m sorry, interrupt. So if you have a root canal that you’re revising, you’re just replacing the entire like, there are so many questions I have. So what are you doing to revise the root canal?


Dr. Seth Gilson: So if there’s an infection with a root canal, what you do essentially at that point is you can choose to have the root canal redid, which I would just never recommend because the success rate is substantially lower than what just doing it in the original that for the first time.

And the alternative is taking the tooth out. To clean out the entire infection, we use ozone at the office as an anti-microbial as well. And then generally, in bone grafting the area, we use something called PRP, which is the patient’s blood that we spin in a centrifuge, and it concentrates the patient’s healing cells in the body into a little membrane.

And we put that over the extraction site and you let that heal. Then later on, you can choose to leave it, which I don’t generally recommend, you can also have a dental implant placed, or you can have something removable place. But the ideal situation is to have a dental implant because that’s the closest thing you can get to natural teeth.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Gotcha. Thank you. So just to back up, why would someone need the root canal in the first place? What went wrong?


Dr. Seth Gilson: So the nerve became damaged irreversibly in some way or another? Whether it’s through a cavity through trauma, fractures, or something like that.


Dr. Joel Rosen: So it’s typically a cavity, right? If there’s is that the majority of the reason someone’s going to need.


Dr. Seth Gilson: A root canal? I would say yes because a lot of times the tooth fractures because there was a cavity that wasn’t treated. Right.


Dr. Joel Rosen: And that could be secondary, not just eating sugary foods, but because of minerals and density and fluoride. And so as far as when you said cleaning the instrument, you’re saying the things that you go in there to do the root canal? Is that what you’re saying? That you’re not able to disinfect the instrument that you’re using? Or you’re not eight when you say instrument you’re not able to? When do when you remove the root?


Dr. Seth Gilson: When I mean instrument, I mean, we use the instruments, but I was talking about instrumenting in the tooth, so we’re not able to completely sterilize the internal environment of these root canals. 100%, right. Are there?


Dr. Joel Rosen: Now you also mentioned biocompatible. What biocompatible materials? Yeah, I mean, what’s the difference between just a regular not bio biological dentist and a traditional dentist with the materials that they’re using?


Dr. Seth Gilson: So a lot of the fit just for example, well, fluoride, and mercury amalgams. I mean, some people still place metal fillings and mercury amalgam fillings in people’s teeth, which is astonishing to me, but they still do it. And Mercury is a neurotoxin.

Fluoride is a neurotoxin, and fluoride is in definitely most composite, resin-filling materials. It is something that gets released over time. Well, so the material is placed, it’s cured, it’s put it’s hard and it’s in the tooth. And over time, they figured out ways to have fluoride slowly leach from that material to help stabilize to stabilize the tooth from what they say. Now, again, fluoride is a neurotoxin.

If you ask these reps in these companies, how well do you know how much fluoride is released from these and for how long? Do they have no idea? And if and the ones that do require you to sign a nondisclosure agreement to tell you the information?


Dr. Joel Rosen: Interesting. So okay, so as far as are you? How are you when you do is it that 3d Columbian X-rays that you’re talking about are the gold standard? And then are you seeing sort of silhouettes, pockets of dark spots that wouldn’t suggest infections?

How are you determining the gold standard of Yup, it’s infected, we need to do something about it or No, it’s not or your toxic load is not that bad as mine what else goes into deciding that like when you do the like, when you do the X-ray, how do you determine?


Dr. Seth Gilson: Yeah, what we do is, we always have a radiologist, a trained radiologists read these reports are creating reports. So they create reports and we oh, we review the pictures as well. And a lot of time Once you just you can see the infection, either an infection or a spacing between the tooth in the bone, meaning there’s some sort of inflammation there. And sometimes there’s not. And then again, it’s just something to watch.

And if there are no signs of anything going on, then it’s something that we just monitor every three to five years. Because, look, we’re three-dimensional objects. If we just take a regular x-ray, that’s a two-dimensional picture of what’s going on in the CT scan seat, we can see things in 3d. And you can create slices, where you can see exactly what’s going on in different layers, both the width and height of the tooth.

So you can see not only if there’s an infection, but where it is and how big and where it’s extended to if it’s affecting the sinus if it’s close to a nerve, things like that. And that’s what I was also talking about before when we create a health team. So yes, some people might have an abscess, they could have had an abscess there for years and not known it.

But how is that affecting your overall health? That’s what we were talking about before with the toxic burden. That’s where the health team comes into play where we would have someone see a functional medicine like a functional medicine doctor like yourself, and then you run bloodwork. And you can see what else is going on in the body. What else is causing inflammation? Or are there any other diseases or disorders or imbalances that the patient might have? Most people a lot of times aren’t even aware that they have imbalances going on.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Right, right? Yeah, some of my toughest patients where we’ve done everything like that, okay, there’s gotta be something I always look at, we gotta go look at your mouth now, right? Because that’s a major problem. How much? How often when we talk about cavitations?

I would imagine that’s very similar to cavitation, only defined as when you pull the extract of the wisdom teeth, and there are pockets of fluid. Or could that even be cavitation? Where there has been a root canal? And there are signs on a 3d x-ray, that that’s the problem. Is that what cavitation is?


Dr. Seth Gilson: Yeah, it’s basically what happens is when any tooth, it doesn’t have to be a wisdom tooth, but a tooth is removed, and essentially, dead tissue remains and builds up and becomes almost like a fluid and gel-filled pocket in the bone. And that the body kind of Ward’s off and just kind of tries to keep in in this in that area of the jaw. But yeah, it doesn’t have to be from necessarily a wisdom tooth.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Can it be from a root canal or not? A root canal tooth, yeah. root root canal tooth can have a pocket of fluid that would be defined as cavitation.


Dr. Seth Gilson: So cavitation is like once a tooth is already missing, there’s this radio radiopacity area in the jaw. So basically, it looks like there’s an infection where there are no other teeth around it or anything like that. I see I see.


Dr. Joel Rosen: But it would be very similar in terms of physiology, that where the root canal was done, that there wasn’t sterilization, and there was a lot of festering buildup of anaerobic microbes that it creates the same issues that cavitation would, or they looked at similarly are not really.


Dr. Seth Gilson: Not, they’re not looked at. Similarly. It’s, it’s different because a lot of times when you leave necrotic tissue in, in the jawbone, it’s not that’s why when we remove teeth or do any kind of surgeries, the entire area needs to be properly cleaned, not just the soft tissue, but also the bone around it that was warding off that infection is generally dead too.

So when you leave that behind, that’s where this kind of area of cavitation can be conformed, because there’s no fresh and healthy blood supply to the area. So the immune cells can’t help heal that part of the body. So it’s similar to root canals, but it’s a little bit different.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Right. I know I appreciate what I get now after talking to you, and I appreciate it. Having dexterity and being good with your hands and having a good skill set would matter as a dentist, right? Because you’re doing these precision-like maneuvers, I guess I mean, just like any profession, there are great, great stars, and there are not so great stars, right? I would imagine that that happens all the time.


Dr. Seth Gilson: I would imagine so. So I mean, obviously some people have better manual or hand-eye coordination and better dexterity than others.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Right. So as far as just we won’t go too long, but as far as mercury amalgams are, would you recommend in every instance that someone has an amalgam? That’s mercury that they shouldn’t have in there?


Dr. Seth Gilson: What I’ll say is I would never have one in my mouth.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yes. Why is it sort of a taboo subject?


Dr. Seth Gilson: I don’t know. I honestly don’t know why. Because there’s nothing It doesn’t improve your health in any way. You know that mercury is a known neurotoxin. And there’s again, like on some, there’s plenty of research showing how mercury vapor is released from these fillings when there’s any sort of X excess heat created. So when you’re having hot coffee, if you’re grinding and chewing your teeth commonly, I mean, you’re creating friction, which creates heat. And that is going to release mercury vapor. How much over how long? I mean, it varies for the individual, but breathing in these things is the worst way to become exposed to them.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, but why is it taboo, though? You didn’t answer that, like, I mean, yeah.


Dr. Seth Gilson: I mean, I guess it’s taboo because it’s been used for so long. Because these things that it’s been used for decades. And the FDA, to the FDA, just a year and a half ago, just now started coming out in the middle, the minute in the middle of a pandemic saying that certain people, certain individuals, pregnant women, people that want to get pregnant people, women that are breastfeeding, people with kidney disease, people with other chronic illnesses, people with neurocognitive, neurocognitive disorders should not have these types of feelings place.

Now, why is that? Why it’s so there’s some sort of there’s become some sort of recognition. And I think people in these organizations are inching closer to saying, Alright, we’re not going to use this anymore. Everything else is better. But I don’t know if there’s ever going to be like, Oh, these things caused all these problems. This is why we’re not going to use it anymore. But they’re just inching away from using them.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, I get it. But you know, 88, if not more percent of Americans are metabolically unhealthy. And I think you could extend it to 88% or more, should not be having that exposure. And I agree with you, too. I think it’s a little bit of cognitive dissonance. If I was a dentist for 50 years, and I was very dogmatic and didn’t want to think about myself kind of making problems worse. I could either change my belief or, or change my behavior. Right. And I guess the belief is to somewhat justify and I think also to there’d be a lot of fallout in terms of admitting wrongdoing, right, with all the people that have had sons. Unfortunately, that happens. And thank you for being forthright with your approach and being diplomatic about attune. So I appreciate that. So as far as oral microbiome goes, Why is that important? And how can we maximize our oral microbiome? You know, or at least not maximize? But make it as healthy as possible?


Dr. Seth Gilson: Yeah, so the oral microbiome, and the gut microbiome has become one of the biggest research topics in the world, in the past decade or so. And, that one of the reasons why is that we discovered that about 50% of the DNA in our body is bacterial. So that impacts our health, like the health and the balance of the bacteria in our body impacts our health directly, and as well as indirectly.

So the microbiome is all the microorganisms and microorganisms that make up a particular area advice. So there’s the oral microbiome, you have a nasal microbiome, your lungs have their microbiome, your brain has a microbiome, and then the gut. So the guts, the mouth, all the way through to the other end. And there are different makeups as you as you go down.

And as far as how we can optimize it, everybody’s everybody has a unique microbiome like everybody has a unique fingerprint, but there is a lot of overlap. So again, there’s still a lot of research going into this, how we can optimize things. Some of the best things we can do are oral hygiene, practice great oral hygiene practices is so so so important, just because our diets are not optimal. Even if you’re eating a majority of plant-based foods. It’s the nutrition density in a lot of our foods these days isn’t what it once was. So proper nutrition, proper oral hygiene, proper going to the dentist, and when.


Dr. Joel Rosen: You say proper oral hygiene, so I didn’t grow up What do you mean flossing? brushing.


Dr. Seth Gilson: Flossing every day every night before you brush and brushing twice a day? A lot? No floor?


Dr. Joel Rosen: No fluoride, no fluoride toothpaste, right? Is there? Is there access to a lot of those? I mean, there are specific brands that you can get now that go out of your way that doesn’t have them that you like that you recommend?


Dr. Seth Gilson: Yes, there’s so the one that I use myself is a brand called Roswell and that’s what we use in the office. And there’s another brand that’s all I’ve heard is also really good called Boca. And these two brands, they’re natural ingredients and they had their main active ingredient is something called Hydroxyapatite. And hydroxyapatite is a natural compound found in our body that makes our teeth and bones hard.

And this is actually through research that has been shown to remineralize and help with sensitivity, better than fluoride. And it’s safer. Because it’s not toxic at all. It’s a natural compound. Right? Right. So all oral microbiome, right?


Dr. Joel Rosen: Gotcha. And do you recommend some kinds have activated charcoal or there are rinses with ozone? Things like that? Do you ever recommend those as well or not so much?


Dr. Seth Gilson: Mouthwash is one of the biggest problems when it comes to oral microbiomes. You want to never use alcohol-based mouthwash, anything that says it’s antimicrobial is just killing everything in your mouth, generally speaking. So the counter mouthwash and stuff I would never really recommend. I know Riceville has an all-natural mouthwash. I’m not sure about bokeh. But those things will all impact the oral microbiome.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, there’s also a lot of ozonated stuff, too. What’s your thought process on that?


Dr. Seth Gilson: So if you’re going to use something regarding ozone, you have to work with a practitioner that knows how to use ozone. Now, there are some things that you can get over the counter, like ozone gels and things like that. But I don’t it depends. It just depends on where you’re getting them from, and what source you’re getting them from.

So I would, I would always suggest getting it from your biological dentist if you’re going to use an ozone gel. And like, for example, we use ozone, water, and ozone gas in the office every single day. But you have to work with a trained practitioner that knows how to properly administer and use these things.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Right, yeah, I have a podcast that I interviewed someone on that gave me some insight. And I always like to talk to professionals to get their insight as well. So I can talk to you more and more. There are so many things that I want to get into maybe we’ll have a part two if you’re open to that, but I appreciate your time, Seth, as far as the question I always like to ask people on my show is knowing what you know now versus what the bright eyed and bushy tailed Seth may not have known back then what would you have told yourself that would have helped you with your health journey in terms of just being healthier, more proactive, dealing with life stress? Any type of health issues? What would you have told yourself now, then that you know now?


Dr. Seth Gilson: I think the one probably one of the most inter instrumental things that I’ve I’ve come to understand is that phrase know thyself. And I feel once we learn to go within and learn about ourselves, we can better understand and show up in the world around us.

And that is what led me that that the start of that journey is what kind of led me down this path to becoming and, constantly wanting to become the best version of myself.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah. that’s a great answer. It’s kind of along the lines of what I said were you know, the cognitive dissonance when there’s when you don’t know yourself, and you’re acting out of alignment with what sort of resonates with you, that creates a lot of internal stress, right? So the more you’re authentic, and you you’re not hypocritical and you practice what you think.

Right? And there’s not any incongruency between that, then it’s happening. Have you felt like there’s a shift in your health? You haven’t you’re not as burnt out anymore. Like you were at the start of COVID and stuff like that.


Dr. Seth Gilson: For sure. 100 100% I mean, I come into the office every day, feeling more energized. And I leave feeling more satisfied because of it.


Dr. Joel Rosen: That’s great. So how do people find out more about what you do you have your own YouTube channel you practice in South Florida? Give us some insight on where to find you.


Dr. Seth Gilson: Yes, so you can find me on Instagram it’s mindful that Dr. The YouTube channel is the art of mindful medicine. And I have a website called www dot mindful dot doctor and then the Office website is www our holistic dentist.com All right.


Dr. Joel Rosen: I’ll make sure I put those in the notes as well. And I will say like out loud to keep myself accountable. I have some major dental issues that I have to go see Dr. Seth with and I would love to be showcasing my journey. I still have mercury amalgam comes in my mouth. And for some reason, I’ve been the doctor, not the patient.

So it’s time to switch that up and showcase my journey. So you’ll have to keep me accountable. Now that I’ve broadcasted that to the millions of millions of people that watch this, so super excited to talk to you. So thank you so much for all the information you provide any last words of wisdom that you want to share?


Dr. Seth Gilson: No, I just want to thank you, I’m grateful for the opportunity to come and talk and just share my experiences and what I’ve learned, and what I’m continuing to learn. And just to stay grateful for where we are, what we have, and the wonderful lives that we’re living.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah. We, after our last podcast, we talked about maybe being able to help each other because your chocolate in my peanut butter, you know, can work well together in terms of looking at what else can someone do besides doing these safe removals and, and being able to get their oral microbiome in check. There may have already been lots of challenges that are impacting their, energy production, and their ability to detox, then they have these genetic susceptibilities that make these things worse, but from my point of view, the ones that aren’t responding what should be typically Okay, we got we shot probably should have started with the mouth and what’s going on.

But usually, it’s one of those things that doesn’t get addressed right away. And you’ll see the combination of our work together really improve the lives of a lot of people. So thank you so much, Seth, and I look forward to our next conversation.


Dr. Seth Gilson: Yeah, me too. Thanks, Joe. I appreciate it. Thanks.

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