Dr. Joel Rosen: Alright, hello, everyone and welcome back to another edition of your adrenal fix where we teach exhausted and burnt-out adults the truth about adrenal fatigue and fatigue and exhaustion in general, and how to get their health back. And this is part three with my buddy Don Moxley. He’s the director and applied science and brand development at longevity labs in the US.
And he’s dedicated to helping people live a vibrant, fulfilling life and using his background as an athlete and sports scientist instructor to help educate people on the science of basically a toughie, G, and longevity, and we got a couple of new things going on in Don’s world. So I invited Don back to have a conversation and for you to listen in over our shoulder. So, Don, thanks so much for being here. Once again.
Don Moxley: My pleasure. Dr. Joel loves spending time with you. We’re going to be down in Florida for Christmas. So we will have worked our way from the far northwest. We were in Blaine Washington about three weeks ago. And had I messed up because we got a picture up next to it’s called the Peace Arch, which is right on the US-Canadian border right there on the Pacific.
And then the next week, I was down in San Diego. And I was about an hour from the southwest border. But I didn’t get a chance to go down and get that picture. But my wife and I are talking about maybe going down to Key West when we’re out there. Just go ahead and get the pictures in all four corners.
Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, you’ll have to go back to the bottom there and San Diego and get that one again. Just say prove that you did it.
Don Moxley: There you go. I mean, you know, that’s it’s all about proof. Right?
Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, you have to you can’t just say it you got to do you got to prove it. So. So we had the conversation a little bit before we got started about just how your life has changed. And in our last couple of interviews, you tell us about the different phases of your life and how you’re headed into that sort of that last third or the let’s call it the back nine in terms of doing things differently and to your plan. Maybe we can start with that. And then just Springboard with What’s New in education and what you’re teaching.
Don Moxley: Back nine, but I’m playing 27 holes drill.
Dr. Joel Rosen: Right, right. Yes.
Don Moxley: Well, yeah, it’s, it’s been interesting. I don’t remember when on our last podcast, we started our journey. But back in my daughter was finishing up grad school, and she was living with us. She moved out on January 2 of this year. By January 21. My wife and I have sold our house, we bought a 42-foot fifth-wheel trailer. And we started traveling in May. We just spent almost five months out west of Colorado, Utah, Wyoming, Montana, and Washington. We’re working our way back. We’re talking today. We’re back in central Ohio today, as we talk to you. But Sunday I’ll be in North Carolina. We’ll be there for Thanksgiving, we’ll be down in Florida for Christmas. And then we’re going to start to work our way back out west.
But we decided we wanted to go find our next home. We want to wake up in the morning and drink our coffee, looking at the mountains. But you know, I didn’t want to I don’t want to buy a home office Zillow. I want to go figure out where we’re Where did where do we find a spot to fix our lifestyle? So that’s what we’re doing. We’re off on an adventure trying to find letting our next home find us.
Dr. Joel Rosen: Right and at the same time, it’s you’re working as well. And I think it’s a really good segue into as we talk about stress and the impact that it has on the body, and how we can determine if the stress is helping us or hurting us. And I guess is a good sort of intro into what’s new in your world. You go and you lecture for the company that you work for. And I’m sure you have new topics of conversation and new product launches. So let’s get kind of caught up on where you are there.
Don Moxley: Yeah, the big thing that happened, Joel is that so we launch longevity labs a little over two years ago. And during that launch, there is a podcaster by the name of Dave Asprey that featured us and we took off it was a really good feature for us. And when you back then when you subscribe to longevity labs, our product sperm and I in life, and we can talk a little bit more about that because we’ve got a little bit more research along the way. But you got an invitation to have a phone call with me so I wound up having telephone calls with I don’t know 700 800 People. Now Asprey is an aura ring HRV promoter.
I believe he’s on their advisory board. And what we found Joe was probably 80% of the people I was talking to had aura rings or they were you see some type of HRV measurement device of those that had it 80% Didn’t know what the hell to do with it. I mean, they, they bought it, they thought it was cool, but they hadn’t quite figured it out. So this has been an HRV is one of my specialties. That’s one of the things I zeroed in on. When I was a sports scientist at Ohio State, you know, we were able to use it as a tool to predict success. And it’s, it’s as much a tool for predicting health, as it is predicting success.
You know, you open the show talking about adrenal burnout. We have adrenal burnout when we have too much sympathetic stress. We’re not managing it. Well. We have our adrenals that are overhyped, and they wear themselves out. Well, part of that is being able to deal with adrenal stress, being able to deal with sympathetic and parasympathetic boosts.
When we’re doing that our HRV measurements will improve. And you know that at the end of the day, that’s what we’re looking for. Now, here’s one of the challenges that we have, when we talk to people, a lot of people talk about struggling with sleep. They’ll talk about not being able to necessarily, you know, they have a racing brain, there’s a lot of things that go into this, that we fix with things like meditation and so forth.
Well, you know, when I left Ohio State, one of my I moved to Florida and I worked in the cannabis business because back then I had a very good friend who had worked in a wearable company with he said, What do you know about HRV and, and cannabis or THC and I said, I don’t know anything. My athletes are all NCAA athletes. And, you know, they, they we kick them off the team if they test positive. But then at the same time, the work we’re doing, I’m getting calls from some pro coaches saying, Hey, have you looked at this THC thing yet?
And I thought, okay, there’s something here I need to figure out so I went and took a dove headfirst into the deep end of the pot pool, and started selling weed in South Florida for one of the licenses. One of the licensed groups down there and started learning and, Joel here’s the first thing I learned. You know, I’ve taught Exercise Sciences. I’ve taught the Exercise Sciences for 35 years now. We have part of our central nervous system that’s called the endocannabinoid system, the internal cannabinoid system. It’s part of our nervous system. endocannabinoid system should be chapter two.
When we teach exercises one-on-one, it should be the second thing we teach. Because, you know, so much of exercise is based on I want to lose weight, I want to look pretty, I want to listen, some of us are never going to be pretty no matter how much we workout. And I’ve accepted that and my wife loves me for who I am, and we’re good to go. But I can’t lose enough weight to become Brad Pitt. You know, just, you know, just not there. And in fact, losing weight is a bad exercise goal. It’s a really bad exercise goal.
We’ve been failing at this for decades. But what exercise does do is it triggers the production of a molecule in your system that’s called anandamide. anandamide is an endo cannabinoid. It’s a molecule that your body produces, they call it the Zen molecule. It’s a molecule that your body produces that improves neural communication and looks at the enemy and promotes parasympathetic tone. So the reason you should exercise is because of a lot of longevity things a lot of brain-derived neurotrophic and you makes you smarter, but also you produce anandamide.
Well, as we’ve worked for longevity labs, and as we’ve looked at the role of sperm or dine in the autophagy pathways, what we’ve learned, you know, when probably the last time I talked to you, we were referring to sperm tonight as a calorie restriction, mimetic. It mimics fasting. Well, based on some research that’s going on that will be published by the end of the year, we’re prepared to move sperm dying down into the cell, we can now say that it is a key molecule in the autophagy pathway.
Without sperm iodine, you don’t get a toffee G. It’s not a stimulant. It’s a key molecule. Now, what’s that mean to what we’re talking about today? Well, what we found is that there are some essential molecules that we adapted that we can bring into our system to help physiological processes. This physiological process we’re talking about is related to HRV as being able to monitor sympathetic versus parasympathetic stimulus. We listen sympathetically is easy to come by, you know, there’s lots of paper lions out there.
Most people are pretty wrung out. And then when you when they’re not exercising when they’re not sleeping when they’re not doing the key things that create anandamide? Well, it starts to head downhill, and you get that cascading effect. Well, you know, that the people at longevity labs came to me and said, so if you’re going to create a nutritional supplement to improve HRV, what would it look like? And this is something I’ve been working on, you know, I, you know, I’ve, I’ve tried to give this recipe away many times, to many manufacturers, and no one bid on it. So when my company came to me and said, Let’s do this, I said, Okay, let’s get this formulated.
So, what we’re talking about is a product called HRV. Plus, longevity Labs is launching a sub-brand. That’s called the mode and method mode method. If you go to mode method.com, put your email in there. And you will be notified when we launch we expect to launch at the beginning of December. Now, anytime that you’re launching new products some issues got to go with that. So I can’t promise it but that’s what we’re shooting for. So if there’s a listener interested in this, go to mode method.com There’ll be a window pop up, put your email and you’ll be notified immediately.
And on checkout when it when we do notify you on checkout, there will be a code look at the show notes web for a code for Joel that will give you a little bit of a discount too but mode method.com and the product is called HR v plus, it is a combination of cannabinoids so we use CBD what a lot of people have heard about CBD, but we use it in a much higher concentration than what most people are used to. What I believe is the really valuable molecule is CBD it’s the acid version of CBD. It’s what the plant produces.
You know, CBD is largely a byproduct of the cannabis industry creating adult-use rec products. It’s kind of a byproduct of that. CBD A is what comes right out of the plant and CBD does not bond to any receptors in your body. It doesn’t bond to CB, it doesn’t bond to CBD. I take that back and do bonds and pain receptors, but it doesn’t bond with any receptors in the endocannabinoid system. CBDa does. So CBDa is an active participant in this in the endocannabinoid system. And then we combine the cannabinoids with what’s called a dietary cannabinoid that’s called beta-caryophyllene.
Beta-caryophyllene has an outstanding profile of not just bonding the CB one well, what it does is it boosts anandamide, which bonds to CB one, and it bonds to CB two, which improves inflammation and lowers pain. But it also bonds to a host of pain-reducing receptors and lowers inflammation, it is a wonderful product. So we have this great combination, we call it a terpene. It’s also been referred to as a
dietary cannabinoid, because literally, it’s so close to the cannabinoids, chemically, but it’s produced in other plants, so they don’t call it a cannabinoid. And then Joel, we take that combination, and we put it into a DHA, EPA Omega three oil. But the Omega three oil is also enhanced with what’s called specialized pro-resolution mediators. So we call these es PMS. And an S Pm is the biologically available Omega three that resolves the inflammation pathway. So when anytime that we have inflammation, it’s going to lower HRV HRV. And inflammation goes hand in hand. So if you have low HRV, you’ve probably got an inflammation thing going on. Now, how do you deal with inflammation?
Well, we get our omega threes up, first of all, because you know a lot of inflammation is the byproduct of too many Omega sixes, we got to get them balanced. But we can go ahead and get some and usually pain with that. So we’re throwing a bunch of NSAIDs on top of that, which is not letting the inflammation process resolve itself because we’re blocking too many pathways. Well, we’re putting SPMs right in the product. We’re putting that finalized piece in there. And, the combination of the cannabinoids and the biologically available omega threes has turned out to be a pretty powerful tool. You know, you’ve been able to use the product for a couple of months now. We’ve had it out there in sample form with a lot of people.
We’re getting great feedback on sleep. The first thing people talk about is I took this and I slept like a baby that night and it’s To the point now, you don’t get that kind of a robot Tussin sleepiness, it’s not that barbiturate base kind of sleepiness, you, you get good natural sleep, you crash out at night. If you have to get up during the night, you get up you can go right back to sleep and you wake up in the morning and you’re not groggy.
So, and I and I think what’s happening here I’m pretty excited about this is that we’re supplying the micronutrients that are necessary for the endocannabinoid system to operate appropriately to, to restore homeostasis to our endocannabinoid to ours, our, our nervous system, the portion of our nervous nervous system, the autonomic portion of our nervous system, establishing that back, so we’ve been pretty happy with our sampling program, we’re getting ready to start a couple of research studies with this with a couple of wearable groups. So we’re excited about the product and how it’s going so far.
Dr. Joel Rosen: No, listen, that’s awesome lots to unpack and see the different rabbit holes that you’ve gone down dawn with the endocannabinoid system, and the CB, CB, one, CB, CB, D two are, there’s a lot of science behind it, which I don’t quite understand myself. And what I want to try to do is combine how sperm iodine is now not just an I guess it’s a cofactor, if you will, for Tophet G is that accurate to say?
Don Moxley: We’re calling it a critical mechanism in the autophagy pathway. And, where we go back to Joe, we did it, we did this, there was a study that was done in Austria. So if you take a mouse and you fast it you get a toughie G, if you take a spermidine knockout mouse, and the faster you get nothing, okay, so by knocking sperm and out out of the autophagy pathways in mice, it rocked the system. So again, I don’t think it’s fair to call them a medic anymore.
So that’s been one of the exciting parts of our work with sperm iodine. And, you know, listen, what one of the reasons we’re in this space we had a lot of our users tell us, they saw an improvement in their HRV with sperm at night, okay, and so and when you look at a tapa G and inflammation, anytime that you have high inflammation, you probably have low autophagy.
Most of the time, when we’re able to boost the tapa G, we lower inflammation, and that link of inflammation to the autonomic nervous system to what we’re measuring with HRV is interesting. So all we’re doing with HRV plus is coming in the backside of that autonomic nervous system. And making sure the basic micronutrients are there. So your body can achieve homeostasis, so you get a good sleep so that you can start this process of recovery. So we can, so we can lower sympathetic, because anything, anytime we have bad sleep, and we have inflammation, we have a sympathetic bump and you’re in your and your adrenals are going to pay the price. The only way you can stop that is lower that adrenal stress, and increase the parasympathetic response. And that’s what we’re trying to do with HRV. Plus.
Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, it’s just interesting gone, how all of this longevity, health optimization, a toffee, G growth factors, inflammation, immune dysregulation, they’re starting to become together like a symphony. And it’s not just throwing the crap against the wall and just hoping that everything sticks, it’s more done in a pattern or more of a, I guess, orchestrated way.
And so I guess that’s a good way to put it. Yeah. So with that being said, again, just to summarize, we’re looking at people that would have a lot of stress in their life, a lot of to-do lists a lot of immune challenges, their cert rhythm, and their day, their tired at during the day, and they’re up at night, and they just don’t feel healthy. And ultimately, a big part of that is because they’re not getting into a toffee g where that helps to recycle their cells and clear that out.
And as a result, that can put too much sympathetic tone in the body, which lowers that HRV and creates almost a vicious cycle where the inflammation just feeds forward. So I guess the question is how, when you’re designing the studies, or even just recommending to your, your user or educating them, Are you starting to put together the orchestration down because I know Yeah, I guess that’s the question we can go with. Yeah,
Don Moxley: That’s as far as orchestrating on an individual basis, Joel? It’s difficult because, you know, listen, orchestration involves instruments, instruments can be tuned. So you can play if you’re trained and I’m trained, we can take the same instrument and get the same notes out of it. Okay? That’s not necessarily the same with the human body, you know, you’ve got to set genetics, I have a set of genetics, your environments, different my environments different. In the same way, the instrument may sound different, whether I’m in a room with a brick wall, or I’m in a concert hall, there’s certainly going to be a difference in environments.
So this is where we see HRV as a really important key molecule, it’s a key indicator. I believe it’s one of the most powerful key performance indicators there is. It tells you whether you have resiliency and whether you’re ready for the stress that comes.
So I love that. One of my other key performance indicators, personally, is watts per heartbeat. So I write up I love riding bicycles, I’ve had eight knee surgeries, so I don’t run anymore. So I ride bicycles, and I always ride. So we have a peloton in our rig. So we have a 42-foot fifth wheel. And one of the things when we decided on this life, we’re like, Okay, we have to have exercise with us.
And the hack. So you look over my right shoulder, you see my sauna, you look. On this side of me, you see my red light panel, you know, we designed our rigs so that we can have these key pieces. So one of my KPIs is watts per heartbeat. I know that as my wattage goes up on, on the peloton, and as my heart rate goes down at a given wattage, I’m getting the effect I want, I’m getting more power per heartbeat, my mitochondria are functioning, my red blood cells are there my systems are developing. And consequently, there’s an HRV benefit that goes with that, that when I’m at my highest fitness levels, I’m typically at my highest HRV levels. So again, HRV watts per heartbeat. For me, these are key performance indicators.
They’re, you know, I used to use key performance indicators back as an athlete, you know, how much can you squat? How much can you deadlift, things like that? I don’t use those as much I make sure and deadlift and squat and do those things.
But I don’t necessarily worry about it, is it 800 pounds? Or is it 700 pounds, I don’t worry about that. I haven’t been under a bar that had more than 300 pounds on it, and many, many years. So but my KPI is my HRV climbing because what I know, as we age, and as we move closer to death, when it relates to healthspan HRV drops, right before death HRV will be zero. The more I can push my HRV up, the farther I am away from death.
Dr. Joel Rosen: Right. Right. And I think that’s a good point gone in terms of not micromanaging the less important data points and seeing the more important movers the of the needle. And I like so back to maybe that aura ring user that didn’t know what to do now they are armed with, I guess, with longevity labs, products in the sperm iodine and the HRV plus division to take the thinking out of it and take the supplement and see the results is that.
Don Moxley: Well, I still think you have to think Listen, it’s your body. You’ve I mean, there’s not a doctor out there that’s brilliant enough to see you in their office once or twice a year, and give you the kind of feedback that you need to maximize your lifestyle. This is a completely 100% self-driven process. Listen, you know how you work, you know what you like, when you do on vacation. You know, there are certain things, you got to own your longevity, you got to own your performance.
Do you mean coaches can help? But at the end of the day, you got to have your performance indicators. And frankly, you know, when you have HRV working well, and you go out in let’s say you go out drinking with your friends one night, you’re gonna wake up and you’re gonna tank your HRV for a couple of days. Okay, I have found following HRV is the best tool I’ve ever seen for people to quit drinking because alcohol is brutal. You know, with my athletes we used to we would do 24 and 48-hour HRV studies on them. And I was able to demonstrate to my athletes going out and having four beers before going to bed. Got your sleep efficiency in half. Okay, so that four beers in eight hours of sleep was worth four hours of sleep, which isn’t enough.
Okay. So, for the first time, we had objective data that I can show to my athletes. You know, listen, you go back to Rocky you know women weaken the legs you don’t drink before, you know, there’s all these these these wives tales now out, you pay a price when you drink, period, end of the story. I have, it’s, I hardly drink anymore on occasion I have, you know, I’ll have something in an event or something like that, but I rarely drink alcohol anymore. You know, the benefit of alcohol, they used to say was in resveratrol.
That resveratrol benefit comes in the first few sips, rarely found at the bottom of the bottle. And you know, and the price you pay with the alcohol is significant. And I’ll tell you the other thing, frankly, if I feel like I want to introduce some intoxication into my life on the night, I do it with cannabis. I use cannabinoids because it does not crush my endocannabinoid system. I can I can enjoy that. I can wake up the next day and not be hungover. And excuse me. I can wake up the next day not being hungover and I’m able to function and have a good response from it doesn’t hurt me.
Dr. Joel Rosen: Right and we’re talking about THC at this level. Right?
Don Moxley: Yeah. Yeah. A little bit of THC, a lot of CBD, and a little THC. I think that’s where my sweet spots at.
Dr. Joel Rosen: Okay, okay, I got you. So for those that aren’t as sophisticated, they get a little bit paranoid because they don’t want to necessarily have the negative stigmas or if there still are with that, maybe sort of unpack that Don with the HRV plus, and what CBD is because I think some people still aren’t knowledgeable about that. Sure.
Don Moxley: And that’s a great question. So when the cannabis plant produces its cannabinoids, they come in two large groups. One is called the car that’s the acid and ca when you decarboxylated it when you heat it and it loses the acid, it then becomes psychologically reactive it will bond to the CB one receptor, and that CB one receptor bonding THC causes intoxication.
That’s how you get high. Now CBD will not bond to the CB one receptor. CBD won’t bind to either CB one or CB two. binding the CB two does not create intoxication. It lowers inflammation and improves immunity. It works in a lot of the same pathways that autophagy works in. So when we designed our product, we designed our product there’s there it’s made from hemp, which has to be below point 3% THC by volume. So we pass all those rules there’s nothing in our product that will intoxicate you and but then again when people are using it the sleep has been off the scale it’s been you know it’s not asleep supplement, but it’s a supplement a lot of people are using for sleep.
Dr. Joel Rosen: Right and just so curious so let’s say like just for the argument’s sake if someone did have a dispensary and get THC and they took the HRV plus, the cannabinoids in there seem to cut somewhat of the euphoric intoxicant feeling of
Don Moxley: Not necessarily there’s a thing with THC, that’s called the entourage effect, where one plus one equals three. So you’ve got to be a little careful because everyone’s different, everyone’s systems a little different. So what we recommend is that if you do use THC, and you’re using HRV plus simultaneously, be careful to figure out how it’s going to work because that entourage effect, it’s talking about it could add a little more to it.
You want to make sure it’s not going to roll you up a little bit instead of rolling you down. Right? So So you got to pay attention. Anytime that you’re messing with cannabinoids, you got to pay attention to that everyone’s different and so their endocannabinoid systems are different.
Dr. Joel Rosen: Right and you know I hadn’t even anticipated talking to you about this but this was sort of a light bulb that just came on I remember texting you and asking your opinion on the way the CDA or what iifI forget what it’s called I’m not the THC and not the CBD but they have
Don Moxley: what is it? So So there are a lot of long chains cannabinoids there CBC CBG CBN mean, so cannabis Geral cannabinoid cannabidiol we’re not playing in that space. We have an extract that has a known CBD CBD and beta-caryophyllene blend. Those are the big three we’re going after. Whether we go down the sea EBG or CB N pathway at some point in time, I’m not sure we’re certainly going to look at some other combinations we’re working with some formulators from across the country, looking at other terpenes, other plant terpenes, and how they work. And you know, there’s some, there’s some pretty interesting like acetylcholine esterase inhibitors. Listen, if we can boost acetylcholine, that’s probably a pretty good thing.
And you can do that with some terpenes. So we’re exploring that. It is not in this product, this product we have designed strictly for this HRV plus. And again, we get that with the CBD CBDa and the beta-caryophyllene. All in the Omega threes, particularly with the SP PMS, the specialized pro-resolution mediators, which I’m, I’m excited to introduce to an audience that just isn’t that familiar with them. I love SPM. They’re wonderful tools. So we’re excited to get it in the product.
Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, for sure that and the resolvins. I was just listening to a DNA lecture by one of my mentors, and they’re going down the arachidonic paths, pathways, and they’re looking at platelet aggregation and thrombosis and some broke from you know, thrombosis, and just having upregulated stress response when you get these exposures, that you tend to put more inflammation into the bucket then, your counterpart and I think that that’s what you’re seeing nowadays, Dawn is you’re seeing a more favorable or unfavorable tendency when there’s inflammation to be inflamed, right. Are you seeing that as well, I mean, well has ever been?
Don Moxley: That’s what we’re talking about. I mean, so that arachidonic acid pathways coming from omega sixes and listen are inflammatory pathways are critical for success. They’re critical to life. Okay, you know, if there’s an assault on a cell, either from an infection or from a virus or physical damage, you need those cells to go into an inflammatory process, they swell up, they get heat, there’s temperature, they try to kill any internal bodies.
The problem is we have so many Omega sixes in our system, that we overproduce Omega six arachidonic acids, we have so few omega threes in our system, omega threes are typically driving the resolving pathways of inflammation, it’s the same enzymes. So when you take an NSAID, when you take an Advil or something like that, it’s interfering with the Cox two enzyme, which is lowering that that inflammation pathway from arachidonic acid via Omega six, but at the same time, it’s interfering that same Cox two pathway has to turn the omega three fats into the resolvins.
So, you know, listen, we know there’s pain, we know people are using NSAIDs, by getting the s PMS into the product with the Omega threes, all we’re doing is we’re boosting that resolve inside of the inflammatory pathway, which is going to yield an HRV response.
Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, it’s interesting, you know, it’s, it’s, you can also promote it, are you promoting it as a pain reducer as well? I mean, it could help produce. Yeah,
Don Moxley: Yes. The FDA would probably frown on that. So no, it’s a tool designed to raise HRV what we’re finding with our early studies is this you can’t fix HRV unless you fix sleep. Okay? If I don’t care what you do for the rest of your life if your sleep is broken HRV is hard to fix it’s critical. So one of the this has been one of the byproducts I frankly I didn’t expect this when we designed the product it’s you know it’s uh you know, listen even blind squirrel trips over and not every once in a while, and we kind of done that here.
But with the sleep that has come with this product we have been thrilled to death. And you know, Joel, it makes sense. If I want to raise HRV I have to get sleep fixed after no two ways about it. And then you add in the other things, you add in the other nutrients, you add in exercise, you add in quality, light, all those things that come with longevity and performance. And we get resolution of the inflammatory pathways, which is going to increase and lead to a parasympathetic tone, which is going to raise HRV
Dr. Joel Rosen: Have you looked at the stacking of which the sperm are dying to see if there’s like a study between? No, that’d be the thing to know. Right?
Don Moxley: I agree with you. I listen, there’s a lot of these things that again, the last time we spoke, we refer are in the sperm are dying as a calorie restriction mimetic in the, in the line of resveratrol and metformin and rapamycin? Well, now we’re looking at sperm nine as a key molecule. Okay? Again, I’m sure if you took a sperm iodine knockout mouse and you gave them Rapa myosin, there may not be a toffee G there because sperm nine is not in the system. So, you know, if you’re using rapamycin or if you’re using resveratrol, or if you’re using Metformin, in the absence of sperm, iodine autophagy is not improved.
And, again, that improved a tapa G is going to lower inflammation, it’s going to there’s going to be an improved, there’s going to be an improved HRV response just from that. But we’re coming, we’re coming back with the HRV plus as another tool to put in your toolbox to deal with this, the fact that we live in aquariums, we do not have us, the environments that we live in, are not consistent with the evolutionary pathway we took to get here. So part of what we have to do is we need to make sure we’ve got those key nutrients available so that we’re able to deal with the stress that comes with life.
Dr. Joel Rosen: Right? Absolutely. So as far as just a nice perk and plug to the longevity Labs is at no further investment. Did I get an increase of the reformulation of the higher potency in the sperm a dime, so maybe get a little idea as to why that came through?
Don Moxley: Yeah, we’re excited about that. So again, we’re always innovating. This is important for us. So what we’ve learned when we first started selling sperm and iron life, we sold it in a one-milligram dose. So two tablets, one milligram. That’s the reason we did that. That’s what the European Union told us we could sell. Along the way we’ve been, we’ve done more studies to show that it’s a safe supplement. We’ve done safety studies, the 20 milligrams a day.
European Union has approved us to sell up to 12 milligrams a day in products. Now, we don’t have anybody asking us for 12 milligrams, we do have people asking us for six milligrams. So we have a six-milligram spermidine Life product. You can buy 10 Day versions of that online, or through a physician, we sell 30 days because we think to Listen, that’s a big step up we need, we want to make sure there’s a healthcare professional in the middle of that decision.
But more importantly, we are a technology for extracting sperm iodine from wheat germ into what we call our cell vo product. So cell Vo is not just spermidine by itself. Right now if you go to if you go online and search sperm nine, you’ll see a lot of very high-dose sperm and egg products online. The problem is most of those products are synthetic experiments, which have never been tested in humans hasn’t been done. When you’re working with sperm and iron life, this cell vo product not only has the sperm Undine that’s in it that we talk about.
But the other polyamides are there too putrescine spermidine. They’re all there and they all work in concert. As well as we’ve improved our ability to extract cell vo we’ve been able to refine it more. So now we can get one milligram of sperm and iron-rich cell vo extract into one capsule. So our product went from one milligram-a-day dose to a two milligram-a-day dose.
So if you buy spermidine, now, it’s going to be a two-milligram per day dose. So we’ve been able to double the dosage, we’ve got some other stuff coming to so we have the six-milligram products available. We’re going to have some others coming along. So we’re constantly working to lower the cost of our product and improve lower the cost of our products and improve the concentration that you get as we move through.
Dr. Joel Rosen: Right. And I think when you and I talked that one of the lectures you are giving you are saying to like just sort of try a little bit at a higher dose for sleep. So I’m imagining that the higher concentration and the six milligrams coupled with HRV plus I mean, are you seeing those?
Don Moxley: We haven’t gotten there yet. We haven’t gotten there yet. Yeah,
Dr. Joel Rosen: it’s interesting. You know, I mean, listen, it sounds like it makes sense from my point of view when I work with people that are exhausted and burnt out. And they’re there you know, cell danger is deciding what’s most important for survival for short-term survival and not concerned about the long term. Circadian rhythms are upside down, hormones are imbalanced insulin is driving up mTOR they’re not able to get into Tov G, and they’re inflamed. And obviously, their HRV their parents, their sympathetic tone is, is dominating and they’re wired and tired and they’re not sleeping, right? So, being able to unpack all of that is the goal for I think providers, and nutrition formulators alike.
Don Moxley: And listen, what we’ve learned is that from a sperm iodine standpoint, and a toffee G, there’s not enough sperm iodine in the diets of Americans with the food that we consume, to support the level of autophagy that we need. That’s pretty clear. We expect suburbanites to eventually achieve vitamin status as an essential nutrient. So, you know, listen, this is one of the byproducts of industrial farming, the nutrients kind of drop out on those, we get a lot of plants, we get a lot of proteins, fats, and carbohydrates.
But we don’t get the micronutrients and spermidine is just turned out to be one of those micronutrients, that’s critical, that’s not in our industrial-produced food source. So you have to supplement it. And at the same time, when we look at the environment, are we getting effective levels of these molecules that support the stress of our autonomic system?
And again, what we’ve learned is that cannabis produces this wonderful molecule CBD the acid form of it. CBD is also good, it does some things, you know, it does some very positive things, but you gotta get the dosage higher than most people are consuming it. And then you roll that in with the beta-caryophyllene, which is a dietary cannabinoid, which has which enhances a whole nother set of receptors.
It’s been a great combination and gives you the ability to get into the fight, you know, and again, it’s a, we use the term fight, which is probably not the right word because the fight would be sympathetic. But the process of trying to get control of your autonomic nervous system, get control of your lifestyle, so that you’re able to get parasympathetic tone, you’re able to balance sympathetic versus parasympathetic, you’re able to work your way through the cycle. These are all valuable tools. Yeah,
Dr. Joel Rosen: just curious, as an aside, have you listened to polyvagal theory or read the polyvagal theory book?
Don Moxley: I have not read that one yet. But every time you and I talk, I wind up with a new book on my shelf. So
Dr. Joel Rosen: read that one I’ve just finished I just finishing it now. And it talks about basically polyvagal, three branches. So they have the unmyelinated, primitive reptilian below the diaphragm part of the vagus, and they have the myelinated above the diaphragm. And then, of course, they have the sensory which is 80%. Right. So it talks about how, if you think of it from an evolutionary standpoint, with the reptilian unmyelinated motor below the diaphragm, this was mostly mainly for fainting, feigning, or avoidance.
And then the next one in the hierarchical range was sympathetic, which was to, you know, fight or flee and get out of the way. But then the more mammalian one, which is myelinated, above the diaphragm, was more to once you felt safe, and you can regulate the sympathetic, that was allowing you to have community bonding because my Malians we thrive in connection and purpose and interesting, which is a good segue in terms of I think it you can’t just think of it as checks and balance like autonomic sympathetic, parasympathetic.
Yes, you can, but thinking of it in terms of that hierarchy, Don, I think that for people that would take this product and want to improve their sleep, and want to improve their HRV I think a lot of it on its own, like you can’t just you have to think still, like you said, right. But I think a lot of it also comes down to you know, relationships and having your creature comforts and having your infrared behind you and your saunas and being with your wife and being community and feeling safe. I don’t know how much that’s educated on longevity lat labs, you know, I guess, modus operandi.
Don Moxley: It hasn’t been but what’s been interesting for him, and this is a story I’ve told before, I think I’ve told him on your show, but when I was with the wrestling team at Ohio State, I walked into practice one day, and one of my wrestlers this kid’s a multiple time all American should have been a national champion, but during the COVID he was number one ranked guy here when they canceled national, so top-level wrestler and he said Coach Moxley said, he said, What would video games do to my HRV?
And I said, Luke, I said, here’s the problem. I said, your brain doesn’t know if that’s a real gun pointing at you. Or if that’s a fake gun coming at you through the screen, your brain just knows the gun. So he said, I had a hell. What is the, um, there’s a video game, I forget the name of it fortnight? He said I had a hell of a fortnight session. And my sleep was horrible. And I said, there you go, buddy. I said you’re starting to figure this out.
So, you know, I listen. These are the challenges the screens, listen, there are benefits, there are costs and benefits to everything. You know, you and I are using technology to communicate over distances. You know, listen, I would love to be in the room with you down there in Boca. But I can’t be I’m up here in Ohio right now. And we’re using technology to build community and to talk to our tribes.
But, but you know what, when it’s time to go to bed, you got to turn the screens off, you gotta get the blue, down. You’ve got to, you’ve got to anticipate this. And again, when you throw in the micronutrients that are necessary for a toffee G to work for our endocannabinoid system to adjust itself to get a parasympathetic tone. You know what? That’s the good thing?
Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, yeah. Just a segue to that book, it talks about the difference between playing with people and playing with games, and there is no, like really looking at someone’s face and trying to discern if they’re, you know, friend or foe and help us, you know, bond. And, interestingly, you said that. Also, too, I think like, to your point. It’s not I mean, taking the supplements and having the proper lifestyle, getting your circadian rhythm and trained and not having, you know, major demands and not enough supply. I guess the easy thing to do is get out of the way of nature, right? And give it what it needs and get taken away when it doesn’t.
Don Moxley: Yeah, listen, there’s no pill I can give you to take, that’s going to be able to adjust the effect of playing fortnight from 10 o’clock until two in the morning. Okay, right. Okay, when now there are some times you’ve got to work from 10 o’clock to two in the morning, hopefully, listen, shift workers, we know how difficult it is to be a shift worker, how throwing that circadian off it is, it is so hard to combat the effect of that.
But if you’re not a shift worker, and you have a choice as to whether you play a video game from 10 o’clock to two o’clock, you have to learn to make those choices. And you know, these are this is just part of you owning your life and making those decisions.
Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, it’s interesting, like the I think the art of doctoring has gone out of the window with the time constraints and what insurance pays for and it doesn’t pay for but even in a quick little console with someone and I started asking them what’s going on. It’s not rocket science, that their demand is so high and their supply is so low, it’s not and you need to look in the mirror and decide, okay, what can I start to slowly make some changes that I don’t expect to add another supplement to or a crazy whiz banks dietary approach to and expect to, you know, be a magic wand with I mean, look in the mirror and find out like what you’re doing.
The last thing I’ll say about the polyvagal to Dawn is it is very physiological, almost, it is primitive, and reflexive to have some of these withdraw or freeze or just do a life-saving behavior with major stress or trauma. And it’s not so much the trauma that messes them up. It’s the emotion associated with that Trump trauma or the meaning they put on it, right, what the author was talking about is if you can educate other doctors on not making their behavior wrong like it wasn’t wrong of you to faint or just to go with it or let yourself be traumatized.
Because that was what your body inherently did to save itself to preserve its life and you need to celebrate that and not put an emotional attachment to it. And then that way you can start. You can start from there in terms of getting back integrated and feeling safe instead of feeling what you did was wrong. And I think I mean, it’s just a little side note on On sympathetic, parasympathetic, you know.
Don Moxley: I absolutely agree with that. And I use an analogy from time to time. If you’re born in a rattlesnake pit, the only way you serve you survive is through hypervigilance. That’s, that’s all there is to it. But if I move out of my rattlesnake pit into a field of bunnies, okay? I’m still going to be hyper-vigilant. We know there’s a drop of anandamide in the amygdala, we know that hypervigilance.
And listen, we may not be born in rattlesnake pits, but we create trauma in our lifestyles at a level far beyond whether it’s sexual or poverty or abuse, or physical trauma, trauma, trauma is real, it adjusts you, it adjusts you, your nervous system, it adjusts your autonomics. And, again, this is the difference. You and I may be the same age, we may have similar, you know, similar education, similar behaviors, but based on the trauma that we’ve come through, we have to do things differently, it’ll affect us differently. And again, no judging is less. This is one of the cool things I’ve learned.
The top of top three religious orders going on, when we look at Christianity, Judaism, or, or Hinduism, and Muslim. They all reject judgment, you judge, there’s a cost to it. And you have to recognize that. So this is one of the things I love about good religion when it’s practiced. Now, growing up a Southern Baptist, we judge quite pretty well. And frankly, I’ve moved away from my religious practice to a more spiritual practice. You know, I grew up Southern Baptist, and my wife grew up Catholic. So between guilt and judgment, we had them covered. And a big part of what we’ve had to do is move away from some of these religious practices, and focus on our spiritual beliefs. Which means rejecting the judgment. And that’s a big part of it. So I completely agree with you.
Dr. Joel Rosen: Well, I mean, it’s apropos to what we’re talking about, really, because we’re talking about heart rate variability, and you cannot be dominated by stress hormones and be very adaptive. And that doesn’t come out of the bottle or diet, but it comes out of your thought processes, your emotions, your mindfulness, all of the above. Yeah, great conversation, Don, as far as what’s next, I always like to ask what’s, what’s next for you. Or what little life lessons have you learned since the last time that we talked?
Don Moxley: Well, so what’s next for us as we’re getting this project launched? You know, we’re trying to get our company through Black Friday, you know, so we’re a week, you know, we’re a week out of thanksgiving. So Black Friday’s a week from now, we got to get through that we’re gonna launch mode and method and HRV plus the beginning of December. During that time, I traveled to several conferences and speak and present at a couple of conferences.
So we’re gonna get this launch. But at the same time, I’m starting to research other terpene-based therapeutic properties, you know, so we’re working with some other companies. We’re working with other formulators to look at, okay, what can we do to improve the human experience?
Again, I’ve talked about this before, I have a personal mission of helping individuals understand change, that leads to the reduction of suffering, and the promotion and the betterment of, well, people, that’s kind of what I do daily. So, you know, a big part of this, you know, understanding when when when Daniel deeds called me two and a half years, almost three years ago and said, What do you know about a toffee G? And I said, I have a passive understanding about he said, What do you know about sperm and I’m, like, never heard of it. So you know, doing that dive into sperm iodine and understanding it at a molecular level and partnering with a company that uses such great science.
One of the things I love is that we do have some competition out there in the market, some of it legitimate, some of it illegitimate, but they all mentioned our research. You know, it’s our research that’s driving this. And so I that’s an exciting place to be, you know, we’re launching mode and method we’re taking what has been kind of a life’s adventure.
It’s a life’s adventure for me, you know, being in sports science, understanding HRV being able to apply it moving into cannabis getting a good education on cannabinoids and terpenes and the endocannabinoid system, how it works, and now being with a nutritional company to bring a product to market. It has been wonderful for me. I mean, I mean, how does it get? How does it get better than that? So we’re going to continue that. And, you know, if I showed you my desk, it’s a mess because it’s covered with different things that we’re trying to figure out. And that’s what I get to do.
Dr. Joel Rosen: No, that’s awesome. I appreciate your help. I think I have an intro in terms of a suggestion for maybe research design, which we could talk about afterward, but always grateful. And it’s the mode method, that internet site, but it’s the mode and method, the company, is that correct? It’s
Don Moxley: Mode and method. The website is mode method.com. Mode method.com.
Dr. Joel Rosen: Right.
Don Moxley: I’m not sure if we got and or not, but the mode method does not will certainly get you there. And again, fill it in, we’re going to do some research projects. So we’re working with a group called Heads Up health, which can aggregate wearable data. So we have at least two research studies. And I don’t know if there’s a guy by name of Joel Jamison out there, that’s a real Silverback in the HRV space.
Joel and I when we were up in Northwest Washington, Joel and I got together for lunch. Joel is a pilot. And then we went to lunch, he said meet me at this airport, and he flies in his helicopter, we can his helicopter and fly over to another airport. So that was certainly interesting. But working with people like that, it’s just been it’s been pretty cool.
Dr. Joel Rosen: Now it’s great, it’s great to see the field of longevity and health optimization advanced and use more natural things that were once tabooed. At some point, now we see that they aren’t so bad. So we’ll think about part four, which is part three. So we’ll think about Part Four at another time. But thanks. And then I’ll give the listeners my code so that when they go into that site, they’ll be able to I’ll put that in the show notes and wish you and your wife and your family the most success going forward.
Don Moxley: Thanks. And if people have questions, if you go to the website, there’s a section there where you can ask questions. You can get a hold of me. So as we work our way through this, we’re pretty available. So if you have questions or things like that, you know, reach out to us. Let us know.
Dr. Joel Rosen: Awesome. All right, Don, you have a great rest of your day.
Don Moxley: Thanks. So we’ll see you soon.
If you are interested in getting HRV+ , go to https://modemethod.com/ and use discount Rosen15 to save 15% If you would like to try spermidine life, we have a discount code to save 10% go here: https://spermidinelife.us/ and use the code ROSEN10