Winner Ketogenic Lifestyle Vs Low Carb Diet. Which One Is Better?


Dr. Joel Rosen: Hello, everyone, and welcome back to another edition about the truth about your health podcast where we’re on a mission to expose the truth about your health to burn out men and women so that we can empower 100 million people to go from exhausted to energized. And I’m excited to talk to our guests. For Part Three, it’s Mr. Mojo himself, Dorian green out, and he’s on a mission for a lot of different things.

But their goal is not just to sell a meter. It’s to spread keto news, information, resources, and understanding so people can make changes in their lives and allow them to live longer healthier lives. So Dorian, thank you so much for giving me your time once again.


Mr. Dorian Greenow: Wow. Thank you very much, Dr. Rice. It’s really good to be here.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Well, yeah, well, listen, I love talking to you. We do have two additions before there. So we’ll post the links to those for people that are watching this. But I think it always starts with integrity. And I think that’s what’s so great about what you do is because it’s not just recommended and don’t hope don’t do the things for yourself. So I think it’d be good to maybe recap a little bit of your story on why you developed this type of lifestyle. And now can then we can transition into what’s new with keto Mojo.


Mr. Dorian Greenow: Yeah, thank you. Yeah. But back in 2015, I was overweight, 207 pounds, I was on antidepressants. My job is just going into the toilet. I’m mucking everything up. And you know, I’m in this fog, but I didn’t know I was in the fog. Well, you know, if you’re in the fog, you don’t really know it until that lifts. And you can and you can see you just, you just, you’re fading out what you’re doing and then bounce between jobs. And a good friend of mine has said, you know, you’ve got to give up the white devil.

So you’re going to get rid of that sugar out of your life and typical English class like I don’t do fad diets, you know, I’d seen my wife do every possible diet under the sun, cabbage soup diets and all of these other things and doing these challenges, and it was a continuous roller coaster for her and you know, I’m, I’m just going like, well, that that’s never working. Why would I do that?

And then as I started reading up on the science of what a ketogenic diet is, I think I’m going to flip that word. I’m gonna say what a ketogenic lifestyle is. Because the deep that four-letter word of diet, I think, is an appalling word. As we started reading, and looking at the science and understanding how the metabolism works, and this is reading they’ve Volek and Phinney and a tear and Taubes and Westman. If you look at all of those different doctors over the period of time.

The science just made sense. So I went on a well-regulated ketogenic lifestyle. And I was testing with an avid meter to it. So I knew the choices that I’m making were working right for me and my bio-individuality. I think this testing is sort of like a macro compass model. If you go into a new world, say I’m going to Italy or Thailand, think of the foods, Italy, Italian foods, or Thai foods.

If you’re going somewhere new, you need a macro compass to guide you. The map is the roadmap are the foods that you’re eating, and the compass tells you if you’re going in the right direction. Now, if I follow the same route every day, and we become creatures of habit, then do I need a map or compass? That’s a question you should ask yourself down the line. But what happened was my weight dropped off, I lost a total of 47 pounds. And you know, I got this mental clarity, I got this energy, this you are the Vive that, you know, I felt like I was 24 again, and I could take on the world.

And I came up with all antidepressants. And that was the genesis for starting the company. Because, you know, I looked at the strip, and I was like, why are these trips so expensive back then, in 2015, they were four to $5. And you’d have to hunt on the back ends of E bay and Amazon to get something that had been covertly shipped in from Australia. It was nuts. But, you know, I realized that you know, at that time, there were a lot of barriers to entry, not only a cost barrier but also an informational barrier.

And so when we set up keto Mojo, it was the at the hopes that we could affect change, metabolic change throughout a population of people. And once you can do that once people change the way they eat the way that they shop, this could potentially have a market forcing function to fundamentally change agriculture globally. So this sounds a bit hubris. A lot of people look at me going like, Wait, hold on, where did you just go there? But when we look at holistic regenerative agriculture that can sequester carbon. This becomes a game-changer yet in America We subsidize corn, soy, and wheat.

And we are subsidizing America the obesity epidemic, we should almost call it a pandemic now, that is killing 1000s, maybe millions 79,000 People will die this year of type two diabetes 79,000. I think that’s a terrible thing. And that’s just one NCD. I think if you look at all the NCDs could cost society about 30 trillion by 2030. And so this was like, how do we affect this change? And that’s what we kind of brought to the table with the launch of the company, keto Mojo,


Dr. Joel Rosen: That’s awesome. And that’s why I was so intrigued with our prior conversations, it was more of a mission-driven, aha, it doesn’t have to be this way. And education and being Miss fed, and the information, and, and, and physically and metaphorically, that you bring up a couple of good things here in terms of the lifestyle versus the diet.

And I think that’s if you can get into that as well because I think the bottom line is making sure that someone can produce clean fuel. And it doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re going to be full-on ketogenic eating, especially as they think, high fat or misinformation about what it is. And it’s more about lifestyle and controlling certain ratios of food and movement and, and getting healthy. And I think that’s why you’ve been able to continue your evolution is because it’s not just pricking your finger per se, or it’s not just eating higher fat. So maybe give us a little more information on your journey as to what is the difference between a ketogenic lifestyle and a ketogenic diet?


Mr. Dorian Greenow: Yeah, I mean, that’s, that’s, that’s a really good question. That is, there are many different ketogenic diets, we can go from the carnivore to the, to the medical world have the full ones and the three ones, we can go to a modified Atkins diet, we can have an MCT style. And so you’ve got to realize that there’s a pendulum, a spectrum of that and, and even in our, in our tribe, with there’s a little bit of infection and frightening, like kinda was the right way to go. High proteins way to go, No, adequate fat is the way to go. And I’m like, I take a middle road. I’m like, what is going to keep it sustainable for me for a long period of time for a lifestyle? I know I have a carbohydrates prediction.


You know, for me, love a good cup of tea, typical Englishman got to have a cookie with your tea or a biscuit is as we would have said in England. And, you know, you know, my kryptonite was milk chocolate hobnobs, you know, and it says on the packet, one nibble, and you’re nobbled, and I’ll go, I only just have one cookie.

And I have the one cookie and mixing now I’ve, I’ve eaten the entire packet in one sitting in two cups of tea in the afternoon. That’s me. So when I think of lifestyle is something that you can stick to for a long period. And in a sentence, just to kind of like keep it really easy. I think it’s adequate fat, moderate protein, lots of above-ground leafy vegetables. So why do I think that?

So adequate fat is for where you are in your journey, if somebody is first starting, and you know, they’re 5060 100 pounds overweight. And then once they get into a state of fat burning, you can be in a slight deficit utilizing your body fat for energy, as well as some of the dietary fat there. So this idea of pushing fat and fat bombs might not necessarily be right for particular individualistic bio-individuality. So I like to think about what is adequate fat, moderate protein, the amount of protein that you need for your lifestyle.

If you’re like Louise Wilson, or, or, you know, the carnivore doc, and you’re working out massively and heavily then yeah, you might want to have a much higher amount of protein for the turnover of that muscle mass that you’ve got, I mean, but look at me, I mean, I’m not exactly a muscle-bound individual. So the quantity of protein that I need is, is less. And that’s why I say moderate protein, usually, to me, it’s the point of satiety, it’s quite interesting.

You know, you can have a chocolate cake and you’ll be able to eat the entire chocolate cake. I can have a good quality, pasteurized piece of meat, and I’ll get maybe three quarters for it and I’m already beginning to feel full, I’m getting that feedback and satiety, and so on. They go okay, I’ll leave that for maybe a breakfast snack in the morning with some eggs or something and I’ll be done and I push it away.

Because you get that correct by feedback is, you know, I think Dr. Robert Cibus talks about having the biofeedback, the problem with an alcoholic is sometimes they don’t know when to stop because they’re not saying that they’re full. But if you ask that same individual to drink the water of the same continuous, especially as think about English people drinking pints of beer, if you think about water, you get to a point where like, I couldn’t possibly drink another pint of water, you get biofeedback.

And the same thing happens with proteins and fats, you get the biofeedback satiety, but you don’t get that with carbohydrates, you get that short circuit. So adequate fat for where that person is joining moderate protein and lots of background leafy vegetables, what’s wrong with leafy vegetables, it’s that fine. Now there are some bits if we get into the nitty Gritties of oxalates, and stuff like that.

But on the general, you know, that’s sort of like where I live and I do drink wine. My wife is actually a certified sommelier. So how do I keep my lifestyle going, whilst enjoying all there is to offer Gemma was just recently at low carb, USA, and spoke on how to choose a key, say keto in quotes here. So let me be very, very kind of careful how to choose a wine once you’re out at a restaurant, or somewhere or over a friend’s place where you can remain in ketosis.

And again, it comes back to the person if you’re just starting one might not be right for you. Because you’re you run this, what’s the word, your metabolic flexibility hasn’t been developed? I can now have people go like, will this kick me out of ketosis as they eat a burrito or something or maybe have a beef bourguignon, and there’s a carrot in there, and there’s an onion in there, and there, and they’re going like, well, this kick kicked me out of ketosis.

And I’m like, I don’t know, depends on where you are, and how long you’ve been doing this and what you’re seeing insulin sensitivity is. So this is the way that we look at it. So that, you know, now I know, we’re a global company, we’re in 31 countries right now. And we have when we get to have the luxury of traveling with the job. And we’re always in nutritional ketosis, even in places where I don’t even understand the menus. I’ve been in South Korea, and the island shows you for a ketogenic conference that was there, and even into Japan, and to China and to Taiwan. And those areas where it gets a bit funky to try and eat keto, but you learn after a while, and you don’t sweat the small stuff a little bit. And I think that’s the beauty of having the right map and compass.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, you said lots of important things, the sustainability for sure, from a lifestyle point of view. And then on top of that, the stressing because the stressing is gonna produce cortisol as well. And that’s gonna drive up glucose. So what is cute like for those that may be very new to the scene, I’m sure you have a continuum of how to explain different concepts depending on where someone is with their understanding Dorian, what what is nutritional ketosis? So explain that to the listener?


Mr. Dorian Greenow: Yeah. Me to nutritional ketosis as defined by doctors, while the company in their seminal book, The Art and Science of low carbohydrate living is measured between 0.5 millimoles in blood, beta-hydroxybutyrate, roughly up to about almost meters measured to about eight millimoles. You know, people always worry about Bugaboo and ketoacidosis.

What about that, like ketoacidosis is usually only in a type one diabetic, and it’s in 10 million moles plus and above, really, when we get to that, and I think that ketoacidosis should get a bit of a remake on its marketing name, it should be called glucose, ketoacidosis, because that happens in high glucose and high ketones. And usually, if you go over blood glucose of 214 milligrams per deciliter elaborate warning like to say check your ketones because you know, you shouldn’t be 240 I mean, I, I would be horrified if I ever saw that.

I mean, my alarm set on my system is a very, I have a popover 120. That’ll give me I mean, usually, I’m in their 80s 90s 100, which is perfectly fine. So 0.5 is generally is like you’re now at the threshold of nutritional ketosis. Now, higher is not necessarily better. I don’t go chasing I don’t go chasing ketones Chase results.

Because it depends on why you’re doing it. There are the weight loss people or the cancer people there are the neurological layers, multiple sclerosis and Parkinson’s and as the epilepsy community, each one of those is going to be a different part of that spectrum. And then that’s how you must approach it. So if we just look at weight loss, above 0.5, and above into the twos, absolutely excellent zone to be in, and it will change over time.

Sometimes when first starting, your liver now produces lots of ketones, but as your mitochondria are ready to receive it, and that was with the Devala confetti studies, they show that it takes 12 weeks for a person to start to get fat adapted. But it also could take much longer than that, and your body can change over a longer period of time.

I can give an anecdotal and have one, my wife Gemma, we both eat the same foods and drink the same similar types of wines. She was always very low on her ketones. 8030405 is when we first started, and I was getting indeed 1.1 to 1.7 like going around or fancy like a look at me, I got ketones. And she was different, you know, because of her age where she was being postmenopausal at that time. And it was only when she started working events with our some regionally did, the faster we will do one meal a day when we’re at a conference is a lot easier to work and focus on that one, and then go out for a great meal at night. Then with this, this Omad started to fundamentally change in her ketones started to come up but this was over a year and a half in. So it can fundamentally change over a long, long period of time.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, I think the bio-individuality is a verb right and learning what unique circumstances time windows activity levels, definitely going into and out of it. I guess the question I would have for you is doo. When you said it’s sort of the Bugaboo ketoacidosis Are you still finding ignorance or lack of awareness from traditional approach doctors that aren’t having it on their radar? You’re still seeing that?


Mr. Dorian Greenow: Absolutely. I mean, metabolic therapies are those, if you think about it, it’s gone back to when William Banting wrote the letter on copyrights in the 1800s. But, you know, the average doctor does not receive metabolic education, they don’t receive this nutrient education in any way, shape, or form. And even on their continuing medical education, there’s, there’s nothing that is in there. And the number of schools that are teaching is very, very slim. And it’s not even done on that basis. And it’s not that much, and not much literature. I mean, a lot of times we’re in our echo chamber, and I think the challenge of the clinical community is to get out more, and to kind of like really start to talk about this a lot. And so the average Doctor probably has done his residency.

And, you know, they’re thinking of their er days when they hear the word keto, and they haven’t changed it or switched it to see the real benefits that it can get. I mean, when you look at the Verta paper that when the two-year study, being able to reverse type two diabetes in I think was either 55 or 60% of cases, that’s reverse with a 91% reduction in exogenous insulin. That’s profound.

Because the standard current of care isn’t, but if the American diabetic Association isn’t advocating for it, and if I still meet registered dieticians, who are on the old way of treating type two diabetes, it’s shocking, because there are outside political organizations that continue to put a lot of pressure. So that doesn’t change if I mean, kind of like, careful not going into into into landmines. But if you look at the work of what Belinda Fettke, did Garrett fair key on the on how they were they much maligned as doctors, but it came out of a vegan religious group. This starts to get a challenge when you’ve got such big money in agriculture in corn, soy, and wheat. What is their fundamental read wanting to change it? What happens is we see that in diets that it becomes eat less, move more.

You can’t outrun a bad diet. It’s impossible. And if you take a look at the macro, this is the gravy if you like the data that the US government has if you look at all the foods that we’re eating, we’re eating my government plate, we are and we are exercising more. Why is it that the American military has an obesity problem eating the my government plate when they got drill sergeants on everybody’s ass? And if I’ve met pilots, military pilots, who are seriously concerned about losing their license, their livelihood, because they, they are following the traffic like the methodology of what their and their weights got so much that they’re having difficulty in getting into their flight suits, and some of them are resorting to having a nip and tuck, so they can keep going. There’s something fundamentally wrong with that.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, you know, Dorian, I changed the name of this podcast from the truth about your adrenal fix to the truth about your health. So it is aimed at knocking over some sacred cows. And I think, what’s the I don’t know the exact quote, but then as I guess, new science will come about as people die, right as the relics end up dying, and you have a new breed and a new generation that has an inherited the dogma.

However, the problem is, is that, as you said, the funding and, and the watchdogs and, and all of the motivation from big pharma and big, big, big food and medical curriculum, I guess it is a slippery slope like you said, but at the same time, I guess what has been keto Mojo solution to not having to knock on the base of the castle wall and you know, continue to bang your head against it? What’s been sort of the mission or the business strategy that you guys are doing to get the word out, but knowing that certain anchors can only get you so far?


Mr. Dorian Greenow: Yeah, I mean, knowledge is power. And the truth will out is what we believe in wholeheartedly. And if anybody wants to go over to visit our website, keto, we built a massive website of information and how-to guides and infographics. We have our chef who’s created over 220 different recipes to show how engaging and delightful and delicious the food is built within those recipes as you can select as many recipes as you like. And say I want to cook for six people or 10 people or just two people.

And you’ll be able to print out an easy, printable shopping list that you can take with you, we soon to be I think in the next week, we’ll have the ability that you can create your meal plans for a seven day or a 14 day or even a month. So can you can plan everything out. We’ve gone to our good friends Doug and Pam Devine, of low carb, USA, and we license every presentation from all of these amazing doctors and clinicians, and researchers. And we offer it for free.

So if you want to do this massive, deep dive into each different disease state, it’s there for you for free, not a payload behind them. And we get about 2.8 million visitors to our website, especially over last year, because this is how you can affect metabolic change. Now, I was very disappointed two years ago, COVID started and we were looking at this and we realized those people who were dying, were those who had the comorbidities. And we had a moment there where everybody should have been talking about boosting their immune system. And how do we do the boosting of the immune system, we lower our glucose, we have great foods, we make sure we get good amounts of sleep, we increase our vitamin D and sunshine.

And we work on Exercise and Health, we do the entire terrain around the individual and this, this should have been the conversation. And yet it dissolved into politics, and maths, and vaccines. And it was kind of like look at this, instead of looking at the root causes, the root causes of the NCDs will get to the point now where we’re getting I think we’re COVID we’re getting to endemic which is great. It’s going to be like a call, it’s going to be like a flu season, it’s going to come around.

And people will have that first amount of immunity from having cause it caught it and pass through. And sadly, a lot of people have done it. But for those people who still have comorbidities, it’s going to keep coming around each year. And this is where we must fundamentally say take a look and say you’ve got to take control of your health because no one else is going to do it. You are the captain of your ship and ain’t no magic pill that’s going to come on out and say hey, take this look at type two diabetes.

They’ve been living in the US magic pills for how long and we still have the same mortality rate that you get a type two diabetes diagnosis and you got 10 years to Anything is left of your life. That’s shocking to me. I mean, Stanford Graduate School of Business did a study. And this is what is the value of one year of life in law, every life is priceless. The calculated out $129,000 on one year average? Well, we just mentioned earlier, 79,000 people die in one year 79,000 times 129,000.

I think we’re into the hundreds of millions probably into the trillions why that’s safe when you start doing the math. That’s the loss of value of human value. Not apart from the loss of the Father, or the mother, or the uncle. That to me is me know that we can change that. And we’ve known it for 100 years. There’s something wrong here that we fundamentally can’t address. And that’s why when you go and give the information that is free through what we do on our website, you empower the people to change it themselves. And make it a lifestyle. That becomes fun. I eat out a huge last night I went out for an Indian people go like I went out for an interview.

Yeah, I went out for an hour I had a chicken tikka because that’s the cream sauce. I had from a say Mother, I think it was a man lighter was the other one that we had. Instead of rice, I had broccoli and spinach. And they know to do that broccoli and spinach. We had a lamb tandoori lamb that was with him. And I had a bottle of Alexander Valley, brute Natcher.


Bubbles with it locally made bubbles. The bubbles were roughly about 11% Alcohol. And I knew that from because it was a brute net shirt. The way that the champagne golds go, although this is a domestic one. But they still hold to those rules a little bit that we knew we had the glucoses under one roughly 1.2 grams per deciliter. So we knew that we had a great Indian meal. I do it on a regular basis. This is how you create a lifestyle and enjoy the fun of things instead of having a diet.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, I love it. I especially empowering people with knowledge and giving them the information that’s readily available that can really give them the tools, right I mean, ultimately it works. There’s no debate of the validity of what it’s going to do to change your morbidity and your energy and your quality of life. So transitioning to be what’s behind you with my my my mojo health.

I’m excited to talk to you about that. One of the Segways I’d like to talk to you about though for me specifically, but in general, you talk about the glucose ketone index. And I wanted to get your insight on that where you have some really nice educational infographics on your site. And I believe the 10 to one glucose ketone index is is really what we’re looking for, depending on like you said earlier, is it for neurological concerns, cancer concerns, weight loss concern, so forth and so on.

But that allows with I’ve been seeing myself the ability to be a little on the higher side of the glucose level if you’re getting below 10 When you have some ketone. So if you can explain that to people, what is the glucose ketone index, and not necessarily look at it as unsuccessful if maybe you are writing a little bit higher on that first marker on the glucose markers, maybe explain that. And then we can transition into what you’re developing and how your individuality will allow us to determine all of that stuff going forward?


Mr. Dorian Greenow: Yeah, but a super question. So the Genesis the glucose ketone index was Professor Thomas Siegfried of Boston College, and he was looking at cancer as being a metabolic disease and in his research, and he was one that kind of like, understood that you know, all Dr. Otto Warburg was the first person who put out that, that cancer is feeding off of glucose that has been fermented foods going through fermentation in an anaerobic environment with it within the cell.

And so if you can obviously suppress the glucose down and increase the ketones up if there’s less fuel, there’s food for cancer to eat, then potentially you could begin to starve cancer and you can necrotizing it and get clear on modules that could allow staff knows maybe a conventional standard of care or modified standard of care, maybe less chemotherapy, less radiology and maybe you can do it all by using nutrients to be give the persons that are boosted their immunity.

So this is what he kind of came out and realize that that became very important to this came out of the cancer world. But at that stage, there wasn’t a meter that would be able to calculate it, there wasn’t a software system. And we came up with the first ability to connect it to an app so that we’re doing glucose and ketones of it will calculate your TKI all at once before, you’d have to be doing it yourself. And what that is, is you take your glucose measurement in the European standard, which is millimoles. It’s only America and a few other countries that measure milligrams per deciliter.

So if you’re out there and want to do it yourself, take milligrams per deciliter divided by roughly 18. And that will give you millimoles and divide that by your ketones. You can do that if you really want or you can just use our app and it will do it all for you. Or you can go to our website. And we have a GK AI calculator. So it came out of cancer. But now we’re seeing this being applied in other disease states as in weight loss. And it’s kind of like a much smoother line, if you will, as an indicator.

When I look at it, I generally like to do my GK AI, or I tag my readings by my morning reading about an hour after waking. Because I think that’s a little bit more like that fasted measurement, I like that if you’re doing it after like food, you can have a little bit of noise brought into that reading because of the food, you’ll see that you’re there. Even if you’re eating low carb, in my habits, you know, I think of a low carb meal as having less than a 30 point 30 milligram per deciliter spike of about 1.7 millimoles. I don’t want to go over that. And I know I’m personally eating more carbs than I would want.

And that push-ups 13 milligrams per deciliter can affect your reading. So I definitely think that that morning one is a good one. And the other one is sort of like the one the my just before my evening meal, especially if I’m doing mad that kind of like gives another idea. So there are also some different schools of thought is like when to test is the morning the right one? Or is just before your evening meal, the right one, you know in the morning, okay, that’s faster. That’s overnight? Well, we would hope that you will be in ketosis about but remember, we’re ketones always very low in the morning and get more as they go up.

But during the day, you could have more things that you could potentially eat, that could cause you to pop out. So there are some other clinicians who think no, maybe just before the evening meal is important. And if you’re like me, I sell out, test and learn yourself, learn your route, learn your way to work. And then once you kind of look got that if you’re getting the same results every single time do you need to continue to test for that particular thing? And the answer is no. If you and I have done our job correctly, ideally, they don’t need to test they learn what they’re doing. And they’re having a fantastic healthy, enjoyable lifestyle. That to me is like the job done.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, no, absolutely. That’s a great explanation as far as. So also, actually, Joe.


Mr. Dorian Greenow: let’s come back. So I realized there’s a bit of a cover on it. So if we take a look at the scale of this one, for cancer, the holy grail is to get under one. It’s really hard to get there. That’s, that’s having super low glucose and very high ketones. A high therapeutic zone is maybe 123. If you’re getting in that zone, absolutely fantastic. From about three to six, you are in like a deep state of nutrient ketosis, six to nine, you’re in sort of like nutrient, ketosis. And so using that scale, again, it could come back to why are you doing it. And you know, that lower number is not necessarily better unless you have a specific reason behind it to be trying to target that.

Maybe doing cancer treatment, maybe doing multiple sclerosis, Alzheimer’s, or Parkinson’s, and maybe interesting to see how it would work. In psychology. We’re working with the University of Edinburgh, hopefully, on a bipolar study that they’ll be doing, we should be very exciting. We’ve already seen this stuff. Dr. Chris Palmer has done schizophrenia. So I think here that psychology makes it better because I came off my antidepressants when I was between 1.1 and 1.7. So I like that. Anyway, sorry. I digress a little sorry.


Dr. Joel Rosen: No, no, I was gonna ask you, where are you now? Where do you tend to hover with on a real-time average for what you do and what you like and can be between 1.1 and 1.7?


Mr. Dorian Greenow: When I’ve when I’m traveling, especially at the conference is when I’m introducing longer days of being on my feet and fasting during the day, I might pop into the TOS, I sometimes find altitude plays a game when, especially when I’ve come off planes, which is kind of like interesting on that one there.

And then, if I’ve been a little bit lacks, or if I’m unsure of stuff, you know, I will, I’ll down maybe fin 0.5 and 0.5 and the ones and that’s usually wind-induced, I have to be honest with that one, where we’re traveling, and we might not be able to find the right wines that we would want to have with our meal. And, you know, there’s no truth in labeling and wine.

And this is, you know, I would love to see truce in labor, I would love to see a carbohydrate RS label residual sugar haven’t been in the wine industry for so long myself. That’s what we would like to see. So, but generally, it’s very, very, very rare for me to be out of ketosis. It takes a lot of days.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Right. So I like to see the truth in labels beyond just wines, right? I mean, in all in all labels. But with that being said, so you’re talking about glucose ketone index, are you talking about spitting out ketones when you’re talking about where you reside now?


Mr. Dorian Greenow: Yeah, normally, I’d say sorry, good. Great. I said G on my GK I, I’m usually between about a 2.5 and a 4.5. On my personal GK I that I run up by running out, okay.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Okay, gotcha. And again, for those, go ahead, yep. Keep going, please.


Mr. Dorian Greenow: Yeah, and that’s, you know, that’s when I’m looking at the GK I value. But then when you sort of like, look at glucose, I look at glucose is what I’m eating. I’m working on it. That’s why ketones are up between 1.9 and 1.7. A little bit like that.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, no, I think it’s a good lesson for people that are learning this lifestyle that when you are testing, whether it’s the first thing in the morning, when or you’re testing before your meal, you do want to learn by yourself, and you want to know what foods trigger more of a spike of your glucose? What are your baselines? What are the correlations between what you do daily?

And how do you feel and the stressors that you have? And how does that impact when you divide your glucose when you convert it to the units that the ketones are in? And that would be your glucose ketone index, how does that get impacted? And so forth, and so on. So I think it’s a really good point for you to have to learn to understand what you need to do. And as you said, with Gemma, you will evolve, as you start to fine-tune in it’s like Zen in the art of, you know, Kido balance, right? So as far as now you have your tools. So what’s the genesis behind or the goal behind my mojo health? And what you’re doing with that now that we just kind of talked about knowing thyself?


Mr. Dorian Greenow: Yeah, well, the first thing, obviously, we did was we built an app that connects from your meter just on a standalone basis to your phone so that you could look at your data, it could graph that out, you could have the ability to target or to iterate notes, but that resided on your phone. But if we look about trying to have a greater metabolic change throughout a larger population, you know, it’s sometimes it’s hard for an individual to change themselves, and they need the help of their coaches and their clinicians and their doctors.

And because it becomes about accountability, and sometimes not everybody has the right amount of accountability. I certainly know that I didn’t, you know, I was successful, because my wife chose to do it with me at the same time. So we both held each other to be accountable. And so what we wanted to create was a mess was how can we do this in real-time, you can kind of like see over my shoulder a little bit, I have a team where you can see what your latest measurement is. And then you can also see your timing ranges. So we can look at this over different data periods.

So it could be seven days could be the day, seven days, 28 days, three months, or even a year. And now you can set your own time and range goals that are right for you. Or a clinician or doctor could set it for the whole population that they’re trying to work with. And they can actually see exactly what’s going on. And then you obviously can see the graphs of glucose and ketones and GK I automatically calculated out if the measurements were done at the same time.

And so now we have a dashboard for the user. But we’ve taken it one step forward and that hopefully will be released next week, is you can connect into Apple HealthKit to know if you’re utilizing Apple healthcare and you might be taking readings from your protein Your fats, your carbohydrates, maybe from chronometer, or you’re tracking it in Apple healthcare, or maybe from carb manager or a neutral sensor, all these other things, and you’re putting in there, now you can pull them into your dashboard and see it at the same time.

And the clinician, doctor, or coach can do exactly the same thing. And now you have a continuous remote care option for somebody. And we made it free. And you don’t even have to use my meter, you can manually put this information in, this is the most crate My wife thinks I’m nuts going like, why should we do that way like that. And I say this because if we’re going to affect metabolic change, we have must stop putting the paywalls in front of it. You know, our original business plan was to test three times a day for less than the cost of a latte. Well, that’s okay for America might be okay for Europe. But it might not be the right price point for Indonesia or Pakistan or, or India. That’s where we want to try and see change on a global scale and put it into multiple languages. And are my world your health platform as a secure HIPAA compliant double encrypted Health Cloud?

And not only can you connect to other apps, like we’ve already mentioned, chronometer, and color manager, but you can also connect into heads up health nutritious sent my fasting tracker, those apps, but we’ve also designed it now that it will actually connect to other large hospital EHR systems. And to most of the people listening, they probably won’t under understand the names of epic and servo and elation, and validity and all these things that these hospital systems, but it’s my goal within the next 3060 days that we will have 70% of the hospitals will have the ability in real-time to see glucose and ketone data if they want.


Dr. Joel Rosen: If they want, what do you feel about? Yeah, sorry, I didn’t mean to come in to get in there. Yeah.


Mr. Dorian Greenow: If they want, but this is the point of when you got to think like, okay, that’s one arm of what we do. But we need to educate the doctors. And then that’s where Jim and I have, we have our Kidney Foundation. It’s a 501 C three, public charity.

And through the foundation, we help fund clinical trials and studies, and education into the efficacy and use of ketogenic therapies for the benefit of humankind. We’ve been able to help give seed money to the society of metabolic health practitioners, which is a group of doctors whose mission is to teach other doctors what a concept is. We’ve been able to help the key to life projects in Europe, who’ve already started up an online educational system.

And then we’re looking to have one of the first schools to teach ketogenic therapies in bricks and mortar and bring patient cohorts in at the same time, which I think is really exciting. And this is the challenge because if you take a look at the average registered dietician, I was checked to speak with Jessica Ernst rd, who’s now a clinical educator, I asked her is like, well, how many patients were you roughly dealing with? She was about 135. Okay, that’s 135. Now there might be some clinicians and doctors who might be where we’re at with a patient population of maybe 500.

Here’s the challenge. It’s 38 million people who are type two diabetic 68 million people who are pre-diabetic. If you look at say, 135 people and you look at the number, of coaches and clinicians and ideas with we need an army, we need 900,000, or maybe a million people to help deal with one disease state. And that, to me, is the challenge. So this is why we built my mojo house was like we’re gonna remove the payables you don’t have to go and build a software system design a software system, here it is, and we’ve invested significant dollars to do it.

And if you look at the Hallberg paper, she spoke at the ketogenic symposium that was just held in late October, in Brighton in the United Kingdom, I was there and Sarah Hallberg of Verta health showed the paper on what continuous remote care looks like, where you’ve got data feeding in real-time. And you have your clinicians and doctors working in real-time. You have resources as we have of how-tos and guides and recipes and like that which they can use, you have a community where they can work together and that can be in Facebook groups that can be in closed groups.

And when you look at having all of these together, Berta health achieved an industry-leading standard of 74% compliance. And on top of this real context in the epilepsy world, we had been doing this for over 40 years, and he achieved roughly 45% compliance. But it was the way that they did the remote care the way that they did the behavioral change. Now imagine if we can then apply that and get better. That’s their first go. And if we go over to the incident, that’s 74% compliance. And roughly 40% of people don’t even take their medications. So they did better than somebody taking a pill. And that’s, and if you can do that, and one disease state, if we can do it for all these others, that’s a profound change to society.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, it’s exciting times and makes me think of two things. The first one is as you mentioned, and we talked about earlier, the difference between the ketogenic lifestyle and the ketogenic diet. I almost feel like saying this is a ketogenic lifestyle is also somewhat limiting the, I guess, the broadness of what you’re actually doing, because it’s not just a ketogenic lifestyle, it really is metabolic flexibility.

It’s knowledge and power, it’s controlling your glucose, it’s being able to produce ketones, but that’s not it, just to me seems that it’s it goes much bigger than a ketogenic lifestyle. The other thing I would think of is, what kind of domino effects do you think it would have besides the, I guess, the beneficial effects of doing this in terms of, Okay, now we’re able to have the compliance, we’re able to have these outcomes. But that also impacts is a domino effect. And there’s almost like a whack-a-mole effect, that also challenges the status quo. And it also puts a lot of pressure and exposes a lot of companies that make gazillions of dollars when things aren’t getting better. What kind of domino effect do you think there’s going to have?


Mr. Dorian Greenow: Yeah, when I spoke at low carb, USA, I did a CME presentation on the benefits of glucose and ketone testing for patient practitioners and society. So let’s just kind of touch on the societal. In the European Union, where we have a single-payer health care system, where you get universal health care, it’s though these healthcare systems are getting stretched to quite a large limit. And that stretch causes for those countries to have very high taxes 21 22% V, A T, quite a high taxation that is graded on the individual for their own personal income tax, then high taxation on alcohol and on cigarettes in a punitive way, and obviously, on gasoline.

And so there’s a massive amount of taxation because they’ve got to take care of the health care of the population. What if you could reduce the burden, or let’s just use type two diabetes because this is the easy one where all the data is type two diabetes costs Americans $320 billion a year. And we know we could reverse that using the virtual model in 50 to 60% of cases, what we’ve we just saved $180 billion here.

Now we hear the American diabetic Association, we had Tracy Brown, when she was there, go up to Congress and plead with Congress saying we’ve got to lower the cost of insulin for all type two diabetics. We can do that in under 30 days by 91%. By following a well-regulated ketogenic diet, again, we got to take a look at the root cause. So I don’t think the price of insulin is really an issue.

You know, obviously for BioRad, maker of insulin, which happens to be the American diabetic association is the number one sponsor. Well, funny that I’ll tell you a little anecdote. I did the tour to cure ride we took a team under Verta health at risk riders, we put them through onto a well regulated ketogenic diet. We were the number one sponsor, and fundraising we raised over $48,000. I got brought in my good friends from F-bombs, and from energy bits and for keto logics, and we showed them a whole group of new providers that they could perhaps get sponsorship money from, and we’ve reversed reverse diabetes and that person had been following the APA guidelines for 25 years. We reversed it. They never invited us back.


They never invite us back. In fact, when I mentioned to some people, it is possible that Verta health has shown that you can reverse the effects of type two diabetes with a well regular ketogenic diet. They came over and said you cannot say that because they’d had a complaint from BioRad. But the other sponsor at that event, the local place down the road was Jelly Belly, maker of glucose, candy, pills, insulin, and candy.

And that was the American diabetic association. So when you can take a look at what I think this can change, and I mentioned about the costs of that they can we can reduce that down for a single-payer system. But imagine if you are somebody who’s running a healthcare system in America, maybe like a united, maybe an Aetna, maybe, and it’s a for-profit basis, what if you could realize that you can make people healthier, yet still maintain the premiums, then you would make more of a margin spread?

Yet, the way that our healthcare system is better, and let’s just change that word, our sick-care system is set up is payment for people being sick, and not payment for people to be healthy in a population. And that we need to kind of like take a look only when an insurance provider says I want to make the margin spread, and starts to take a look at what’s going on in that healthcare wait and see the difference.


We’re already seeing car insurance companies would have telemetrics to go and lower the premiums on an individual. What if there was a way that we could have health metrics that could lower our cost of health care? Why should I have to because I’m taking care of myself have the burden of my health care cost based upon someone else who’s not perhaps now I know the load weighting it through society, what perhaps brings it down because when I go visit my doctor, now it looks at all the blood and goes, I was fantastic, mate. Come back and see me next year unless you need to see me before I see my dentist more than I see my doctor.

And it never used to be that. So that could be a fundamental change that we could see in the cost of health care. Now if we’re all shopping the outer aisle, what happens if we can sell now to say hold on we need good if we got the good datasets, we need good pasteurize meats, good, organically grown vegetables, and the like and these animal husbandries to be accessible and we can actually sequester carbon, we can change how we farm and in fact, we can change the farm bill is a boring piece of legislation where we are subsidizing the obesity and death in America needs to fundamentally change. And I know that sounds lofty, but we can do it one person at a time everybody who goes low carb. That’s how a revolution happens. One person at a time.

And when I know that I’ve got 2.8 million people visiting our website that gives Gemma and me, you know, the biggest joy because you know, I don’t have kids and I have children. So what is my legacy given beaten, I made a buck or made a difference. And I think that I think that the latter is far more. I think that gives you joy and motivation in life. It gives you that gratitude that you were fortunate enough to be able to affect the change. And people think fortunate enough. I came to America with $750 in a backpack, and America has allowed me to do this. There is an American dream there is the ability to affect change. And that to me is kind of like why I think that our ability to give back to our society becomes far more important.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, what a journey in terms of I would imagine this, looking at this strip and thinking, why are they charging so much for I would like to think you had scanned out to think I’d be changing the Farm Bill. But I got to think that that may have not been on the top of my mind at the time. Right?


Mr. Dorian Greenow: Not initially, no, it’s only as you get into it, and you understand how the ecosystem works a little bit and have the struggles. I mean, Miriam Kalamoon said, No, it’s going to be a bottom-up and a top-down approach. And eventually, you know, these two little areas will make the connection and we’ve already done it just a little bit. We’re seeing the doctors make the connections with the consumers.

I mean, if you hear Dr. Address’s answer of the diet doctor when he talks about the genesis of the journey he learned from his patients, and he was seeing the way that he was doing was not making any change. Yes, Emily going the other way affected change. I think that becomes more important and the power of a person’s pocketbook is massive and massive.

It’s the biggest voting thing that you could ever do is when you vote with your wallet because American Capitalism is there. And we can see it out work, I think who was it that Marxist and sold his primal food brands to? Was it Kraft or Nabisco or something like that for 200 million? Those big companies are looking, they see it, and they will understand. And that’s how you get it to get the change when we get the E-commerce to come on into place. I think we’re in an exciting time right now.


Dr. Joel Rosen: it is I have to correct you, though, because I asked you earlier about if it was just a matter of information, and it’s not I mean, you’re doing so much more than information, you’re empowering, and you’re, you’re data tracking, and you’re validating and you’re impacting change, and you’re actually ahead of the curve and, and doing what you can to ultimately have other people take notice. So it’s really exciting. And I’m excited for what the future holds for everything that you’re doing.


Mr. Dorian Greenow: Yeah, I mean, one of our visions for the future. It’s anything’s possible with time and money, but with our foundation, you know, I, you know, I don’t know, if any people in the Keto food industry is listening on him, which I feel sure they do, because you have such an influential voice is, you know, I look at having something that maybe it’s 1%, or 5%, for science, and then what we do is, you know, we build it up, right now, we only got about just about over $600,000 in the, in the endowment.

But our guys, if we can build up the amount of money that we have, in the foundation, we can then be able to fund more clinical trials and studies. You know, if you look at the work of what Nina Ty Schultz is trying to do with the nutrition coalition to try and affect it, it’s going to be evidence-based, but we need an avalanche of evidence.

I know that would kill Mojo, tweak your mojo in our foundation, we’re working on it with about 20 different clinical trials, they got kind of like put it got a little bit put on hold during COVID Because of how to do the in-person intakes and stuff like that. But then now they’re all gearing back up again and coming roaring on in. And I think as we have more science as we have more evidence backs, and let’s be very clear that the ketogenic diet is one of the most well researched ketogenic dietary formats that are out there.

It’s not like, Oh, this is something super new. I mean, it’s been going on for 100 years. I think this is how we will eventually affect change, that it’ll come out or be evidence, but it might be one small country that might choose to suggest low carb and it’ll start on a disease state first, and then it will kind of like move out from there.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, it’s it is exciting times but yet, you know like you said, you have the still the naysayers of the ketogenic diet. So it’s, it is sort of that one ship one seashell at a time or one starfish at a time, right. So one of the things that I changed Dorian is I would ask in the past, what you wish you would have done differently knowing what you know now, but because this is called the truth about your health.

What truth about health that you wish you may have known earlier in your, in your journey that you’ve laid was sort of like an aha, like a sacred cow that you were, you were told and just to accept, or just something that’s a fallacy, or maybe the opposite of what you would have been told, but does anything sort of pop out? I mean, I’m sure so many things do but in terms of something that you thought was just for, for, like, just an acceptance or a given, and now you kind of know or you’ve known over the years that that’s almost exactly opposite to what you teach people.


Mr. Dorian Greenow: You know, I grew up in England, it’s sort of like toughed it out where you go stiff upper lip kind of like stuff. And it wasn’t much on food. And self-care becomes really important in Europe, they expect the government to do it. And in maybe in the Americas, they say we should eat this way and that that’ll be it. But self-care becomes really important.

I went keto I was successful, I lost weight, and then they started the company. And you know, the stress of running a company even the killer company, when you think all eyes like no, you’re living it to lead it. But you forget how much that stress that lack of sleep can have a profound effect on an individual and now I dropped off the weight and then my weight came back up.

There’s only really recently as a company got more stable. That I was like, hold on, look at me. That’s what’s going on. I’m the Keto guy and I’m coming back up to where it was before this is not right and what’s wrong and if you kind of like start taking a look back, the things that I was doing wrong was not doing the self-care, it’s not doing the I was not reducing down the stress in my life. And I was pushing personally too much fat for me, I was having too much heavy cream in my teeth is a waste of calories.

So I removed that one aspect, and then my weight started dropping about, I made sure that I added more sleep into my lifestyle in the days of getting up at 530. Every single morning, working on the European with the European coders working with the East Coast accounting team, starting on at 9 am with the Pacific team 530 working over with Asia up until seven and 10 o’clock at night and repeating now, six days a week. You can’t do that as an individual, it’s really hard to know and I take it with another lens, when I look at any sort of like a professional who’s trying to do that, you got to kinda like find a way to remove that stress out of it.

And it might be very hard for a young mother with a young family. How do we do these pieces because this becomes more important? And everyone goes like I can functional four hours of sleep a night and like, look at me and I’m like, dude, let’s look at you when you’re in your 50s and your 60s. It’s about healthspan. And we have a very limited time on this earth. And he seems to be accelerated as I get older. You know, I think those lazy days when I was a teenager now it’s like, wow, you know, I have we achieved enough in the day.

But that self-care is what it likes. Kido is just one piece of measuring the data is just one bit in that bucket of what are you removing the toxins that can be in your life, I live in an agricultural zone. And you know, you always wonder out What Are They Spraying with? How much Roundup is there? Where is there mold that is within your house, or you’ve got toxic products that are causing if you’ve got off-gassing that’s going on, if that that can change your epigenetics Kido obviously, eating good foods can change the different areas, making sure you’ve got the vitamin D in the sunshine, and you’re getting the sleep, and you’re bringing in that meditative and community.

For those I mean, I’m an atheist, but I also understand the value of community that comes from the church, or, or a different community and tribe that well being and that that social aspect. And I think through COVID, we lost the social aspect, quite greatly. And I think that from that we’re gonna see more mental health issues come out. And I think we can fundamentally change as well. I’m excited about the bipolar study, that that we’re working on with the University of Edinburgh, and there are some other areas of ADHD and mental health that can be done because this is a massive thing. Migraines were to the worker and Dr.

Angela Stanton is doing with migraines. I didn’t realize that 15% of the world suffered from migraines. debilitating. So this is kind of like a cool area to be in. And I think because you coming back to it, those were the areas that that self-care, getting the extra amount of sleep, reducing down the stress. Those two, that’s my personal anecdote, those are the things that were the biggest for me that no, didn’t get it right the first time around. I’m trying to work on it and getting it right the second time around.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, no, it’s great. It just shows you that health is a verb and its bio-individuality. But at the end of the day, there are common themes that apply to everyone and self-care is one of them. I would even say that glucose ketone index of less than nine to you know, nine to one for any condition. If you know neuroinflammation, for any condition is the way to go.

But had you had my mojo health app, you would have been seeing that your self-care or the data or the metrics were showing you Hey, even though you’re doing this or that, you know, you got now an objective sign. That doesn’t make sense, hey, I’m, I’m eating this way or that way it shouldn’t be doing this. But now all of a sudden you think oh, there’s a three-dimensional world where I’m up in the morning before the sun comes up. I’m up at night after the sun goes down. And I’m doing burning the candle at both ends. And sometimes we forget about that and people want to know what the best supplement is or what the best diet is. And they forget about the glue that ultimately is what runs the show? And it’s the software that causes the hardware to drop to crash, basically.


Mr. Dorian Greenow: Yeah. I mean, you know, I look at my mojo house and I think about my early days in 2015. Yeah, I cracked my macros for the first 30 to 60 days. And I was just writing in on the pen and piece of paper that hadn’t heard of like these other apps at that stage that could do it. But if you think about that, that was me learning myself. Some so many people don’t even know what the differences between the comp protein and the fat are. There are people in food deserts who don’t understand, this challenge. So for me, I like it now that there are so many advantages, free tools to learn yourself. That’s what you’re doing that that that first 90 days of behavioral change is so important.

Why did they why does the military send their new recruits to boot camp. It’s because they’re trying to do a behavioral change. They’re trying to set them up for the discipline that will stand them forward for the rest of their lives. And this is what we have to do for ourselves. Now, hopefully, we don’t have to do it with a drill sergeant on our backs. But we do have to be needed, kept accountable. And that’s kind of what my mojo health project is being about, is giving the tools, the resources, the clinicians, and connecting them all, so that they can work together in harmony to affect the change.

And I think it’s exciting. I think the areas that we are going to now see low carb ketogenic lifestyles go into help from the polycystic ovarian syndrome. From looking at, as we’ve mentioned, for multiple sclerosis, Alzheimer’s, and Parkinson’s, to psychological. Type two diabetes, reversal, hypertension, and all the metabolic syndromes that you have out there and the cancers. This is great, but there’s only an adjunct in that world, and you have to look at the whole terrain around it. Because if you move one big way, 1% here, 2% there 5% Here 3%, eventually, you get to that tipping point.

And that tipping point, that’s where the difference helps. But to me fundamentally, it’s really hard to correct when damage is done. And you know, we’ve got to go upstream before and get that preventative aspect in it. We need for the parents to be able to look at the next to be teaching the next generation not to make the mistakes that we made because we got indoctrinated by Ancel Keys and Earl Butz in the 70s. And we’re living on poor science because of that, and marketing because of that by food industries. Once we start changing the children, the next-gen. And then you know, you look at training the next a lot of doctors and clinicians and researchers in nutrition. I think that’s gonna but the fact that it’s going to take generational change. cray-cray, but what happens when the first astronaut becomes keto?

Have you thought about that? I mean, I’m into rockets. It’s a little side by here, I’m like, follow everything that happens with the Falcon nine and the new Star rocket, but also look at the work that Dr. Dominic D’Agostino has done. And if we know that one calorie of one gram of fat gives you nearly nine kilocalories of energy, and one gram of carbohydrate gives you nearly 4.5. Out. If we think of mass to orbit, it better be for somebody to be ketogenic. If you think about a long-duration mission and maybe going to Mars or the stars, we could be it would be keto is the way to go. Because that protects the brain from seizures. I think that would be kind of like really interesting, because then that might inspire the next generation, of astronauts or something. And like, what if we haven’t seen those studies done in space?

But they have seen it when? Yes, we did the NEEMO, which is the analog to space for a long duration. And I think that is kind of interesting, because that’s like, what is the next generation? You know, how do we know how to make fat that way? And then it’s like it comes out from that part. So I’ve personally super biased to being keto, I think it’s our default state. If you look back on ancestral history for the last 2.5 million years, where we picked seeds. No, we were taking down the elk and using the proteins and fats, and we were ketogenic. And this is what this is how our brains got so big. This is the way that we’re supposed to be. So to me, that’s my world.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Oh, awesome information. I appreciate your time and dedication and actually your contribution. So really excited and I always keep the invitation open because I can guarantee every time I talk to you next there’ll be some new exciting information. The next frontier. So thank you so much Dorian for being there. I’ll leave links to how to be able to get access to all the things that you’ve talked about and also they can just go to the website as well. So thank you so much, Dorian, for your time and I wish you and Gemma nothing but a healthy happy future and blessings all around.


Mr. Dorian Greenow:
He said much appreciated. Thank you

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