How to Get to The Main Cause of having no Energy Part 2 with Morley Robbins


Dr. Joel Rosen: Alright, hello, everyone. And welcome back to another edition of the truth about your health where we teach, exhausted and burnt-out adults the truth about their health and specifically adrenal fatigue, so that they can get their health back very, very quickly. And I’m joined again for part two, with Morley Robbins, and we are going to be talking about in this case, we are going to be talking about how to get to the main cause of having no energy. And as you may or may not know, Morley has the root cause protocol. That helps us do that.

And I’m excited for part two because we’re going to piggyback from what we talked about on our last call. But just for those that may not know, Morley is the founder of the root cause protocol and the magnesium advocacy group. He’s received his BA in biology at Denison University in Ohio and holds an MBA from George Washington University. And he’s a guess, a reformed health care administrator, although I wouldn’t say reform, he’s now on the other side, as we talk about, and he’s also trained in wellness coaching himself. He has nutritional counseling background, from Functional Diagnostic Nutrition, he’s got his training protocols for doctors. Morley, thank you so much for joining us again today.


Morley Robbins: Absolutely. Delighted to be here. And looking forward to this discussion, I think the folks who are gearing in on this.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah so to piggyback just to kind of if our listeners listening to this for the, as their first one will leave links, wherever this is being listened to, and being able to get access from to the prior one. But what we’re talking about is what I feel is a game-changing, life-changing book that you just wrote, called sure your fatigue how to balance three minerals and one protein in the solution that you’re looking for.

And we outlined the first four chapters in our first talk, basically talking about how we’re misled and miss fed the modern health solution for energy, which is anything but how the body makes energy. And then ultimately, the blind spots that doctors don’t have when it comes to the errors in making energy. So maybe just Springboarding from that, morally, in terms of what is the oxidation blindspot so that we can go into now that we know what the cause is?

How do I dress specifically that so what is what’s the what’s kind of catch us up from the oxidation blindspot and how the body makes energy so that we can pivot into what do we do about it?


Morley Robbins: Let’s create the right context. Plus, again, we live on a planet that is dominated by two very reactive elements. And it’s important to understand the soup in which we find ourselves. And it was I think, hiding in the debate between pasture and bass sharp particle versus field can pasture was trying to attack the guest, they shot a say, Well, why don’t we strengthen the host? And let’s deal with the field bioenergetic field? Well, what is in this field?

Well, the number one element on planet Earth 36% of the Earth’s composition is iron. It’s the pro-oxidant element on this planet. Yes, it does deliver oxygen. Yeah, that’s a good thing. Like a waiter. But if you don’t have a chef to deal with it, you can have a serious problem. That’s the role that copper plays copper is the chef in the cuisine. You can see your hyphen, is I any, but the thing is, we’ve got iron and oxygen. Oxygen is the second most reactive element on the planet. We can’t live without it. We can’t age without it either. And what does that mean? It means that oxygen again, after fluorine gas and fluoride, is the second most reactive element. And therefore the stress.

I mean, I think I was probably five or six years into this journey. Now, coming up with 11 full years of doing this research. Five or six years in Joe, I realized what they meant by the term stress. It’s oxidative stress. Oh my gosh. It’s like it was like this ton of bricks. It’s like Philomela Oh my God. Oh, it’s the inability to deal with oxygen. That’s what’s causing All these problems, and the body is geared to resolving and responding to stress. And when you get into the weeds of neurotransmitters and hormones, and I know we’re going to talk about cortisol as the first-line response, it’s responding to oxygen. If it’s not being metabolized properly, if we’re not, again, if the oxygen molecule OTU, if oh two cannot be turned into two molecules of water to h2o, the body’s like, we got a problem.

Because it’s a pH that’s required for that transaction is neutral pH 7.0. So that when oh two becomes two h2o, everything’s great, but neutral pH, we can release the ADP, three of them, go over to complex five, and a Wallah, we can turn those three ADP into three magnesium, ATP. And then we have energy that the cell can recognize, and that the cell can work with, get if it’s not spelled properly, it doesn’t recognize it. It does. It’s not ATP, it’s magnesium hyphen, ATP.

Very important. We’re down in these little subtle distinctions. So going, Stan, is not necessarily our friend, oxygen is not our friend necessarily. And we’ve got to be able to spell energy, right. And there’s only one way to make energy in the body. It’s called the mitochondria. So it’s important to understand that our physiology has evolved over a very long period, very long. And there’s been this recognition of the volatility that iron and oxygen play, and being able to regulate that. And there’s only one mineral on planet earth that regulates both iron and oxygen. And that’s copper.

Amazing. And it’s like, what, what’s, what’s he talking about? And so we’re talking about in the world of homeopathy. Copper is called the General. Iron is called the foot soldier. That’s a really powerful image to the Condra, generals, and foot soldiers. Just before we started taping this, a Joe went into, I think, a very important

description of the battlefield, which I’m sure we’ll get to talking about stress, and who’s the field general, and was great. I hope we can bring that back in. But the key is, we’ve got this, we’ve got this general copper, regulating the foot soldiers. But we’ve never been taught that. We never, heard it that way. And, in the average human body, there are about 45,000 milligrams of iron. It’s a lot. But there are only about 100 milligrams of copper. So it’s a 60 to one ratio. It’s like, it’s mind-blowingly.

Big. And all we’ve been taught about is that we’re anemic. And that we’re copper toxic. No one’s told us that, well, this copper thing is really important. And if that copper goes from 100 milligrams, the 100 milligrams will fit on the head of one inch stick him talking about just a little tiny bit. But let’s take that copper down to 95 milligrams, or 90. What if we took it down? To 75. So what is a fever? So we go from 98.6 to 102. That’s a 4% differential. And we know how bad we feel massive discomfort with a 4% rise in body temperature. What do you think happens when there’s a 25% loss of bioavailable copper?

So six times a fever is like we can’t even imagine. And so then that becomes the basis of the stress is lack of the very mineral that helps us regulate oxidative stress is MIA it’s missing. And that’s not taught in Doctor school. we’re led to believe that there is such a thing as disease. And if you know anything about the Merck manual, it’s like 32,000 different conditions that are described in the manual. But there’s no protagonist. There’s not one word about copper in the Merck manual. Nada, it’s like wow, that’s Just saying. It’s I think it’s very telling. And what I learned this morning, Joe, after sending you that email that we were chatting about.

I discovered when I should have known this, but I didn’t. But there’s a very powerful copper key later called Nia coo point. See you PR o INE. And it was developed in the early 1930s. Oh, so they’ve known about this how important copper is for over 100 years. And what’s that on the heels of Oh, in 1931 Otto Warburg gets the Nobel Prize for discovering complex four, which is run by copper. But he called it iron oxidase. So right about the same time that Dr. Warburg was getting his Nobel we’re figuring out how to pull copper out of the body in a very toxic way.

And what the article was about was the fact that the process to relax vascular tissue, you know, like our arteries, and our vessel, our blood vessels. It’s copper-dependent. So all the Nitro tiles monitor files that oh, by the way, they gave a Nobel Prize in 1998. For, to figure this, that we need nitric oxide. So give a Nobel Prize to three scientists. Oh, thanks a scam. Because it was a copper deficiency all along. And they, they knew that they knew that in the early 90s. In a 9596, definitive clinical studies. And again, the body is really smart. And the body relies on copper says, hey, you know, my blood vessels are getting kind of tight.

Could you relax a little bit? And then copper gets diverted to do that. Again, it’s like, I think there’s a point where the average person’s like, what if copper grids were this important? Surely my doctor would know this. And if copper were this simple, surely I would know this. And it’s been very artfully suppressed, hidden, kind of downplayed, and it’s Matt was talking to a very noted physician yesterday, MD orthopod. Brilliant.


I said, How many times did you hear the word copper in your medical training? He was like I punched him in the face. He said I don’t think I’ve ever heard the word. And there, therein lies the problem. And you probably didn’t hear it in your training either. I’ve asked Dr. Liz if she ever heard about copper at Palmer says never heard about copper. I’ve talked to homeopaths, they don’t even know the COC about the journal. They don’t get the training.

I’ve talked to osteopaths the same thing, again, across the board, doesn’t matter what the, what the degrees are after the name, this whole focal point around we’ve got to do something with his oxygen has been suppressed. And the reason why it’s so important is that in 1956 It was Dedham Harmon, who was a Ph.D. engineer, he wasn’t, he wasn’t a doctor, but, but he became a doctor, he went to Stanford with an industrial engineer studying oxidative stress in an industrial setting.

And he wondered I wonder if this affects humans. So he decides to go to Stanford to get his degree and discovers what’s called the free radical, the oxidative stress theory of aging, which put the conventional medical system on its ear because no one had ever raised that before. And so this whole idea of we talk about stress and the way I describe it, and I think you’ll appreciate this job, is it all the people that you work with all your clients? They’ve got stress in their lives, right? They’ve all their adrenal Lee, they’re generally burned out, right? Well, we have stress in our world.

We have oxidative stress in our bodies. That’s the conserved metabolic response is, oh, I got to do something, and the best definition of stress I’ve ever come across. It’s by Mark Hyman, who’s a very noted functional MD at Cleveland Clinic. Is this is the definition? Stress is the body’s inability to metabolize energy for the mind, to respond to its environment. What a beautiful amalgamation of all these ideas. And if we can’t make energy, that is the ultimate stressor is if we cannot make energy, then we get stressed out.

And, and here’s the fine print. And then I’ll turn it back over to you to kind of take us into the next stage. But the fine point is if you are not turning oxygen into water, and the way you do those, you activate oxygen and turn it into two h2o. If you cannot do that, to release the energy molecules, if you cannot do that, the oxygen becomes either superoxide or hydrogen peroxide, or the hydroxyl radical. And when that happens, those are three different categories of oxidative stress.

And then that might mix with nitrogen and create peroxynitrite or might mix with sulfur. And then we’ve got, you know, we just have a complete, chaotic mess on our hands. But the point is oxidative stress means I have energy deficiency. And that’s why the book has that title. cure your fatigue, because fatigue implies oxidative stress. And if you have oxidative stress, you do not have optimal energy production. I hope that all made sense as I went through it.


Dr. Joel Rosen: That was great. It was great. One of my very first questions after getting the segue from last today’s was, hey, Morley, in your book, you mentioned how we have stress outside of the body. And we have physical and emotional environmental and, and metabolic stress. But, at the end of the day, it all equals oxidative stress. Can you explain that? So you already did I don’t know if we were already on the same wavelength or not.

But yes, you already explained that. And I think it’s important to just rehash, like, a lot of people will say, Well, I don’t have a stress life I mentally my family like is not stressing me financially. But there are these HIDDEN stressors that you mentioned, in terms of oxidations. And even in the book, you talk about nutritional deficiencies or other things that are environmentally influencing our body that we may not necessarily have a temperature gauge on consciously but don’t deny or take out the fact that it’s happening in our body.

And what’s happening is, is we’re creating reactive oxidative species or free radicals that create a lot of damage. Now, to your point as well, I do feel like when you were with everything that you just mentioned, I in my head, I have this thing that suggests like conversion of one language to another. So you have like digital to analog, or you have the frequencies of the stressors of the world, whether they’re perceived or real, doesn’t matter, because it creates the same process in the body are the same, I guess domino effects in the body.

And that was so great about what Han saw you from the research that I’m doing, which was prosperous at the time, like, hey, all of these stressors or illnesses, or diagnoses that are all in their little special little corners of what they are, create the same reactivities in the body generalized reactivities and when in that report that I made, the thing where he went wrong was when he said it was adrenal fatigue or exhaustion and then it just kind of created a cascade of let’s, let’s throw the baby out with the bathwater, and every single thing we do, and just fight tooth and nail for the crazies that say they have this adrenal fatigue thing that doesn’t even exist and it’s insufficiency and it besides the point it misses out on the fact that fundamentally, stress from the outside that gets converted for to a different language on the inside is all about reactive oxidative species are free radicals. And like you’ve said, we’ve evolved so many generations where that oxidative stress is favorable for pathogens that we experience in a bell-shaped curve.

But what I think the connecting dots that I get from the copper deficiency is iron and iron oxidation. And the Yin Yang theory is that that creates the sympathetic fight or flight the Oxidants that signal the immune system, get the army to defend the base, and then once that’s turned off, from available copper It switches the signaling of the sympathetic from the iron to turn it on, it has the signaling of the copper to turn it off into the parasympathetic activation.

So that’s kind of a little bit of a take that I take right when you tell me this. So with that being said, we let’s talk about how stress, specifically with the lack of copper, and actually, this is probably a really good time to get into how you continue down your journey, and coined the term the magnesium burn rate. Because, you know, for me, I didn’t understand like, Yes, I understand how important magnesium is, but not in the context that if all of that analog information from the environment is triggering a common response in the body, which is to create oxidative stress, get it to a bell curve, deal with the things that are going on so that your body can maintain homeostasis, turn the parasympathetic back on with bioavailable copper, and go on your merry way.

That doesn’t happen because it’s like an accelerator in a car that just gets stuck, you can’t take it off, you know, stuck to the floor, which creates a magnesium burn rate. What is that? What’s going on there, and that would maybe give a good sort of platform to begin into those three things we want to talk about.


Morley Robbins: So again, we go back to the energy molecule, it’s spelled magnesium, a hyphen, ATP. What folks don’t realize is that the magnesium ion sits between the second and third phosphate groups. And when we need energy, and the reason why it’s there is it stabilizes that molecule. Magnesium is it does not necessarily provide energy, but it’s a stabilizer it’s very, very important. And when we need energy, we got to leave off one of those phosphates, what as soon as you leave off that third phosphate, magnesium leaves, it goes right into our urine, it’s just it’s a, it’s a biological response to stress.

Because back to Heimann, we got to make an energy to respond to stress, when we perceive that there’s something wrong. We are wired as a species. To create energy to deal with it, we got, we got to resolve it somehow. And if we can’t make energy, then we’ve got a problem. That’s when we get into this negative downward spiral. And to stress, as the oxidative stress builds, as the stress in our world builds, oxidative stress in our body builds, the magnesium loss accelerates.

And it’s, oh my gosh, there are scores and scores of scientists who have studied this phenomenon, probably the most noted is Mildred Seeley, she was a famous physician, and she was a drug researcher. And when she realized that the drugs that she was studying were causing magnesium was to left Big Pharma to teach about the importance of magnesium. So again, it’s just it’s an end, the mistake that I made a mistake that a lot of people make is that when you lose magnesium, you will get symptoms, you will get aches and pains, you will you’ll you’re going to develop hypertension or whatever, whatever, however, it manifests. And so there’s this very simplistic response, let’s just put some more magnesium in the body and everything we find.

And I fell for that for years. I was like, just take more magnesium Damn it. And it wasn’t until I was reading a paper by an Italian researcher who talked about the greatest stress to humanity is iron stress. And that’s what it all clicked. And so the iron is rising. Why? Because we’re not. We’re not burning oxygen properly. We’re not activating it. We’re not making energy. And what happens and this is some very important research.

Then, the article I sent over this morning was by Dr. Gatlin. Well, five years before that, he wrote a very important chapter with one of his colleagues’ corolla. And what they did was they took mitochondria, from copper-deficient animals, rodents, to see what would happen, but how do they respond to stress? They are put under stress So what does that mean?

They, they created a state of hypoxia. That’s very stressful when you don’t have oxygen. It’s the ultimate stressor. And so what happened was, this is important. This is probably one of the most important things I found in years and years, is what they discovered Culatta and, and veteran. Was iron accumulated in the mitochondria?

Oh, oh, well, that’s, that’s not good. Because, because what’s happening is that oxygens not burning, right? So it’s becoming an oxidant. It’s becoming a reactive species, right? It’s becoming a free radical, it’s mixing with the iron, it’s building in the mitochondria. And guess what’s being tripped.

All these kinase enzymes that are geared to stress, heat stress, they all got a little magnesium attached to them, and boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, we got all this magnesium leaving the body, all because we’re not burning oxygen, we’re not activating it properly, to create energy. And everything is geared to all of our physiology, all of our metabolism is geared to making energy. And if we’re not making energy, things don’t work, right. And it isn’t just making energy.

There’s this symbiosis between making energy, making proteins, recycling calcium, recycling iron, and so on downlighter, they’re about 15 to 20 different functions that the mitochondria are responsible for, and picture, a sophisticated watch with all the gears that are playing with each other. That’s what’s going on in the mitochondria. If these gears work, and these gears move, then these gears for the right way and proteins are getting folded, right? And like if that is, if we’re not making energy, the gears don’t work, right, do they? And suddenly, everything comes to a standstill inside the mitochondria.

And the and the iron starts to rise. And it’s creating havoc inside the tissue, and, and who are the first responders to stress her adrenals and her thyroid. But that doesn’t mean that they run the body. They’re their first responders. They’re like the policeman and the firemen. It’s like, wow, if they get called up, that we better pay attention to what’s going on. And that’s the the the mistake that’s been made, and in the healing arts is to create this illusion that policemen and firemen run society. And they don’t respond to problems, but they do not run society.


Dr. Joel Rosen: So yeah, really great information. One of the AHA that I had as well in terms of always thinking about what happens at the 30,000 views, foot level happens at the cellular level first, and then it distills its way down to our systems working together. So it behooves us to get to the quote-unquote root cause versus reductionistic. Lee says, Take this, for that, or this, that for this, to your point, like quite easily in terms of your energy production isn’t happening at the level that it needs to at the demand that it needs to. And as a result, your body makes concessions.

And, and or another way of saying it’s not making energy as effectively as it can is is it’s not breathing as effectively as it can it’s not activating hydrogen and oxygen, not only to produce ATP and energy but to produce water. And so it kind of hit on me, okay, well, you have these mineral corticoids, that sense, you know, analog to digital, that things that are happening on a cellular level, wait, we’re not even making water anymore.

Now we got a signal, some aldosterone to retain sodium and so that we can so these all and then the other thing that was a game-changer for me for thyroid as well was, I think I might have mentioned this on the last time. But when Dr. Bob Marshall said, Hey, thyroid, all it is, if you want to think about thyroid hormone is it brings oxygen to the cell Morely that was a game-changer for me, because I had never really thought about it that way. And I thought, okay, if it brings oxygen to the cell, and at the cellular level, we’re not making water and ATP.

And we’ve already signaled through the HPA axis this release of aldosterone to hold on to sodium so we retain our water. At the same time, it would make sense for us if we’re not breathing accurately, let’s put the mechanisms in place to lower the oxygen, oxygen delivery to the cell as a result as well. And then what gets so frustrating is reductionistic.

We know your thyroid is acting incorrectly, even though it’s doing what it needs to do. We’re just going to blast you You know it with more information and forget about what, why, and do that and then to your point in the book, and maybe we can segue into how important cholesterol is. But the logic of bringing down cholesterol, or the logic of also Rula, plasm is bad when it’s high, we got to lower that as well. So, but the first question before we get to that is in the book, which I think is important, too, because this is a reductionistic approach that even some in they think they know, worlds are, hey, I know this is a mitochondrial problem.

So let’s just use mitochondrial nutrients, and pump that up much of the same reductionistic approach of supporting the HPA axis at that 30,000 view foot or supporting thyroid at that 30,000 view foot. You mentioned in the book, mitochondria kind of really, I don’t remember the exact words that you use, but you know, it’s not having the keys to the car or the gas in the car. So maybe explain that analogy first. And what that means.


Morley Robbins: This thyroid hormone doesn’t deliver oxygen. It’s an oxygen sensor. Is This, Right?


Dr. Joel Rosen: Exactly.


Morley Robbins: Right. There’s oxygen being is oxygen being burned, right? And if it’s, if it’s not, if it’s not smelling, right, then I’m going to send a signal back to the liver. We need more bioavailable copper. That’s so endocrinology, and I call an endocrinologist. They have it backward. Everything’s backward. And so everything revolves around oxygen in our body.

And so the mitochondria again, I’m having this debate with myself, and maybe I can have it with you because you’re enjoying the world of metabolic insanity. is copper, the brains of the outfit, or the mitochondria, the brains of the outfit, because it’s not the nucleus and nucleolus asst Xerox machine, it’s just, it’s just doing what it’s been programmed to do.

And it’s responding to inputs. But it’s not running the show. It’s an idea that nucleolus is like one this is an insult or intellect in our integrity. But the mitochondria is the that is the pulse of the organism. 40 quadrillion of them? Well, how do they communicate with each other? That was it’s a provocative idea. There’s a metabolic pathway and NPK. I don’t talk about it in the book. But that might be a discussion downstream for us. It’s fascinating to get into, the Cain and Abel of the body, and NPK and mTOR. Mind-blowing stuff about that. So the mitochondria are sentient parts of our, our metabolism, they are aware of things being present not being present. And if and if oxygen and iron start to build up, they start to act out.

No, they’re the ones that are signaling apoptosis, hey, we can’t do it. Let’s bring this thing down. Let’s bring the cell down. And it’s not just a mitochondrion, it’s like, it might be 500 or 1000. mitochondria have got to somehow align their interests and say, we can’t process the inputs here. We don’t have the magnesium or the copper with retinol. Retinol.

That’s it. Oh, oh my gosh, it’s one of the most important components. It’s an electron carrier, retinol, vitamin A that no one talks about? It’s, it’s an electron carrier. Well, that’s a game-changer. That puts things on completed or, or the fact that that one of the derivatives of retinol, the nuclear receptors, AR AR AR XR. Well, if RSR doesn’t hook up with VDR and active vitamin D, you don’t have any vitamin D function. Oh, so then what you’re telling me is that vitamin A is more important than vitamin D. That’s exactly what we’re talking about. And so people don’t appreciate the sophistication of these metabolites inside the mitochondria to allow for proper communication.

And, you know, there’s something in the mitochondria that has what’s called the electron transport chain has four different complexes. They’re called respiratory complexes, they are responding to oxygen, and they’re responding to electrons moving this way, and hydrogens being pumped into intermembrane space. And then all of that is supposed to come together and complex to make water so that the ADP can go to complex five, where we can make ATP, magnesium ATP, when, etc. and complex five are working together. It’s called oxidative phosphorylation. So we go from, etc, to oxidative phosphorylation, when the mitochondria say, I’m at peace, I’m in harmony, everything’s cool. If that doesn’t happen, though, you have something called the uncoupling protein inside the mitochondria. And the hydrogens that were supposed to go through complex fines, are going to use CP. What is UCP?

It’s the mechanism for inflammation. When the body senses that it can’t work properly, it’s going to channel the hydrogens through there. To create heat. It’s all it’s in the literature use UCP is it’s, it’s a mechanism for generating heat, not energy, there’s a difference between heat and energy. Again, it’s like steam and channeling that steam to move a locomotive or move a paddle on a boat, well, you’re just creating steam. That’s, that’s not gonna do anything for us. And that’s the sophistication on the mitochondria is both

a single mitochondrion trying to figure out what’s going on. But then you begin to extrapolate into cellular activity, but then get to a tissue level activity, much less a, you know, the organ level, it’s like, wow, there’s a lot of communication that needs to take place. And this is an important point for people to understand. Then, in the earlier life forms. We evolved I mean, the yeast, that the model for understanding human mitochondria is the yeast mitochondria.

So basically, our mitochondria have evolved from yeast, which means that some part of our anatomy evolved from us, right. So it’s like kind of a mind-blowing thought, but the thing is, mitochondria are critical parts of the signaling, and the earlier life forms didn’t have a nervous system. Copper was the messenger to communicate across that organism. Copper is the original nervous system. And you as a chiropractor, and the reason why I admire chiropractors so much is you by the very mechanism of touching people. You are stimulating that nervous system in very powerful ways.

You’re down-regulating this, the SNS, you know, the fight or flight response, and you’re up-regulating, rest and recover the parasympathetic. So you’re down, regulating sympathetic up-regulating parasympathetic, which is incredibly important, you know that intuitively, because of all the work you’ve done. But at a metabolic level, people don’t understand the power of your touch, and what it’s doing to improve cellular signaling and communication. And again, it’s I don’t think that’s a, it’s not an understood byproduct of chiropractic, which I think is very unfortunate. Not enough people know about that.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, actually, just as an aside, I know, like, one of the quotes I was thinking about is aging from David Sinclair. And it’s a breakdown of communication. Right. That’s what aging is. And then you look at also to that, one of the things that I wanted to talk to you about was, and we’ll probably get it into the next time too, is it an NPK, and the balance between that and mTOR.

And how to nerf two and keep one in our antioxidant response elements, or when we’re creating free radicals and our mitochondria aren’t breathing correctly, acts as a sensor, again, to communicate to turn on the recyclability and clearing out or build then because the build is important, but you know, I know in a time and place, but what I was going to say is one of the enzymes that inhibit or slow down that NADPH oxidase enzyme is oxytocin. And oxytocin is the enzyme or the hug drug, right? So you’re touching, you’re feeling that is slowing down that NADPH.

That would create a lot of those free radicals if the cells aren’t breathing optimally. Again, there’s a balance between, hey, we need to create free radicals when there’s a proper time in place. But if it’s stuck in the accelerator on position all the time, and that’s causing the magnesium depletion, it’s creating the oxidation, the just running into the ground that oxytocin will inhibit that process. So that’s an interesting connection there in terms of that as well.

So, alright, let’s try, let’s go into now. Okay, so we’ll kind of summarize as you said is we don’t respire, we don’t breathe effectively at the cellular level. And we have mechanisms and sensors to communicate at the organ and system level to deal with this. Overcome, that’s homeostasis, and aloe stasis and hormesis. And there’s a certain amount of theory that you want to put your body in per Turborater, under stress, so that you are metabolically flexible, and you are adaptable.

However, with that being said, if you don’t have the optimal copper to make this process happen, as well as all the other enzymes, and you’re not exporting iron out of tissues and delivering it to the cells and the organs in the systems, you’re creating oxidation, you’re burning through your magnesium, vitamin A is a very important part about all of that. So on my level, per se, I’m working with people that are exhausted and burnt out. And they identify it as, Hey, I got an adrenal fatigue problem. And then they say, well, better yet an HPA Axis problem, and

I say even better yet a cellular energy production problem. But it’s still really great morally, to do a Dutch test and look at some of the enzymes to get a, I guess, litmus test of what’s going on in the body? How far along are we along that continuum, so that we can customize a recovery strategy. And to your point, when I’m playing at five and six standard deviations down the road, it’s all about getting cellular energy happening effectively, again, it stops and ends there. I mean, there’s nothing you can say about if you’re not breathing effectively. And hypoxia is the biggest stressor we could have.

You got to restore that. So So I guess the first mechanism that I think’s quite fascinating, is when that magnesium isn’t available. One of the things that our body does is liberate fatty acids. So let’s kind of maybe go down how that is one of the stress consequences as well. So people could be aware of what’s going on there.


Morley Robbins: Very, very important point. Oh, you know, people need to ask why would the body do that? Why would the body be releasing fatty acids? Gosh, guys, we’ve been trained to say, well, that’s going to create heart disease, isn’t it? Like, no. When you understand, let’s go through energy production. Before there was oxygen, we, organisms would ferment sugars. And when you ferment sugar, you’re going to yield ATP.

Wow. Okay, big deal. The introduction of oxygen into the equation when we were able to activate that oxygen and, and harness that oxygen it’s about harnessing the oxygen. We went from two ATP up to four burnings if we’re burning sugar, not fermenting it but burning it. We’ve got 34 ATP. But if we’re burning fat 140 ATP, the mitochondria are designed to burn fat. It’s so it’s so obvious. And what’s my proof of that? In 11 years, 1000s of articles, how many have I found that talked about burning fat?

How much what the yield is one article 7000 articles, one, one article talked about the importance of burning fat. That’s just that’s screaming proof and people like that. That doesn’t like proof. To me. That’s only one article, though. Yeah, you got to flip everything around. If they’re not talking about it, that means it’s really important. And so now it’s just it’s so obvious. And so with fatty acids get released. It’s a very, man, we’re getting into the weeds here, buddy. I hope people are ready for this. But when you get into fatty acids, it’s going to mobilize a response. And one of the enzymes that have been released is called phosphor. Die esterase to hmm, there was never talked about that.

What’s important is that if if you can’t stop Phospho die Astros to you can’t burn fatty acids. Oh, that’s problem p p d two Fosso disaster is two is it’s the brake for fatty acid metabolism, the put on your thinking capital Who do you think stops Phospho digesters to in its tracks and its carbon copper stops that mechanism so that the beta-oxidation enzymes can burn fat properly so that we can restore energy. And we’re going at 140 miles per gallon instead of 32 miles per gallon, big difference, way more weight significantly different than cancer metabolism, which is two miles per gallon.

Cancer metabolism is preventing sugars, folks, that’s what it’s all about. And we need lots of cells to make up for the difference, the delta for making two, but we need 140. Well, that means we need 70 times more cells to make up for. And that’s what proliferation is all about. And what’s the break for proliferation, retinol, ding, ding, ding. And what people don’t know is that when you’re taking vitamin D, like there’s no tomorrow.

drinking bucketfuls because you’re afraid of some mythical Psyops and you’re shutting down vitamin A metabolism. Therefore, you’re opening up the tissue to cancer metabolism. People don’t know that. But the point is that he asked metabolism is Barnum one of the most misunderstood mechanisms on the planet, especially in human physiology. Because we’ve all been trained, like circus bears to believe that fat is something to be afraid of. Again, we’re back to Rebecca flipping things around everything black is white, white is black.

And people don’t realize that that is our friend, that that is the biggest source of energy to allow us to respond to the Hyman quotation, oh, I’ve got stressed, I can’t respond to it. Let me give my mind some energy. So it can perceive what’s going on and come up with a solution. But if I can’t come up with energy, because my adrenals and thyroid are being attacked by the food system, then my mind shuts down. And I get overwhelmed. And then I go into what fight or flight and what’s fight or flight about running from the bear.

And what’s it going to trigger? Oh, yeah, it’s going to trigger adrenaline and cortisol, big time. And then suddenly, we’ve got oxidative stress on steroids because these very powerful hormones are designed to move minerals very fast. Again, they don’t run the body, they respond to oxidative stress. And people need to understand that there is this conserved response that if oxygen is not being burned, right, because that PDE, too, messed up fatty acid metabolism, because it’s missing copper because it’s not in the diet, or because I’m losing it, because of ascorbic acid or high zinc intake or 15. Other things we could talk about, oh, my gosh, I didn’t know all that.

And that’s the beauty of these conversations is people need to appreciate that there’s an elegance, and an enormity to this, but there’s a simplicity to it. And that all of these cells that we’re worried about, are responded to. It’s so important that you grasp that that under stress, fatty acids get released. Oh, wow, that’s important. But the average person would say, that doesn’t sound good, when in fact, that’s the beauty and the wisdom of our physiology saying, I know how to make energy in a big way.

But I need a catalyst, the beta-oxidation enzymes run on copper, and you cannot absorb copper in your diet. If you don’t have fat in your diet. You think Ancel Keys didn’t know that back in the 50s. And so if you don’t have copper in your tissue, you can’t metabolize fat, it gets released under stress. They go Bongo that’s it. Does that make sense?


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, it just it points to the simplicity of if your body at the foundational level especially at the survival level does these things to survive, then those would be the inherent functions or systems of the body that we want to preserve and learn from and not reductionistic Lee think it’s broken and we could pharmaceutically repair that and so what I think about even just three examples of that, as what you just mentioned is under stress, we should be able to get into beta-oxidation, to yield more energy to overcome the stress, because ultimately all stress is energy-dependent because of oxidation. So that’s number one, which in this case, again, is copper-dependent.

The other one, which maybe we won’t talk about too much today, but is when the body is under stress. And there are all these oxidation radicals and the cells aren’t breathing. Effectively, magnesium is being depleted irons overproduced or consumed and stuck and not moving coppers depleted all of the above, then our body creates more cholesterol to use as a sinkhole for those oxygen radicals and then up Nope, we got to get rid of cholesterol because it’s bad. And then, of course, there is the, there was another one in there that I was going to use that I had forgotten about.

But that’s okay. So it’s just amazing, though, as far as one of the things that I like to teach too, is that concept of metabolic flexibility, and being able to have the ability to burn different fuels. And the irony here is one of the main things that trigger the PDE to or the enzyme that stops the beta-oxidation from happening right away is processed foods and refined sugars and insulin going off the rails, which already kind of predetermines that you’re not going to be able to get into beta-oxidation because you’ve messed that up. It’s kind of like, on the one hand, you’ve created the need to get into beta-oxidation, for the same reason that you can’t get into beta-oxidation, right?

Your body is doubly fighting to get in there. But that’s in that book. I’m not sure if we talked about it off the air in terms of the metabolic cool and how Robert Lustig talks about those three enzymes, like he puts those three enzymes together, it says the PDE two, then he talks about camp K. And then he talks about mTOR. And really, those should be coordinated in such a way to preserve survival, right, and in this case, know when to grow, and repair and build, and then in other ways know when to turn off and recycle and clear out.

And based on not having fundamental bioavailable copper. And all the reasons why it’s being depleted will create that disharmony and that disharmony ultimately, you know, as another way of saying dissonance or having an incongruency between the messages that are being sent and the responses that are being yielded as a result of those messages being synced, creating even more internal strife and more energy.

And that’s the tough part is, how do you break that mechanism? How do you put the mechanics the wrenches in the mechanics? Oh, it is getting in the weeds. So let’s bring it back out of the weeds and talk a little bit about we have a root cause protocol in your book. And like I alluded to last time, yes, it’s great to have an income. And yes, we want to make sure the cells are breathing effectively. But in your stops, which I think are simply brilliant, are the things that we need to stop doing that maybe with good intentions, we’re doing it but sometimes no good intention goes on punished. And we’re making energy production, cellular respiration, free radical production, all worse. So what I guess, the Genesis and what are those stops normally.

So if I’m listening to this, and it’s a bit above my head, but I kind of can’t get the concepts of, hey, this is great information. I realized that I’m exhausted and I’m tired. And I don’t have enough magnesium. I don’t have enough bioavailable copper. My cells aren’t respiring properly, what’s this 12 stops or I don’t know if it’s 12 now or 15. But what are they in? What’s going on there?


Morley Robbins: Yeah. Get into that. Real quick. quickly respond to what you’re referring to three key PD. I don’t know that he would talk about this. I have I’ve got the book but I’ve not read it. But PDE two is stopped in its tracks by copper by bioavailable copper gotta have that. Very, very important. NPK is activated by copper. They don’t talk about that much. There’s only one study again one study that goes into it was a rabbit study. And the conclusion was man and PK is running on the energy of copper Important to know that and then third, and mTOR stopped in its tracks by copper. And so again, you’re picking up on the importance of energy production. That’s really what this is all about. We got to be able to make energy consistently, efficiently, endlessly. That’s what life is all about. So the reason for the stops again, people always let me give with what’s that expression? Credit words do?

It was a conversation with my oldest son, Matt. He’s a, he’s an electrical engineer, smart cookie. And he was beginning to pick up what I was beginning to focus on. He said, Well, Dad, you know what, I think you need us to do this. Don’t do that. I was like, Oh, wow, that’s a great idea. Well, that phrase, do this, some do that became stops and starts. And what was the focal point of the origin, that the true origin of the root cause protocol, again, Truth in Lending, was an article by Ray P. Brilliant, lipid biologists guy’s genius? And his article on Iron toxicity. I don’t think that’s the right title.

But it was about the downside of iron, too much iron. He talks about, towards the end of the article, he says, to my knowledge, no one has ever developed a diet to increase the production of pseudo plasma. And Joe, when I read that, it was like, I put my finger on a light bulb socket, like, whoa, that’s what I’m going to do. And, I mean, I’m very grateful to him for that phrase, you know, no one’s ever developed a diet. And it started as to how do we increase Biovail Copper, as defined by so Reuleaux plasma?

Because that’s the blue protein. It’s the master antioxidant in our body that nobody knows about? No, no doctor that you went to, is wondering, Gee, I wonder what their Surulere plasm status is as, especially as they’re examining a blood test or a Dutch test or urinalysis, where they’re not thinking about, gee, I wonder what’s happening to the oxidative stress in their body? Because there’s not enough rule plasm? But, but the point is, it started with two stops and two starts. How do we, what’s the most important thing that we can do to stop?


Dr. Joel Rosen: The erosion of the real person was iron, I bet then stopping at value number one, stop, right?


Morley Robbins: Number one was learn and score because, okay, then the starts, you know, we need, we need magnesium, and we need retinol. It’s like, let’s wait, you know, if people just did that, oh, my gosh, to make those two changes. But as I got into it, the stops, I began to look at the world through the prism of energy. What is killing energy production in our mitochondria? What’s changing the ability to activate oxygen and turn it into the water? So we can release energy?

And it’s, that’s a completely different lens to use. And most practitioners who are into this, if this then that they’ve been, they’re just very prescriptive in there what we if you had that symptom, then you must do this. It’s like, well, let’s pull it back. Let’s open up the curtain and say, what’s happening here? What, why is the body responding this way? What’s the Meccan?

What’s the metabolic mechanism that’s creating these symptoms, the pain, the inflammation, they, whatever the ache in the joint or whatever it happens to be, and understand, where did it come from? If there is no disease, people need to understand that there is no medical disease. It’s just a story. But what does exist is stress-induced mineral loss, which then leads to metabolic dysfunction. And what I appreciate you all is that you, you do understand it.

So you, you, you now see it from that frame of reference. But what’s happened is people have become trained and certified, and then recertified that they keep going back to the internet as their source of information, which is a scary place to be. And I recognize I’m on the internet and let conversations on the internet. So yet, you have to have a certain sense of judgment about it. But the thing is, iron is not your friend. Supplemental iron is poison. And if you don’t believe that, read the book by Jim Moon iron the most toxic element. It’s he was an iron toxicologist. And he has information in that book that’ll make your toes curl. And this idea that there’s iron deficiency anemia.

It’s one of the biggest lies on the planet. Although by, by in terms of, of importance, the World Health Organization says, iron deficiency is the number one nutrient deficiency on planet Earth. Wow. What’s, what’s the number one enzyme deficiency? G six PD? Well, wow. And then you find out that G six PD has magnesium-dependent? Well, that begins to change things around a little bit. Because what does iron deficiency mean? means I am stuck in the tissue causing magnesium loss. It’s not showing up in the blood. So it looks like it’s low. And that that iron stuck causing magnesium was is causing G six PD to misfire. Wow, we’re, we’re at the very essence of the problem.

And so we’ve got to deal with the iron. And then the whole mindset on planet Earth is I need more iron, I’m anemic. And, and I’ve got to, I’ve got to get it stored. You don’t store iron? You, you use it, you recycle it, you’re moving at constant, you’re circulating iron. It’s a constant. It’s gotta be it’s like a juggling act. Do we want the juggler to have, all the pins up in the air? Or do we want to say well, in his arms, let’s just anyone could do that. And we can hold all the pins. But but but let’s talk about keeping the iron in constant movement throughout the body recycling inside the mitochondria. And one of the key findings and we talked about a little bit ago, colada and Caitlin. Oh, well, if we’re not making energy, we can’t recycle iron.


And it starts of sorts to build up with and the mitochondria start to bloat with iron. I think that might have been the start of what celiac was finding that all this tissue was expanding what’s the, what’s the stress response? The be alarm state, right? Then we have resistance, right? And then we have collapse of the body just can hold on anymore. So the whole thing that all the tissue swells he saw was a 30,000 animal experiment. All these organs would grow in size. We get it we’re back to mitochondria breaking down mitochondria swelling, fluid is building up because it can’t be properly recycled. And it’s like, we’re back to simple concepts here. So then we’ve got, you know, ascorbic acid.

Well, we take ascorbic acid, because we’ve been told that it’s going to increase our iron. It’s like, well, maybe it’s going to drive it into the tissue, which is not really where you want it. And what’s it going to do. And in addition to that, it blows up sumo plasmin. It’s in the literature is there are a dozen or more articles about it. So this rule plasm blows up, copper comes leaking out. And then the spotlights, I’ll say, well, copper is the cause of the problem. Oh, copper causes cancer. It’s like, Oh, my God, it’s like, there’s the whole field, the phalanx is of physicians who believe that and so ascorbic acid is metabolic poison to the soil plasm protein.

So then, if we don’t have copper, inside, it’s protein regulating iron, well, then iron will begin to get stored in bigger and bigger levels. Well, then we’ve got calcium. People have been trained to take more calcium, Oh, I must have more calcium. And because I have asked your opinion, I have asked you a process. I have this, I have that. And so like, wait a minute, why does the calcium keep coming out of the bone matrix? Why don’t we start there? Can we talk about the fact that the acid phosphatase enzyme that breaks down the bone matrix is activated by iron?

That might be a good thing to talk about. And that its opposite is alkaline phosphatase, which builds up the bone matrix is activated by magnesium. Oh, wow, that’s I never heard that. And so then suddenly, we find out that 46% of the body’s copper is found in the bone marrow. Oh, wow. That’s, that’s, that sounds like it’s really important. Well, it is because copper is really important for ascorbic oxidase. It’s not it’s not just a plant enzyme. It’s a human enzyme. It’s really important for the bone matrix.

Lysyl oxidase needs to knit things together, collagen and Lesson. Oh yeah, we got to make energy, the process of making bone requires energy. So maybe that cytochrome c oxidase would be a good thing too. And those are just three that we can quickly enumerate. And so what is calcium do? Calcium taking as a supplement. But what key dye was able to document in 2013? At Vanderbilt University, was it when you have twice as much calcium in your diet as you have magnesium, that’s the ratio of every supplement you’ve ever taken to the one, it starts magnesium absorption.

And what guy Abraham, a world-renowned OBGYN taught at UCLA Medical Center, found is that when you have twice as much magnesium as calcium, you ensure calcium absorption and utilization. And, and key dye was able to verify that as well. And so we’ve can, people don’t know about those studies. They just know that, oh, my doctor told me I need calcium. Or my doctor told me I need vitamin D.

And what is vitamin D? It’s calcium on steroids. People don’t understand what that phrase means calcium on steroids. It means that every hormone, and that’s what vitamin D is, it’s hormone D. Every hormone has a specific site of action. And a specific job-specific site is the intestine. It’s its job to absorb calcium at the expense of magnesium. Oh, and so what people need to appreciate is that when the calcium in their blood panel looks slow, or high, low, or high, it’s a clinical sign of magnesium deficiency.

Calcium is regulated by magnesium. Iron is regulated by copper. Vitamin D is regulated by retinol. People don’t know that. , those fundamental metabolic truths have been very artfully suppressed. And if you’re if people are trusting what their doctor says, what their neighbor says, what their best friends are, they got to rethink it. Because we live in a very unstable time. Now.

It’s, it’s interesting, we would call it would be appropriate to call this time, Byzantine, we’ve been trained to think that Byzantine was a chaotic empire, when in fact, it was a beautiful empire where there was order, Law and Order was its exact opposite of what we’ve been trained to believe. The Romans, those are the people we should be questioning, you know, the bread and circus, you know, give them bread and circus and they’ll be fine. Well, we haven’t evolved from that. We’re, we’re back at Bread, bread, and circus. We’re being entertained on TV. And there, they’re feeding us and we don’t see it.

It’s so it’s so subtle. So the stops are, are going after all of these sacred cows of nutrition. One another one is a daily multivolume. People take a daily multivitamin because they think it’s an insurance policy. I’ve got all my bases covered. They don’t realize it’s a death certificate. That all the ratios are wrong. It’s all synthetic. The B vitamins come from coal tar derivatives. But people may have heard that phrase called Tartarus. What does it mean?

Well, when you begin to pull the curtain back, you find out there are 10,000 different components of coal tar derivatives. Here’s the mind-blowing part. They only have names for 5000. It’s like, well, how do you know that there’s another 5000. But you don’t have names for it. It’s like, and that’s where all the B vitamins come from. Oh, and what’s called are derivatives.

It’s a byproduct of the petroleum industry. And whose idea was that? Rockefeller, that’s where it came from this idea? Well, we’ve got an industrial waste product, let’s turn it into medicine. And let’s make B vitamins out of it. It’s like, these synthetic B vitamins that people take are affecting their iron metabolism and messing with their copper metabolism. But people don’t know that. It’s again, it’s all lost. And so there are just some real important components of the nutritional paradigm. Another one is zinc. Oh, I, I need my zinc. I’ve got a cold, right. I gotta. I gotta stop there.

I got to stop that cold and I got to stimulate my immune system. Oh my gosh, the confusion around that is just frightening. And what does and I’m a big meat eater. I don’t want people to think that I’m some kind of pristine A little brat, I love my meat. And that’s a great source of zinc. But that’s a different kind of zinc, from my standpoint than what you get in a bottle. And so the zinc in a bottle is going to trigger very important protein in our it does in our intestinal tract. There are these, we’ve, we’ve got, let’s pretend this hand is a is it a terrorist site and these are the villi, right?

But that in between the villi are our mucosal cells, you mucous, mucosal cells make mucus, and the mucosal cells, they’re smart. And when they get exposed to the food is coming in up here, and it’s going to go get processed through the internal site. And then this is the bloodstream sound here. But when suddenly comes in with zinc. Nickel cell says, Oh my gosh, I better make some metallic tiny. It triggers the production of telephony. And people don’t realize that by doing that, they’re binding up copper 1000 times stronger than their binding of zinc. So effectively, what you’ve done is you’ve taken copper offline.


And Tara site enterocyte. Has mitochondria that must have copper. If they can’t make energy. Guess what happens to the enterocytes, they start to pull apart. Because it’s a magnetic attraction based on energy production. They stay together, there’s, there’s, there’s integrity, to energy. And when and when energy production is at its peak, that the cells stay together, and then the proteins can’t slip through the cracks. That’s what is driving all this gut dysbiosis is a rabid misunderstanding about what does it take to make energy? What does it take to support the miracle cells, and what do miracle cells thrive on? Copper, they love copper.

This is there’s like, any kind of mucus in the body has a relationship with copper because it’s the first barrier between the outside world and our intimate world. And it’s got to be processed so that there are so many different facets. But what happened last year was someone concocted this COVID cocktail, ascorbic acid, vitamin D, and zinc. And people didn’t realize what that was doing to their copper status, the bioavailability of their copper status, and it was sending it into the sub-basement.

And then you add the fear factor on top of that, they wouldn’t get that into a subsequent conversation. People need to know about the emotion of fear, and how fear creates hypoxia. And then hypoxia is going to shut down energy production. So you have this double whammy of a cocktail and an emotion that is perfectly designed to kill energy production. And why is that important?

Because the immune system runs on energy. The immune system is an intelligent sentient being that’s got to be monitored. Hey, what’s going on? What’s happening? Well, I know what it is, I got to respond to that. And that takes intelligence. But intelligence takes energy. If you don’t have energy, your IQ just collapses. So there are their other stops, but I think people began to get a sense of, Wow, maybe there is more to the story. Maybe the things that I didn’t know about that. It isn’t just this rote memorization of must take, you know, 10,000 milligrams of ascorbic acid must take 5000 I use a vitamin D must take 50 milligrams of zinc, that that that isn’t really in your best interest. And they’re not enough people talking about that I appreciate the chance to have this exchange.

And it’s just that people don’t realize the level of programming. And Doctor, listen, I just went to see the matrix, part four, and mind-blowing. People need to watch that movie, you need to understand the level of programming that’s out there. We’ve all got that, that cord in the back of our neck, and we don’t realize it as we’re watching TV, or as they’re watching this video or that video on YouTube. All they’re doing is just programming our thought process and our response.

And we like oh, yeah, I know that they can’t fool me. Well, if you took the cocktail, and you’re and you’re in a state of fear that you take the soap seriously, then you’ve been snookered, and people don’t know that. So, you know, we could go on and on. But those are, those are important aspects of the stops. But don’t do this. That allows the body to make more energy To respond to the stress and the environment, or the, the, whatever the external threat is, an argument with your spouse, an argument with your boss, car accident, fell down a flight of stairs, I’ve got a lousy diet, and so on.

And the internal stress, oh, I can’t make energy as soon as the body and then the system, and then the organ, and then the tissue, and then the cell when they can’t, when they realize we can’t make energy. There’s a hierarchy of responses. And I think that’s what I appreciate you all is that you understand the micro battlefield versus the macro battlefield. And there are different chemicals involved, depending upon what the level of abstraction is from the site of the problem. So just something for people to be brief like.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, it’s great. It’s so a lot was said there, Morley. And so ultimately, the title of this podcast is been changed over the years from your adrenal fix to the truth about your health. And I think the truth about your health can no better be encapsulated by what we’re talking about today. Ultimately, your protocols are the root cause protocol, the title of this series is the main cause of having no energy, all the same thing in terms of your cells aren’t making energy effectively.

And for the mineral metabolism that’s not being taught and the oxidative metabolism that’s not being taught and basically how to make energy, how that’s not all being taught. And ultimately, we have the ability, the great news, and how complex and sinister things are. There’s a lot of easy solutions, as well as you can attest to and what you’ve seen with what you’re doing on an on a coaching level and an on an organizational level, and hopefully a world level as well, that there’s a lot of things you could be doing.

And with the stops specifically are stopped doing things that are draining your batteries or that are depleting the imbalances that aren’t allowing yourself to breathe effectively. And some of them are sacred. Most of them are sacred cows and they’ve been engineered purposefully to be those things for very

reasons we can get into on another conversation but iron, vitamin D, multivitamins, zinc, vitamin C ascorbic, especially high corn for fructose, high fructose corn syrup, having high carbs, low fats, molybdenum citrates, these things are things that will low fluoride will lower your ability to breathe at the cellular level more effectively. One of the things that kind of what I like about this is that I do get into the weeds when I work one on one with my clients.

And I feel like where I was focused on is a part of the solution of what you do with the root cause protocol. It was just deeper in the weeds, and I wasn’t using the right reference point. So I’ll give you an example. This is how I got to where I got to okay, I’m burnt out exhausted. I heard about this thing called adrenal fatigue for myself, only to find out that it’s not real and doctors don’t believe in it and they marginalize you, and they make you feel wrong. And just because you’re coming with the wrong term, but it doesn’t deny the fact that you’re exhausted, you’re tired, you’re burnt out.

And I then looked at the fact that it’s an HPA Axis dysfunction, and it’s the perfect storm of having the environmental triggers that make some people with genetic susceptibilities, more likely to have a breakdown of their energy production systems in certain expressions. So some people might be autoimmune neurological issues, joint issues, GI issues, depending on where those genetic susceptibilities are whole other story, combined with the perfect storm of environmental triggers, create those 30,000 view foot symptoms, knowing that it goes deeper than the adrenals it goes into the HPA axis.

So what I came up with is understanding the HPA axis the H part of the hypothalamus gets stimulated by the nervous system peripherally and centrally. And it’s quite amazing the whole new field of neuro Immuno and the chronology and all of these inputs that go and stimulate the HPA axis, but ultimately do it via mast cells. And then mast cells stimulate the HPA axis, and then also that releases histamine which causes a cortisol release So forth and so on.

And then I got into the point of well, anything that stimulates the mast cells is going to stimulate a really important enzyme called NADPH oxidase. And that NADPH oxidase will produce superoxide, hydrogen peroxides. As a consequence of that, all of that if you’re listening to it, and you have no idea what I just said, that you don’t have to worry, because, at the end of the day, the point of reference is wrong.

The point of reference is, you don’t have enough bioavailable copper, and your cells aren’t breathing effectively. All the things I said, just a couple of moments ago are still true. But it’s a lot easier now for me to explain how to help people without having to get into the weeds like that. Because the point of reference is different, you just need to focus on preserving your Surulere plasm, and your bioavailable copper and not depleting your magnesium and making sure that your iron is moving and your cells are breathing, so that all those funky things I just said aren’t happening. Right. So that’s kind of the genesis of where we are. And I think that’s good to segue for our next conversation into the starts.

Because there’s a lot of things that we could be doing from a point of view that can assist all of this, and then the nuances of what you said with the relationship of stress and hypoxic things, the relationship of energy and frequencies and wavelengths. How important that is. Anything else though, you want to add to what I mentioned there, Morley.


Morley Robbins: I just Just real quick, I think you brought up a very important nuance that needs to be underscored. And we’ve been, again, we’ve been trained, we’ve been programmed to think that there’s Booyaka disease out there. And it’s really scary. And we’re doing our best our level best to take care of you. But there are just forces out there that are just so great. Weak, we don’t know, we don’t understand this or that, when in fact, if we’re not making energy, the body falls apart. It’s perfectly designed to fall apart. And, again, 100 milligrams of copper goes a long way.

And there’s a thing, I’ve resisted the idea of making a product for over a decade. And finally out of frustration, when I really when I began to realize all of this research was hinging on this little pivotal mineral, I finally said, Okay, maybe we need to make a product. And so we’ve got recuperate, you know, it’s out there, and it’s a play on words, recoup, gets it to recuperate. And so people need to realize that, that it defies logic. It’s like, Wait if it’s this simple.

Why do we have these hundreds of 1000s of doctors, whether they are in your Vedic medicine, or homeopathic, or allopathic, or chiropractic or you name it? Why are they chasing all these symptoms, when in fact, if we could just get the cells to make energy, all the symptoms would go away? And it’s, it’s a fair question to ask. We’ve, we’ve, we’ve so overblown, the problem, this, this, this stress-induced inability to make energy has become systemic. And it’s, and it’s creating all sorts of problems. And now it’s creating genetic problems that there are there’s no gene-disease. Again, it’s, oh, they’re light ones. Oh, yeah. It’s epigenetics. So methylation is not working, right. And, and so the methylation, the epigenetics is running the genetics, know, what’s running. What’s running, epigenetics is energetics.

As soon as, as soon as the methylation pattern begins to get clogged with oxidative stress, it starts to create a different response. It’s like, it’s so basic. And again, understand that oxygen is at the center. It is at the center of this whole dynamic and getting people to appreciate there’s only one element that works with oxygen. And he made a very important point about what we were talking about when we’re not making the energy.

We’re gonna make the exhaust the oxygen oxidative species, but there’s a whole cascade of antioxidant enzymes superoxide, dismutase, catalase, glutathione, peroxidase, para oxidase, and others that are all copper-dependent. Again, Mother Nature designed us to be able to deal with oxygen, to create energy requires copper, to neutralize exhaust or to clear exhausts requires copper, combat the enemies that require copper too. And it’s that elegant. And it’s that simple. But it’s not taught. It’s not the focal point of a doctor’s training. Why? Because it kills the business model of medicine. And there is a business model.

And people need to appreciate I think, I think more people understand that, as we’re looking at the financial reports of certain companies. Now, post psyops, we’re being to see some big money has just been made in the last 18 months. And so people need to internalize. What does that mean? And it’s, it is important too, as I think I put it pointed out in our first conversation, people need to be asking better questions.

And people need to be demanding that our answers and this wrote, If this, then that, that is kindergarten medicine. If your practitioner is not putting your situation into a context of energy deficiency, and they don’t understand what’s going on in your body, that’s the most important function, that is, if the energy paradigm is not what’s ruling, the conversation with your practitioner, you better go find a better practitioner. I think it’s that simple.


Dr. Joel Rosen: That does sum it up. And, you know, as well, if we are not eating processed food, and we’re eating, I say food that our grandmother or great grandmother would recognize, I still believe that we’ve, we’ve sowed so much from the soils that we don’t have as many minerals that you could maintain at a level that you need to effectively.

But that being said, in adulthood great nutrients that man didn’t make in a lab, but we made from the earth that is complete with these as much as possible minerals, and vitamins and fibers and all the things that we are a head start, of course, removing refined sugars and processed foods is super key, I’ll just say from a professional stamp, but I’ll still play at the third and sixth-degree levels just because I liked the idea of understanding where the weak links in the chain do break. And then also understanding where the other inflammatory contributors are for making those oxidant radicals.

Especially for a lot of people that I work with one, we see a lot of commonalities where keep one is an enzyme that when it releases, signals the antioxidant response elements. A lot of people have major weaknesses in the or it’s an upregulation. So just typically what happens, I explained to Morley that genetics is kind of like and I have to be careful who I talk to because my younger clients don’t understand this, you remember those credit card processing machines where you would put the card in the machine, and you would scan it over and transparency would come out. When we have polymorphism or I don’t like the word mutation, but a, you know, an alteration in the language, the card goes in sideways, you make the switch, and transparency comes out at fewer amounts than the times that you’re doing them.

That of course is an under regulation or down-regulation or not producing as much but there are up to regulations as well keep one is an up-regulation. And what we found is that my analogy in the explaining it is the pin in the grenade that you take out to detonate the grenade is stuck harder, it’s upregulated in there, so you can’t release it. And what that when you release that pin nerf to then it’s like the sprinkler system. And another analogy is your waterways where it senses the fire and it releases the elements. It doesn’t stop there, though it nerve to also helps to upregulate not just the signaling, the production of the utilization of the recycling of and if that pen isn’t coming out, I tell people like you’re oxidizing iron and you’re sitting at the side of the fire with the police or the 911 not calling you.

Even when you get there, you’re not turning on the hose. And that creates major, major, major challenges. And then what we find also is when that depletes a lot of the NADPH it doesn’t allow us to recycle those response elements as well. So there’s a lot of interesting, you know, ways where when you do play at that genetic level, you can see, hey, we have some challenges here, which would make copper unavailability that much more challenging for you. Or we see that also these other variables like calcium channels with EMFs are going to leak into the system more. And there is such a thing that you’re not a weirdo and you need a tinfoil hat, but you are more sensitive to EMF, so it helps me at that level.

But yet, it makes it so much easier. Hey, Mrs. Jones, because I used to, I would go through the report, the important thing for you to know is, which I’ve always said, you are not making energy at the level you need to, and the book here kind of made it that much more hireable for me, to give it that much more digestible marching orders for them. And I thank you so much for not just my practice and ability to help people at a higher level, but be able to have a tool for people to go to, to be able to understand what we talked about today. So we’ll keep it open for part two, part three, if you’re willing and able, I’d love to do that. And I guess for the people that want a list of the stops and starts because you’re so gracious and you have that available, where can they go and get that?


Morley Robbins: Yeah, the website or CP 123 dot o RG RCP for root cause protocol, RCP 123 dot orgy, you donate your email, and we will send you the 50-page manual. It’s a handbook on the root cause protocol. And within that is a series of charts. There are stops and starts and a recommended daily regimen just to give people some basic information. And then, of course, people can also go and I’m mightily impressed with that copy of cure your fatigue. You’re going through that, aren’t you?


Dr. Joel Rosen: Oh, my dog has didn’t even eat it. So me


Morley Robbins: Oh, my coffee isn’t even that borrowed yet. But I appreciate your spending the time with it. But people can get that book from Amazon or books or Barnes or whatever your favorite one line? purveyor is, you’re not going to find it in bookstores physically, it’s just not Yeah, give it a couple of years. And I think we’ll have it in a few more dozen conversations with Joel, we’ll get it there. But then there’s also going to be an audio version in the spring going to be working on that.

We’re excited about that. Because a lot of people like to listen, they don’t always have time to read. And then I think people are going to find that there’s a lot of information. They can join the there’s RSVP community. And then for the real, the real diehards can always take the RCP Institute training, that’s a 16-week program that is developed over the last four years where we’re starting group 15, in February of this year, and I think people will find that their questions will get answered in that training.

And it’s touching it’s beginning to blossom. Typically, we’d have like 30 to 50 people. Last class 14 was 99 people. And we’re preparing ourselves for about 150 to 175 in group 15. And that’s really where we need to be I I’ve committed myself to train 10,000 practitioners, we’re at about 500.

So I’ve got a little have a little bit of a Delta to squeeze down. But I think we’re going to get there. Because I’m not going to kick the bucket anytime soon, at least not that I’m aware of. And I’ve never had so much fun, but I’ve never worked so hard in my life. But I think there’s always new information that’s going to come forward. But what I appreciate about these conversations is the dot-connecting, I think you have a gift for helping people go, Oh, wait a minute.

So that connects to this connects to this. Oh, now it’s this is where the real magic is, and this back and forth is to begin to take these concepts that are in the book and then apply it into your clinical practice where people can say, Oh, now I see what the connections are if that’s a very important download of information for the masses. So I appreciate that.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, no, I appreciate everything that you do. And I always say like success leaves clues and even if people don’t want to donate their email that you even have the stops and starts on the website anyways.

I guess you just have So I look forward to part three and wish you and your loved ones a happy healthy holiday season a new year and then I looked forward to reconvening and going down maybe even a little further down that hole. So until then, Morley we’ll talk to you soon.


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