How to Get to The Main Cause of having no Energy Part 1 with Morley Robbins


Dr. Joel Rosen: Alright, hello, everyone. And welcome back to another edition of the truth about your health where our mission is to empower 100 million exhausted and burnt out men and women by teaching them the truth about their health so that they can go from exhausted to energized. And no more is the truth about health, exemplified in the works of our next guest, who it is a pleasure and honor for him to be here today and give us information about how to get your energy back.

His name, of course, I’m sure you all have heard of him is Morley Robbins. He is the creator of the root cause protocol in the magnesium advocacy group. He received his BA in Biology from Denison University in Ohio and holds an MBA from George Washington University in health care administration. And he’s been training, wellness coaches, nutritional counseling, and Functional Diagnostic Nutrition, but most importantly, has a really what I feel is a groundbreaking sacred cow tipping book on how to go about curing your fatigue. So without further ado, Morley, thank you so much for being here today.


Morley Robbins: Joe, it’s a pleasure to be here. Thank you for that very kind introduction. And I’m sure this is gonna be a conversation that will be long remembered. I think it’s just our phone conversations have been scintillating. And I’m sure this will be no less than what we’ve had in the past.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Well, I appreciate you being here. And it’s always great to fill in the gray share areas when I’m on my path of understanding the information and like yourself wanting to make a difference in people’s lives. And I know your mission is to refine, re redirect, and redesign health. So people that are suffering can ultimately get answers.

And by having conversations like these, and telling the truth and exposing it and having the courage and I would say to you, thank you so much for your work, because a lot of people don’t have the instincts or the wherewithal or even, I guess the gusto to want to, to prove that. And interestingly enough, just to kind of go into your background for people that that don’t know your story, you are in health administration for many years, which seems kind of antithesis to what you do now.

So maybe explain to the viewer before we get into how much you’ve researched and where you have arrived at and the genesis of your book and outlining the actual content of the book, which is our goal in this three-part series to go through each chapter and help the listener who’s exhausted and burnt out, get energy back, start with your story as How does someone who might be interpreted as being on the other team? Or on the other side of the fence? How do they get into this site? What was the journey? Or what were some of the pivotal moments morally in your health care? Journey?


Morley Robbins: Great question. I’ll give people a quick thumbnail sketch I grew up in a very sickly family. My mom was an alcoholic. My dad was a manic depressive with schizophrenia. And, and that’s a tough household to come into a lot of illness. And my sister just recently passed, by the way, thank you for an evening of thanksgiving. God bless her, and she’s in a better place. But she had her health struggles for many decades. And by the grace of God knock on wood. I seem to have circumvented a lot of that. But my sister was a nurse. So I was supposed to be the doctor. Right? You know, and then I get, to college.

It’s like, Whoa, this is this is hard. There’s a lot of work involved. And I didn’t do well in college that gives it away for the real fine. detail. I kind of BA in biology. That means I wasn’t I didn’t have the academic horsepower to get a BS. That’s an important clue for people. I’m sure if people saw my college transcript, they’d say, How does this guy know how to spell iron? Much let’s talk about it. But in any event, there is a plan. And if you don’t get into medical school, which I did, obviously, and has been adverts physician down in Lubbock, Texas is worthy. It’s a blessing you didn’t get indoctrinated.

because it allowed me to be a free thinker, approach it a little bit differently, but I decided to go into business and become a hospital executive. And then consultant, as you said, I was working on the other side for many years. But I knew something wasn’t right. What I was good at, I was good at forecasting, you give me some data, and may and I could tell you where it’s going. And through a series of projects, I began to forecast the incidence of chronic disease, this was back in the late 80s. And then again, and it was probably 2000. It’s just Joe, it was frightening what was happening to the incidence of disease.

So I decided I couldn’t, couldn’t stay on the sidelines anymore, and decided I was going to be a wellness coach, whatever that meant. And I’d spent 20 years as a consultant, pulling a suitcase behind my back, going through airports, going from coast to coast, solving problems, helping hospitals get bigger and better and better. And finally, my body said, we’re done. And I couldn’t lift my hand above my waist was my shoulder was frozen. As a chiropractor, you understand that dynamic. And I was encouraged to go see Dr. Liz. And I said I don’t do witchcraft.

And they sold me some supplements. I came back a couple of months later, I was miserable, couldn’t sleep as in a lot of pain. And finally, the owner said, Look, we love you. Go see Dr. Lewis. Well, Dr. Lewis is now my wife. And it was a transformational experience. Because in two sessions, I had complete rotation. And I was like, what just happened?

And to lose, use the phrase that I’d never heard in 32 years of working in the hospital field, the innate healer. I thought to myself, I didn’t say anything to her, I thought to myself, if there’s an innate healer, why do we have hundreds of 1000s of doctors around the world, that that didn’t make sense to me. So I quietly set out to discover who is the innate healer. And that’s really what the book is about, Curing your fatigue, is letting people know that there is an internal process that we all are endowed with if we have the right diet if we’re supplementing the right nutrients.

And if we’re not doing what quote, they are telling us to do, it’s a lot easier. And it’s been a magical transformation I never would have imagined 15 years ago. So let’s say, Morley, you know, when you’re in your late 60s, you’re going to publish a book on how to cure all diseases, but how to overcome all energy deficiency? And, and really, what what, what’s really behind it the nucleolus, I think you what you’re good at Joel is asking the critical questions to get at the essence of it.

But the essence of what’s behind the root cause protocol, is I want to democratize healing. I want everyone to have access to what Mother Nature intended that we would have all along. And that’s to bring ourselves back into balance. And when we’re able to produce energy optimally, and you understand what that’s all about. And that’s, you’ve got to have good adrenals you got to have good thyroid function. But what you got to have, you got to have good minerals, to drive the metabolic process to make that energy.

And it’s been a, it’s been a magical experience, to build a Facebook following and now publish a book and then have a chance to talk with folks like yourself in you know, this is a pinch me is this real moment, I’ve never had so much fun. In my life, I’ve never worked so hard, you know, every day begins with two to three hours of research, you know, starting at five o’clock and trying to hit the ground running. But it’s been a phenomenal experience.

And I’ve been able to connect a lot of dots that it’s out there. And again, that goes back to my core strength which is I’m good at connecting dots. And that’s really what’s allowed me to have this I guess, awareness of what happened and what we need to do to solve it.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, no thanks for sharing your background, there’s a lot of commonalities that I can relate to Morley, my mother was an alcoholic. And my family was traditionally trained medical doctors and I’m not a real doctor. And as well as the fact that I would add on to when we first talked on the phone to set this conversation up.

We talked about having a good batting average, and meaning when you do get to the foundational as everyone is looking to do with the root cause Hey, I realize I’m not getting I want to get to the root cause I want to get to upstream mechanics of not just putting a pill for the ill. And ultimately when you do that, you get to have a higher batting average.

And you help more people, which I would imagine from, from what you’ve told me and what I know about you so far, that that’s probably more than anything more rewarding than anything else to see the improvements of people and who get it who’ve been frustrated and who have not been taken seriously who’ve been marginalized, who’ve been even condescended and scoffed or laughed at.

And they’re the difficult people when in reality, just like people, scientists that are forward-thinking and are way ahead of their time. They’re always criticized and condemned until eventually, they’re being ahead of the curve catches up with everyone else. And so anyway, I want to thank you for that. And so with that being said, getting into your research, and I’ll just kind of give the listener how I got into and came across your book was my health journey and understanding that I suffered from stress-related over overstimulated can’t focus can concentrate anxiety crashing in the middle of the day circadian rhythm imbalance. And I had finished my undergraduate with exercise physiology.

I finished an undergraduate in psychology. I finished the doctorate program in chiropractic. And here I was Morley probably over $250,000 in debt. My wife was pregnant with twins, she had to go on bed rest. We almost lost them. And I was tired. I was just graduated, I opened up a new business in another country, I had a debt. And here I was raised, waiting for twins to be born.

And I didn’t realize that there is this term called adrenal fatigue. And I thought, oh, my gosh, if there’s this thing called adrenal fatigue, which has my picture as the picture boy of what it is of what it described, only then to realize that it’s not accepted. It’s not a legitimate diagnosis and going down the own the same rabbit holes that potentially you did when you heard the word healer, I kept refining and refining and refining to understand that it goes so much deeper than the adrenals the HPA axis as it works as a system.

And ultimately, I tell people, as you well, no cells become tissues become organs become systems. And if your system is not making enough energy, because that’s really what it’s about, as we talked about earlier, you fit but by definition, fatigue means you don’t have enough energy, then something must be happening, not just at the system level where medicine is very reductionistic and symptom, treating and pharmaceutically approached, but at the cellular level, where we’re just not making energy effectively.

So why don’t we start with if that’s what you arrived that 12 years ago, and started going through the research and you’ve written this book, in terms of cure with the see you with a square around it? Why don’t we kind of start from that and, and at the cellular level, what’s happening for us to not have energy effectively?


Morley Robbins: No, I think it’s a great place to start. Again, everything on the planet hinges on energy, right? You know, I spent several years in business well, there’s a famous saying, in business, nothing happens until a sell a sale is made. Nothing, you gotta get to sell something to have a business right? Because you gotta sell something to have revenue.

Well, nothing happens in the cell until energy is made. It’s the same concept. And you know, I did the training with Jerry Tennant who’s a classically trained MD down in Dallas Texas ophthalmologist he’s he’s the guy that perfect laser surgery


in the system and he hasn’t heard reinvent his metabolism, he had to pay to do research and get back to the basics. And he said, If I can get one cell to work, I can get them all.

And that inspired me. And so I got into really studying Where Where does the energy come from. But

they’re called Purple bacteria. They go way back in time, back to the beginning of oxygen on the planet. And that’s a whole nother discussion. You take red and blue, you get purple. And so it turns chemical transfer. There’s what’s called the inside the mitochondria are three basic steps. You’ve got glycolysis. Yeah, what’s called the electron transport chain.

We’ve got four complexes, but they’re called respiratory complexes. This is where breathing takes place. So the respiration with oxygens takes place. Most important is a complex form, which we’ll talk about, and when it’s attached to, etc, the electron transport chain, that then becomes what’s called oxidative phosphorylation. That’s right, what’s he talking about? But all we’re doing is we are making sure that we’re making ATP.

And various mitochondria go through to allow that to happen. And the mitochondria have a little pool in the center. It’s called the matrix pool, while the leading scientists referred to as the copper matrix pool, Paul carbine, and Auburn University, the guy who figured out in 2004, there are 50,000 Atoms of copper in that pool inside the mitochondria, it’s like, wow.

And then you begin to understand these electrical transactions that are taking place with our copper department. And then we come to complex for or that’s the one where oxygen, it’s being held by a heme protein assay called a catcher’s mitt, to load it up with electron spotter, what’s like, wow, that’s sections on planet Earth, because what most people don’t realize we agree, but we can’t live without it. We can’t age without an either.

And so the oxygen, it’s the second most reactive element on the planet, after fluorine gas, or fluoride, we know it as but after Fleury oxygens, second most reactive element, and it needs to be managed very carefully. And there’s only one element on planet earth that does that. It’s called copper, copper takes that oxygen turns it into water. Copper takes what is called reactive oxygen species, which are given off in the process of making energy.

it neutralizes them. It makes them okay to be with copper also, this is most important people, for people to realize that in the sea of insanity that we find ourselves in post COVID Not a lot of people are talking about the immune system. Well, I’ve got 52 articles that demonstrate and prove that copper runs our immune system because the immune system is based on intelligence. Gotta recognize what’s out there, gotta mobilize the response. And intelligence, as you well know, is based on energy.

Prefer low energy, we’re just we just can’t think right? Well, our immune system is energy-dependent. It’s copper-dependent. And I’ve got articles from 2008 that prove that copper kills SARS, COV. Two, so it’s just I get all of that has been pushed aside. And the thing is, copper combat enemies, that’s amazing. It creates energy, clears exhausts combat enemies. That’s a nice, that’s a that’s an incredible array of functions.

For one element that most people think is toxic. Most people, the meme that’s running the planet, the medical side of things, is you’re anemic. And you’re copper toxic. And, and that’s not true at all. That is the exact opposite. Because we are all copper deserts. Because we follow the Western diet. Most of us didn’t know that they had suppressed copper in the sun. Oil suppressed its presence in plants and animals.

Well, our tissue doesn’t have it. And then we take medications that attack copper. And we can have that discussion at some point. But the thing is, we are copper deserts. Well, critical research from 1928 at the University of Wisconsin, heart, steenbok, Waddell, and LVM. Prove that if you deny copper to an animal, iron will accumulate in its liver. Well, that’s a big deal. I mean, a liver, it’s, it’s like command central, inside our metabolism. And 500 Enzymes depend on proper liver function, where you start loading and full of iron doesn’t work the same way. And what does iron do?

It suppresses copper to function. And that’s the work of Jamie Collins and his team down at the University of Florida in Gainesville. Some amazing research has been done about this dynamic between copper and iron, that people just need to blow up this idea that they’re anemic. Because there are two positions that I take pretty strong positions.

One, there is no disease, there is no medical disease, it doesn’t exist. But there is stress-induced mineral dysregulation that causes metabolic dysfunction. And so adrenal fatigue or, you know, hypothyroidism, or whatever terminology we want to use, those are just two catchphrases to describe a set of symptoms, that are all expressions of energy deficiency, because minerals are missing and energy can’t be made.

So there is no disease. And I’m pretty strident about that. But the second is, there is no iron deficiency anemia when this planet again, people think Wait, oh, that’s the World Health Organization tells me that’s the number one nutrient deficiency on the planet. It’s like, well, at this point, you should know better than the breather. Who, but the thing is

the number one element, the number one element on planet Earth, 36% of the Earth’s composition is iron. It’s something iron is the Master Pro oxidant on this planet, and what happens with iron interacting with oxygen? We call it rust. We know what rust is, we know a rusty nail rusty pipe rusty car. Well, that rusting process takes place inside our bodies when we’re not managing oxygen and iron. And guess who does that there’s only one element, we’re back to copper again.

And that’s the part that that basic, foundational understanding of what mitochondria do has been lost to the ages. It’s not taught in Doctor school I, I would gladly give you $100 Every time you heard the word copper in chiropractic school, I bet I would be shocked if you even heard its words, I could lose a lot of money if I if you went to the right school, though.

But no, it’s just I think it’s it’s a term and then gets into the Coppa enzymes. And these are, this is a whole parallel universe that I never knew existed. You know, even when I was a biology student, I don’t ever remember studying minerals, that wasn’t part of the formal education. And, and it is doctors about their degree, their MD degree, that it stands for mineral denialist. And they don’t know what minerals are. And I think the other glaring challenge that we have is, and I’m sure you bump up against this all the time in your work.

And your practice is that the world has been trained to think in hormones. But hormones don’t run the body. They don’t. It’s amazing. Every hormone that exists is made from an enzyme. And 100% of the enzymes inside our body require a mineral catalyst to make it work. These hormones don’t say, Well, I want to make some more of myself. It’s just it’s incredible. Where where are these critical reactions taking place? Inside mitochondria?

Suck. It’s like, oh my gosh, and we’re back to critical minerals like magnesium and copper, and who’s the bad guy iron, and nothing will kill the adrenals faster than too much iron in the diet. And you know that as well as I do. So I think people have been misdirected. And so we’ve been taught to focus on hormones. And we’ve been taught to focus on the nucleolus Well, that’s where all the defects are.

And there’s this big body of knowledge about how we create energy and what the meticulous steps are, that has been kind of pushed aside so that people don’t aren’t aware of the real engine that drives our energetic process. It’s been a phenomenal process of discovery for the last 11 years.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, I mean, there’s so much that you said there in so many different ways that we could go Morley with that. And one of the very first things that I think of is in what you do, I think it’s either in your introduction, or somewhere near the beginning of the book, where if a doctor has a patient that comes in, and they can’t help them or haven’t been able to help them, and they try something on their own, and they come back and tell you, Hey, I’ve had a lot of success with this, there’s kind of a two-part response that could happen is the well, you know, continue doing that.

And I don’t want to know anything about it. Or I want to know about it, because I took an oath, to help people. And so I have that mentality of if I don’t know something, I’m not insecure, and say, Well, I don’t want to know about it, or I don’t have the holier than thou, it’s wrong. And I’m right. Besides which the evidence and the research are so substantiated, that you can argue it. And these are universal laws.

And it comes down to what we’ve learned in terms of energy production. And it begs you to look in the mirror as a provider, and say, Hey, like, maybe I don’t know, everything that I could know, maybe even, in fact, I’ve been making recommendations that have in the elbow, I wanted to help this person wasn’t the best recommendation at the time. And so you learn and you understand. And so that’s, that’s kind of how I got on to, again, copper.

And I noticed with a lot of the clients that I work, and as you said, I do a lot of six, six sort of standard deviations in terms of, hey, let’s look at all of these different aspects and ultimately led me tell you, why do most people that I have challenges with have an iron challenge genetically, and a copper challenge genetically, and they’re exhausted, there’s got to be something there.

And there is something there. And it makes sense to the concept of what you say. And ultimately having iron not get out of tissues is a sacred cow that you’re addressing in terms of just because you’re iron dis dysregulated. Or if you have low iron in your blood doesn’t mean you have low iron in your body. And you could store up to 10 times more iron in your tissues than you can in your blood.

So anyway, as far as one of the things that I would kind of defer back to now is though, in the organization of your book, you use two words called misled and miss fed. And I guess the segue to that would be, why don’t we know about what you just told us? Why do we not look at energy production from a, from science, like we learned in high school?

Because that’s we even though like you said, Well, before we got on the call, the old way was educated with the one cell one mitochondria, it’s the power plant, and that’s evolved so much further. The question is, why or why are we not? Why don’t we know this? And what do the words misled and misread have to do with that?


Morley Robbins: Great, great direction? Um, there’s no money in a cure. It’s very simple, you know, there’s, there’s no money in dead people. There’s no money and healthy people. Right? So there’s a lot of money in people being less than healthy. So here’s a sharp example of what led to this idea of being misled in this fed. There’s a very famous physician named Paul Ehrlich. He, he worked he was fascinated by immunology as a med student in Germany.

He graduated in 1888. To give me a sense of his timeframe. He wins the Nobel Prize in 1908. It’s amazing to think what he was able to assemble him in 20 short years, but in 1892, four years after he graduates from medical school, he uses something called methylene blue. It’s an industrial dye, but he uses methylene blue To cure people of malaria. Now, this dye was developed and invented in 1876, at BASF industries in Germany. And when they call it when the that Ehrlich had done this, they said, Good on you, Dr. Ehrlich, we’re going to make it better. So again, he uses methylene, blue to cure malaria.

It’s gone. So BASF refines it, and turns methylene, blue, into hydroxychloroquine. And now, if you get malaria, in the modern age, you’re treated, not cured, you’re treated with hydroxychloroquine for the rest of your life. That’s what that’s the difference between 1892 and 2021. We live in a very different world. And we have been misled about where the focus of the of opportunity is, let’s call it what it is. If the goal is to, is to get well, if the goal is to stay in balance the store if the goal is to generate energy. You got to be careful what your sources are.

Because there’s a lot of misinformation on the internet. And it’s not that people are necessarily malevolent, it’s just they don’t know they’re parroting back what they learn. But when you go into the source documents, again, a very important conversation I had several years ago was, you know, don’t focus on what’s a new focus on what’s enduring. That’s really what got me back to the research of 1910 1820 1930. And it’s a different world than the modern era. So so we have been misled about contemporary research as basically paid advertising. I mean, it’s just people don’t realize the moneyed interest behind the research. I think they have a better understanding of it today.


But the Miss Fed is, I mean, there have just been massive changes in the world of agriculture. In the world of food processing, I mean, something as simple as NPK, nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium people, farmers have been using that for over 100 years. Well, guess what it does? It, it blocks the uptake of copper by the plant? Well, then, you know, we go into the modern era with glyphosate, Roundup. No, there’s no, there’s no more perfect copper key later on the planet, then Roundup, it, it’ll key like copper, l to a pH of one.

And who taught me that Stephanie Senath, at a breakfast meeting, back in Chicago, about three years ago, it was an interesting conversation, to get her insights about this ubiquitous farming chemical that’s used everywhere all over the planet. And people don’t realize what the cost is. So are we are being misfed, both in terms of what we’re being told is the problem. But this fed in terms of the quality of the nutrition that we’re exposed to is, it’s a, it’s a far cry from what our ancestors knew. And it’s, you know, at the end of the day, we should be eating food, that’s real. And it’s not real anymore.

And you know that as well as I do. And it’s a challenge for people to kind of come to terms with that, oh, my gosh, I mean, my favorite, whatever meal is, is not helping me. And it’s just getting people to wake up to the cold hard reality that we’ve got to put a lot of effort into making sure we’re, we know where our food is coming from, do we know the source, and we spoke to the source, you have to know the farmers that are providing your food.

It’s not an easy task to do that, but go to farmers’ markets, or find a way to go to Whole Foods, identify what the farm is producing, at particular food calm and find out what they’re doing to feed the soil. What are they doing to feed the animals and get a sense of what’s going on? And is that more work? You better believe it is. But you’re going to have a lot more control over what’s going inside your body so that you have a sense of certainty about what you’re doing to ensure your good health.

So misled, Miss fed just, I don’t know, it came to me before a presentation is served me well over the years because it helps people crystallize where the problems started, and how they keep enduring on a day by day basis.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, again, there’s a lot that you said there and the first thing that comes to my mind is later in the book, which we’ll probably talk about in the next time we talk but just to reference it in terms of Weston A price and how his goal or he went across the world and looked at indigenous countries or indigenous people, and found that they had immaculate arches and teeth development.

And this was because they had amazing soils and amazing foods that were replete with nutrients and minerals and also had healthy fats and lots of copper obviously, and animals and all of the things in between. I went on to research a little bit after that, and they’re up until I think the 40s or 50s, in the curriculum, of the dental school, was, was nutrition.

And, and then up until a certain point, it kind of comes to a crossroads of those preventative suggestions keep us in business. Right and now you sort of are greeted with a smile and a lollipop after, as a child with a dentist, right? Because after all, they’re their bad guys. And they got to, you know, give you a needle or pull a tooth. So here’s a lollipop Wink, wink. But at the same time, that’s what keeps them in business and why, you know, unfortunately, do we have to get rid of a curriculum that would prevent the problem? And I think that’s a microcosm of what you just said, right, in terms of being misled and miss fed.


Morley Robbins: And yeah. People know Hal Huggins is a famous dentist that people may have heard of the love work with mercury and things like that. Well, he inherited Dr. Price’s research on root canals. And I was actually at a conference where he was there, he was present, I got a chance to shake his hand and thank him for his work.

But people don’t realize that the level of, I guess dysregulation that can start with a dental visit. And in fact, I think Dr. Huggins wrote his book, it’s all in your head because he’s what he figured out was, but 80% of the physical problems that people have, start with a visit to their dentist, and they don’t realize that they’re not, they’re not thinking about that, you know, the tooth that needs to be pulled or filled or whatever, it can lead to all sorts of mineral loss, and mineral dysregulation, and then energy loss.

And it says, of course, back to Jerry Tennant. Every one of these teeth of ours is connected to some Oregon system, thanks to traditional Chinese medicine. And so there’s a very tight connection between our Oregon Health and our teeth healthy and they’re communicating with each other. It’s amazing, as you will know. And it’s just getting people to realize that there’s more to the story.

It isn’t this, this programmed response, you know if this than that, well, that’s just a narrative. And there’s so much more to the story. And it’s far more simple than people realize. But it’s also enormous in its significance. So it’s just getting people to recognize that.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, and just finalized that dental profession. A lot of another mentor that I did a lot of research, and followed his work was a doctor named Dr. Robert Marshall. And he talked about the that there’s probably no greater profession that created more harm to our health in the dental profession. Because number one, the fluoride number most reactive, you know, element on the planet, but then mercury on top of that, and then, but anyway, that’s just a side note.

So as far as the next topic, I guess, we would talk about is the fact that, okay, well, I can accept that idea that the body makes energy. And that’s ultimately what I teach people as well. Morley is is like, fundamentally think of it very easily. As you said, when you think about it easily, you have a demand and supply problem, and you’re not producing energy at the demand that your level your body needs. And as a result, it’s going to make decisions based on the available income that it has.

And I and which we’ll get into later to which I want just to make sure you’re aware of this question coming up is nothing happens until you have a sale. And until you have a sale, then you’re in business. However, with that being said, as we get into the actual root cause protocols, the majority of your emphasis is on decreasing overhead, right, and not increasing income. Let’s Right. So that’s your, your main emphasis too.

So that there’s a lot to be said with that in terms of, you want to make sure you get enough income coming in to meet some demand. But you also want to make sure I tell people, hey, as your business consultant to your body, it’s much easier to lower your overhead and reduce the expenses of the things that you’re using up valuable energy for that you automatically are ahead, a penny earned as a penny, A penny saved, or penny saved is a penny earned.

So I think that’s important, for sure. But here’s the thing, let’s kind of talk about the free radical, free radical aging theory with oxidation. And quite simply how, because there’s a couple of things I want to ask you as an adjunct to that question. But let’s just start with that theory, in terms of the free radical theory of aging, your either is quite simply, like you said, combining hydrogen and oxygen to produce water or ATP, or you’re not, it’s that simple. You’re either producing energy effectively, while at the same time reducing exhaust and inflammation, or you’re not, or you’re producing inflammation and exhaust and not the amount of energy. And I tell people, the analogy is like, imagine you working with me for a week.

And at the end of the week, instead of me giving you a paycheck, you have the luxury of paying to work for me, and it’s adult, that’s a double negative, right, on the one hand, you should be earning an income. On the other hand, you’re paying an expense. And in this case, because you’re not creating energy, you’re creating inflammation, it’s causing costing you money for that process while you’re not making the energy. So anyway, why don’t we get into the free radical theory of aging and explain what that has to do with the root cause? Protocol?


Morley Robbins: Absolutely. I think it’s a love the overhead analogy, I love that it’s great, thank you for sharing them. People need to understand that that the mitochondria, it’s a, it’s a two-stroke engine. That complex for that. So important. Its formal name is called cytochrome. c oxidase. And that’s where oxygen gets turned into water. Very, very important transaction as we’re, as we’re recognizing. But when you get into that complex, it is a two-stroke engine, there’s there are many different steps in it. But a downstroke is to create hydrogen peroxide. So it turns oxygen into hydrogen peroxide, then the upstroke is to turn that hydrogen peroxide, h2o two into two molecules of h2o. And that requires energy to do that.

And if there isn’t copper, to do that heavy lifting, it doesn’t happen. What is hydrogen peroxide, it’s another way of saying inflammation. Inflammation is just a dysregulated mitochondria that are making H two O two, and it’s not making two molecules of h2o. So people need to know where that inflammation is coming from. And so the key is making sure that people realize that this mechanism is that basic that in terms of making sure that we’re following through there, we’re there, we’re producing the energy that we need to. And so the key is, is breathing that process for our entire body.

It’s like, it’s kind of fascinating to think about the magnitude of it. And the essence is making sure that that there is copper in our diet, and that we can make that conversion on a consistent and efficient basis in the body, throughout the body throughout the tissue, and in the cellular structures. So the focus though, unlimited, that’s come back to your specific question, you wanted to drill into the exactly what was the real target


Dr. Joel Rosen:
was more the free radical ah, there Yeah, right.


Morley Robbins Thank you. So the free radical theory of aging comes by way of a very famous physician. His name was denim. Harmon. Harmon was a, he was an industrial engineer. He was setting oxidative stress in the industrial setting. And he had a Ph.D. And he decided, I wonder if this if these concepts that are so prevalent in the industrial setting, I wonder if they apply to humans, he decides to become a doctor.

But he doesn’t just go to medical school. He goes to Stanford, it’s like oh, my God, and in 1956 he publishes this article on the free radicals. theory of aging. What was very controversial this idea, because what it introduced, this is a really important part for people to understand that up until that time, all disease was vulgar, vulgar bad, it was outside your body it was invading it was, you need to be under threat and undertake.

And what Adam Harman exposed was we’re producing the free radicals inside is in the process of making energy. And that’s destabilizing our homeostasis. Well, that was a very heretical thing to propose. And it was hotly debated as you can imagine. But in 1969, a very important breakthrough took place at Duke University. And Joe McCord and his faculty advisor, Erwin Fedorovich, who just recently passed away just last year actually, Dr. Fred Ovitz passed away.

Famous research physiologist, but discovered a very important enzyme called Superoxide dismutase, s OD, and there are three different forms of them. But the one that they found was called S od Roman one. It’s got two atoms of copper, one atom of zinc, zinc, and structural coppers catalytic, there’s a difference between catalytic and structure. And when they brought that research forward, suddenly there was confirmation of what Dr. Harmon had been talking about in 1956. Well, then, on the heels of that research, Dr. Harmon published an article in 1972, on the free radical theory, inside the mitochondria, which is, you know, he’s building momentum. And then what’s amazing is that it is 90 A year of living on the planet. In 2006.

He does an update of his free radical theory of aging. And that’s it. These are just phenomenal articles to read. But what it does is presents a powerful premise for what happens in the process of aging. And what happens to set the stage for symptoms. Because from cradle to grave, we’re accumulating certain minerals, and we’re losing other minerals. Well, what do we, what do we accumulate? Well, we’re accumulating calcium and iron as we age, what are we losing?

We’re losing magnesium and copper as we age. Whereas, where’s the crisscross? Around the age of 40? What’s an indicative sign that we’re, we’ve got mineral dysregulation, we have to go to the eye doctor to get our either get glasses or get them upgraded. You talk to people, when did you get those glasses? It’s usually around the age of 41 when it kicks in. And so the with the eyes go, therefore, there go the body.

But the thing is, especially, guys, we’re magnets for iron from cradle to grave, we have an enormous capacity to take on iron. Why do women outlive men? Two reasons why they’re smarter. And they have had a monthly blood loss for 40 years. And that, that dumping of iron is what allows them to not be exposed to so much oxidative stress. And what is oxidative stress, we’re back into the mitochondria, the iron and the oxygen are not being regulated properly. And what’s a very important premise for people to understand is that the mitochondria,

the mitochondria are the terminal destination for iron and oxygen. And if they’re not regulated and managed their properties, if the oxygen is not being turned into water, and if the iron is not being recycled into heme groups, or iron-sulfur clusters, inside our mitochondria, by copper directed enzymes, if that’s not happening, then we are going to build trust. And then we’ve got the start of metabolic dysfunction.

It’s a fancy phrase, or that’s a fancy phrase for energy deficiency, as you noted, and as the energy deficiency builds, it becomes more and more symptomatic. And so people need to realize that this idea of free radicals, and again, I just think the terminology is phenomenal, free radicals Hey, have as many as you want. They’re free, right?

No free with the world of science is filled with these quirky little phrases, free radicals. But what they should be saying is, these are incredibly toxic chemicals. They’re very reactive inside our body, and they’re meant to be regulated by enzymes that have copper batteries, but that’s the part that no one knows about. And so people may know about oxidative stress. What there are three stages to oxidative stress.

It’s a, it’s a continuum. It’s, it’s a spectrum disorder, if you will, oxidative stress starts as hypoxia builds into what’s called inflammation. And then its terminal destination, something called cytotoxicity. Well, so their toxicity is just a fancy way of saying cancer. And inflammation is just to find a funny way of saying hydrogen peroxide. Well, what’s the problem at the very beginning, again, we’ve been taught to believe that hypoxia means lack of oxygen.

No, now we’re not at Mount Everest. And the only time we’re at Mount Everest is when we’re inside our mother’s womb, the amount of oxygen there is very tiny. That’s a topic for another discussion. But hypoxia is a lack of bioavailable copper, to flip oxygen into the water. And if it can’t do that, you’re going to make what’s called superoxide. That’s an oxygen molecule with an attitude, it’s got an extra electron that gives it a real big punch. And then the superoxide is going to be turned into hydrogen peroxide. So again, those are, those are classic.

They’re also called oxygen. So you’ve got oxidative stress, oxidants, free radicals, they all are referring to the same chemicals. And they’re all supposed to be regulated inside the mitochondria, and ultimately inside the cell. So they don’t become too exhaustive, get it exhaustive. And so people need to recognize it.

When we’re eating the right time, when we’re taking the right nutrients, when we are stopping the wrong nutrients, which we’ll get into I’m sure in the subsequent conversation, that our body has a natural ability to regulate itself. And we’ve been trained. Again, back to misled this miss fed, we’ve been trained like circus bears to believe that our bodies are powerless and that we must go to the priest to get some synthetic chemical to bring our body back into balance. It’s like, no, that’s just not true. not true.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, and following that up is this if you equal or remove the disparity between demand and supply, and you’re producing enough energy to meet the demands, your body knows what to do with it. And so I guess elaborating on what we talked about earlier, Morley before we got started was the micro trip chip of the mitochondria.

And how I believe as you’ve mentioned, with that micro trip, how important it is to regulate the programs that are being run by the computer, and there’s no more sophisticated computer than our human body. And, and what I think should also be elucidated is the fact that we should have it when we have oxidants or accidents with oxygen radicals happening, we should have, it does help us.

Not all radicals are bad, per se, like if we have hydrogen peroxide, being able to be spilled off from cellular respiration, it communicates with your immune system to attack pathogens effectively. And that’s where we regulate homeostasis. But the problem is, is that copper is deficient, so it’s not there to regulate that microchip effectively.

And then you have that continuum just kind of become an avalanche that rolls downhill and gets bigger and bigger and bigger and doesn’t get turned off. ultimately creating a mixture of that hydrogen peroxide with iron, which creates the never good no purpose whatsoever, hydroxyl radical, which is getting a little bit into the weeds. But what is happening for it for Denham to call it aging, like why like those free radicals if they’re not contained.

And, you know, you and I have talked about Bob Miller and Bob Miller is a six you know, decimal point or a standard deviation guy, but one of the sayings I love by his is we’ve learned everything that we could learn as effectively in Goldilocks and the Three Bears with not too little, not too much, but just right. So so what is it about that I mean, you don’t want to take antioxidants to the cows come home so you don’t have any exhaust because that regulates your immune system provided copper is available to turn it off, turn it on, signal, coordinate, do everything that it needs to do with it.


But then at the same time, once that iron does get trapped in tissues because of lack of bioavailable copper, and that doesn’t get x Dick dealt with effectively in too much exhaust is happening. Now you have these nasty hydroxyl radicals. What happens for that to cause aging? What is going on there?


Morley Robbins: That’s great, great question. I mean, the aging, aging process, or aging itself. It’s just another way of saying iron accumulation is a lot of research about that. I mean, the work of Douglas Cowell or Gutteridge and Halliwell, or Robert krypton, and the Netherlands, I mean, some big, big names have been studying this. And there, they’re the ones who came up with this idea that we accumulate one milligram of iron. Every day we’re on the planet, folks get your calculator out, put in your age, multiply it times 365, you’re going to get a big number, it’s gonna be five digits.

And under ideal circumstances, women should have 4000 milligrams of iron, and the guy should have 5000 Men can hold more iron, we have more testosterone, which allows us to handle that iron. But we live in an iron-enriched world. Everything is fortified with iron and calcium, and vitamin D. And people are not stopping to think about, well, wait a minute, what happened to copper, and magnesium, and retinol? Why are we talking about those three, an hour, all we’re worried about is iron, and calcium, and vitamin D.

And it’s like, it’s out of balance, everything. I mean, the problem is, we are designed, we are designed for homeostasis, here’s a really powerful image for people to get in their mind. I’m sure many of your listeners have been on a boogie board, it’s got that ball in the center. And you’ve got to use energy in your legs to stay in balance, right.

And if you’re on the board, and you’ve got your energy going, everything’s fine, you stay in balance, the minute you release the energy, it’s going to go one way or the other. That’s when people are sick. That’s when they have, quote, disease. They’re either here or they’re there. But when they’re healthy, they’re in balance. They’re in homeostasis.

And that requires energy. And that’s why the energy deficiency is so endemic. It’s the signal that it’s the very first event to start the aging process and the so-called disease process. It all starts with energy deficiency. That’s the work of Douglas wall’s famous geneticist at Children’s Hospital of Pennsylvania. And just to build this image for people so they understand what’s going on. Let’s go back to our high school biology class, and open up the textbook to see the picture of the cell.

And when we look at the picture of the cell, there might have been one or two, maybe three, maybe three mitochondria. Well, that’s not how it works. You know, we have 40 quadrillions, that’s 15 zeros folks. We have 40 quadrillion mitochondria. In our body. The average cell has 500. That’s a lot of mitochondria per cell. Try to picture that. But the average liver cell 2000, mitochondria, kidney cell 4000, mitochondria, heart cell 10,000, the mature egg and a woman’s body. The number of mitochondria is 600,000. Now have we have neurons in our brain.

They’re as long as my arm. So picture this three, three feet, or three feet long. And they have 2 million mitochondria. We can’t We can’t even get our head around that. It’s like oh my gosh. And so we’ve got to appreciate that. The presence of mitochondria in our body is vastly different than what we were trained doubly. But then we get to the terminology itself. And if we take the classic work of say, Dr. Colin Bach, a famous German. He was a physiologist.

Studied the mitochondria. He would call it an energy factory. That’s we’re back to the high school biology textbook. Well, then let’s upgrade it. Brian Glancy at NIH. He’s a very up-and-coming scientist and he refers to the mitochondria as the power grid. That’s a different image, a good energy factory. We got a power grid. And, and the pictures in his articles are phenomenal. If you’re not familiar with his work, Ryan Clancy’s 2015 2017 2019 Amazing pictures are in his work. But then I was reading an article just the other day.


Like, they’ll tell ski BL to WS KR 2018. And he was talking about mitochondria, and something called the uncoupling protein, which made a very important reference to the fact that mitochondria are the energetic, metabolic redox reduction-oxidation redox information signaling centers of the cell. Wow, that’s a very different image.

We’ve gone from an energy factory to this very sentient part of ourselves. And then yesterday, I was reading an article by Dr. Rulez. From 2021, just a few months ago, as the role of copper in the mitochondria. And she used a phrase I’d never seen before, she referred to the mitochondria as biological microchips. Wow, wow. And so we, you know, you and I are graced to have computers that are working, thank, thankfully, knock on wood. And the motherboard of our computers is running on silver, that these machines do not work.

We can’t have this conversation if we don’t have enough silver in our motherboard. Well, it turns out how the motherboard our metabolic motherboard runs on copper. And no one told us that. And so it’s a very different understanding of it, it’s all of its connected. And there’s a program that runs all these mitochondria.

It’s amazing. It’s called an NPK. There’s an actual mic there. That’s the program that runs the microgrid or microchip of the cell. And it’s every mitochondrion. And it’s like, there’s like an OH MY GOSH moment when you realize that, that there is a metabolic program that’s running our vitality, an NPK Oh, and there’s a bad guy program called mTOR. And I know Bob Miller knows all about inventory love to talk about mTOR. And he’s gifted at talking about mTOR. Well, how do you activate mTOR? Iron? How do you activate Amtk copper? And so it’s just, and these are the Cain and Abel forces in our body.

And people don’t realize that there is this primal tension between copper and iron. And it’s phenomenal when you get into it. But you’ve got to step past the paradigm of conventional thinking. And you’ve got to, it’s important to embrace that there’s more to the story. And what I appreciate you all it’s just is that is to have this kind of conversation with someone like yourself who does understand this, and you do seek to bring this knowledge to your community.

And I  commend you for that, because it’s so important, for more people to realize that it is a very straightforward process. It’s just we didn’t have all the pieces of the puzzle. And what the book carrier fatigue does is it introduces new pieces of the puzzle. It’s not it’s not the complete answer. I think it’s good I think it’s a good reference point, helps people understand where the challenges are. But what it’s meant to do is empower the public to begin to take control of their homeostasis, so that they can regain their health. That’s really what it’s about.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, well, thank you for the nice words. It like you said, is the democratization of health care and bringing the power back to the people. And you know, not just at the 30,000 view foot but at the cellular level too. And ultimately, one of the things that I love that you mentioned earlier that especially for people that look at the term adrenal fatigue, which has its controversy, which morally I’m in the process of reporting on the history of how that you know, at while Han Salya was sort of the father of stress research, he did create an initiate the controversy associated with adrenal fatigue because in his three general adaptation theory, named his final stage the exhaustion stage, well, in 1859 are ready a doctor name, Addison, came up with an idea of the fact that there’s this thing that they actually thought it was first and an adrenaline problem because they didn’t realize that at that time, it had yet to be synthesized. But they thought it was the inner part of the adrenals that no longer because the opposite of adrenaline is wasting and fatigue. So they thought it was an adrenaline problem, only to realize that it was the cortical problem And it wasn’t able to put out enough cortisol to meet a baseline amount.

And so medicine already had its definition of what an exhaustion problem was, or insufficiency problem was, and one in 100,000, whereas people read the Internet and come up with a term called adrenal fatigue when in reality, it’s not in the peer-reviewed journals, it’s not taught in the medicine. And in medical schools, just like what we’re talking about right now, and mineral balance and energy production are not taught. And then to your point were misled and misfed. And it becomes almost the thing that upsets me is the dogmatic, holier than thou dismissal, and then the almighty prophet of the dollar to keep it running. But anyway, one of the things I want to talk about, which is probably a good ending point, at least, going through this theory is, I love this concept of, well, I still don’t necessarily agree, I’m just a listener, that it’s this copper thing I heard it’s toxic, that’s more of a problem than deficient.

I am like, I’ve had people I’m sure you’ve had this where their doctor has told them their iron anemic, Morley that they’re that they’ve had to take transfusions, and they’ve had to do it and what you’re telling me is sacrosanct to what’s going on. But what I love is and you told me almost felt like reincarnate in terms of being there in the room when Warburg who research that was laughed that as cancer as a metabolic disease. And ultimately, it can’t be so easy that your cellular respiration is breaking down with the presence of oxygen.

And you found in his disciple, Krebs, who both were scientists with Nobel Prize resumes, and are wanting to understand how does energy gets produced in the body? Like, how does it happen on it, and you found a paper brought it back to life. And it pointed to the importance of copper, and more than iron. So why don’t you Why don’t you kind of finish it off that way? And then we’ll have a To be continued from here.


Morley Robbins: Yeah, that’s great. And I would have had the pleasure of meeting with one of my research heroes, Jamie Collins, University of Florida, and he gave me a give me a Nobel Prize. But it’s like, pretty cool, right? Yeah. We’re gonna ignore the fact that there’s chocolate in the center. But so so we’re dealing with two esteemed scientists, clinicians, these guys were talking about, you know, Hans, crap. Has Adolph Krebs was his full name, and auto, Heinrich Warburg. So these are Germans. This is in pre-war Germany. Where in the late 1920s. And from 1926 to 1930. Krebs works for Warburg just the image of those two working together is just amazing to think about.

And in 1927, they experimented with pigeons and geese. And they bled these birds, almost to the point of death. And so, so what were they doing? They were, they were creating a true state of anemia, test, very little blood. There’s no iron now because the blood is outside of the animal. And they wanted to see what’s the metabolic physiological response to that stressful state for those birds. And what they discovered, much to their surprise, is that in the pigeons, there was a three-fold increase in copper enzymes. And then the geese a six-fold increase in copper enzymes.

Now, against 1927. They hadn’t discovered they will discover so hullo plasmin and its Ferro oxidase enzyme function for 21 years. 1948 is when Homburg and Laurel’s sweetest physiologists discovered this blue protein that is it’s the powerhouse of our body. But back in 1927, they knew what a copper enzyme was. And there was this huge influx in the geese. And what happened to that research. It gets pushed aside. Why? Because it indicated the cop or regulate iron. When you have a near-total loss of iron, and the body responds with copper enzymes, well that’s that tells us who’s in charge. And in the world of homeopathy, copper is referred to as the general. And iron is referred to as the foot soldier.

What’s critical to understand is what we’re talking about Dr. Warburg. This is a guy who got nominated for the nonchocolate form of this battle 47 times 47 times this guy. I don’t think there’s any other scientist on the planet who’s had that kind of recognition. And he wins the Nobel Prize in 1931. For an enzyme that has the classification 1.9 dot 3.1 only reason why I remember this is 1931. And so Dr. Warburg get the Nobel because he’s the one who identified this specific respiratory complex in the electron transport chain.

But here’s the catch. What did he call it, the German phrase was MGS ferment, which means respiratory ferment. But he referred to it in English as iron oxidase and gave no homage to copper. And that threw off scientists for decades because they thought iron was running the mitochondria. When in fact, when you get into the bowels of the research, especially those Rulez 2021 It’s like, it’s copper all over the place.

And that’s what that’s the basis of my research is, of my uncovering the research that I’ve uncovered, is that it’s a copper-dependent mechanism on every level. And again, that just has not been a truth has not been brought forward. Because there’s no, there’s no money in that level of understanding, because it puts, it puts the individual in control, which is really what we’re seeking to do. But that may not be the interests of those who are at the top of the pecking order.

So that’s kind of the history behind it. And what with what Joel was referring to, as I have the sneaking suspicion, I believe in past lives, I have affiliate was a technician off in the corner, saw what happened, and didn’t do anything about it. And now in this lifetime of like, trying to get the word out, come on, folks, it’s hat you think it is.

And it’s almost a comical experience to have the level of insight I have now, you know, again, on the heels of my, my, my college career, and, and yet, it feels at times like my microphone is about an inch high when what I need is an empire state building microphone, and I don’t know. But it’s, it’s these types of conversations that are so invigorating.

And the ripple effect is phenomenal. As you know, you don’t know where these conversations are going to go. So it’s just, it’s always a delight to have this kind of repartee, and you kind of respond to these really important questions. So people have a completely different understanding of what’s going on. I reallocate that.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, well, no, it’s I love hearing the stories. I could just imagine the rolling of the grave when he when it in a way that misled everyone. And then on top of that, the research got buried. And it’s not. It’s like no, that’s not what I meant at all. It reminds me of a story where I heard this story and it just kind of popped into my brain where the little girl asked her mom, why do we cut off the little loaf of the of though?

You know, and if you heard this story before, ya know, I’ll just leave it for the listener to understand. So I finished the thought. And she’s well, that’s because grandma does that. And you know, it’s a family tradition. So I might be butchering it.

So I got Yeah. And so, you know, Grandma happened to be there. And the girl asked her Grandma, why do you cut that end of why did we cut this off? And I was like, what was your great grandmother did that and lo and behold, the great grandmother was there too. And she asked the great grandmother, well, why did you cut the end of the meatloaf off?

And she said, well, because we didn’t have a big enough, you no cooking pan to put it in. And I think that’s apropos in terms of what we’re talking about and how we get misled and miss fed, and intentionally to and it’s that it’s of that Glassglasshousehe first stone that’s cast leads us to false truths and as you put as missing information is missing truths. And what we have now as you have seen and mentioned is almost if watch Seinfeld, the George Costanza approach to healthcare is Dodoesexact opposite of what we’ve been told, and will probably do well, right.

But on top of that, it’s not only that, it’s the fact that there’s a pen more than a pandemic, of energy crisis. And, and even though within you, you allude to it a lot with food, and it’s, it’s small, the small of savings or my wife always says to me, the lazy man works twice as hard, right? If you would have just done the job in the beginning, and I think what’s going to be happening is, we have this pandemic of metabolic dysfunction, or tidal wave, not even pandemic is a good word, because it’s the reason why people do so poorly when they get exposed to, to a virus, and they’re being told to do other things that are making their energy productions problems even worse, and more likely to do worse with that.

But either way, what I’m trying to say is, is that we’ve tripping over dollars to save pennies, and with the food and the processing and how much cheaper it is, ultimately, gonna have to pay the piper at some point where you’re going to have the bankrupting of our system because of all of these chronic illnesses, that that are coming our way, or are here ready. But as much as I say because morally, I’m from Canada originally.

And I say, when you move to the US, it’s the best of the best and the worst of the worst. And I feel that where we are with weight research is, wow, this is daunting and overwhelming. And there are the people that are suffering from formation and fatigue, there is a root cause protocol, which is out there, which is not meant to be a cookie-cutter program. It’s meant to be massaged, and, and customized.

But it’s very therapeutic and effective at producing energy and decreasing the demand and supply in quality so that your body has the intelligence to do what it will with it. And I guess that’s what we’ll do with our next part. So I guess what I would ask you in passing as well, let’s say this has piqued people’s interest that hasn’t heard of you. And it’s amazing. And you offer great information, whether it’s the book itself or on your website, the actual protocols to do and start and begin. So where can the listener find that morally? And why don’t you tell them a little bit about that?


Morley Robbins: Absolutely. For those that are on social media, there’s a Facebook page. On the Facebook group, there’s a Facebook group called the magnesium advocacy group on the Facebook page is the root cause protocol. There’s a website RCP for root cause protocol, RCP 123 dot o RG and now there’s a book it’s called cure your fatigue, very against play on words is, as Joel noted, the CU is a little box on Etsy, recognize the symbol for copper, the cure your fatigue, and you can get that on Amazon, books, Barnes, all the platforms, you won’t find it in your mom and pop bookstores yet, let’s go take a little bit of time. But it’s doing well. This is a very healthy sales process to undertake.

I’m pleased with the receptivity that people have to the book as it comes in a physical book and an ebook. And in the spring, there’ll be an audiobook available for people because I know folks are always on the fly and in need of other ways to get their information. And the other thing that people if they’re at all peaked and kind of intrigued by this, we have a training program. So 16-week training programs called the RCP Institute. Again, you can Google that, and you can find it on that RSVP 123 dot o RG. And then for the critical few, there’s always some that want to reach out personally, my email address, it’s just my first and last name at Gmail. And for those enterprising folks, my phone number is area code 84792 to 8061. This is usually when the podcast houses like you gave out your cell phone number.

And I’ve done that for years because I figure it’s better to make the information available. And people seem to have the self-regulating capacity, you know when it’s important to call or not. And I welcome calls and look forward to the conversation. So a lot of different ways to reach out. There are probably 100 Are podcasts conversations like this out there? They’re getting really exciting as, as people, more people are reading the book and begin to understand this. So I think there’s, there’s no shortage of opportunity to hear me blah, blah, blah.

And it’s always fun to talk with people like Joe who gets it. I mean, it’s like, I wish we had recorded the first two conversations we had, it was all it was a blitzkrieg of information back and forth. And, I genuinely appreciate the work that you’ve done, to amass your understanding. And I look forward to our continued dialogue going forward because I think it’s gonna, we’re gonna uncover some fun nuances for people, especially, I still I’ve just, I’m loving over it too much overhead, I love that.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Oh, good. I’m glad to contribute something, I think is an investment, too, to you, to make yourself available to anyone that wants a little more insight. And you’re right, it’s a self-selecting process. And ultimately, for me, there have been little nuances that have increased my understanding. So what we’ll do is we’ll take it, we’ll keep it at the one standard deviation, but we’ll maybe get a little bit more into the weeds because a lot of the things that I look at as well get into the genomics, and it doesn’t mean just because you have this gene snip, it’s a one gene snip approach.

It’s a it’s a sort of a 3d chess game played underwater, even though I agree with you morally, in terms of, it’s a real tell for me now, I almost sort of, kind of wish I didn’t you know, sometimes you wish you don’t know what you know, now, but I’m past that point where I have tells when I know, people tell me that they’re taking ascorbic acid or vitamin D, there’s all these tells now that I have where I like, Okay, you’re not, you’re not on the wavelength of fundamentally producing energy at the level that you need to, and it becomes but but with that being said, I do want to take it that next step level with our next conversation and get into what Surulere plasm is, get into the importance of vitamin A,

you know, one of the things I’ll tell you is the MBR, the magnesium burn rate was a real game changer for me, I we all know about how important magnesium, in fact, we underestimate not just the enzyme function, but the protein function and how many more by by 10s of you know, 10 times more important in cellular energy production and running this show. That was a big game-changer for me. So thank you so much, because those little nuances, you know, in terms of the Pareto principle one to two to 3% of the things you change, get 97% of the results.

And I’ve been seeing that firsthand. So so thank you so much for that, but we’ll do it to be continued. Everyone knows how to get in contact with you. And we’ll be publishing this soon. And I look forward to part two. So thank you so much for your time today. Morley.


Morley Robbins: You bet. Thanks so much for the chance to have this dialogue.


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