How To Get Your Stress Levels Out Of The Red Zone

Dr. Joel Rosen: Alright, hello, everyone and welcome back to another edition of your adrenal fix podcast where our mission is, to tell the truth about adrenal fatigue to exhausted and burnt-out adults so that they can get their health back quickly. And today, I’m joined here with a buddy of mine and friend and CEO and founder of heads up health whose mission is to power the data-driven healthcare revolution. David Korsunsky, thank you so much for being here today.


David Korsunsky: Yeah, thanks, Joel, great to be back and excited to dig in here man, was a good friend and have a great conversation.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yes, absolutely. I’m always interested to talk to you in terms of the data-driven revolution, which basically means taking accountability for your health, looking at the numbers that really mean something for people that I work with, that are exhausted and burnt out. But I know you have your own personal story, Dave, in terms of how you got to be the CEO and founder of this company. So why don’t you just take a stroll down memory lane and tell us a little bit about your background and why you’re doing what you’re doing?


David Korsunsky: Yeah, thanks, man. Well, the topic of this show is actually very relevant to my own personal journey. And just to back up a little bit, I was always someone who was trying to push myself physically in the gym, because for whatever reason, I was just always a little heavier than all my friends. And even though I worked out more, I could never achieve any type of comparable body composition and, and that frustrated me. So I was always someone who was in the gym, trying to work on myself. But I was in central Canada, growing up in a small town, I didn’t really understand diet or nutrition at all, I was on a standard American diet, as I would call it. Now, in hindsight, I was probably putting the worst things into my body that it possibly could and then trying to make up for it in the gym, and it just doesn’t work. So when I moved to California, and I started working in a big tech company, in Silicon Valley, I, I had those I had the same lack of knowledge around nutrition, I was in a very, very high-stress environment at work. And my work stress levels were starting to get into what I would call the red zone.


In the office, this was purely work-related stress, but very severe, I was going through some very difficult situations, I was a young director in the company, I had a large team of people that we’re older and more experienced than I was, I had long commutes every single day, sometimes 60 to 90 minutes each way in the car every day on the freeway, in a stressful job working for an extremely difficult boss, who was just up my butt. And we were in a bad place there. I was historically when I would code exercise that used to help me manage my stress. And so that was something I turned to when I would deal with the work stress. But as I’m sure you’re acutely aware, when your stress levels get in the red zone, actually, the training can start making it worse. And I started noticing things like on days where I lift heavy, I could not fall asleep at night. And I didn’t understand why. And on the days when I didn’t train, I could fall asleep. And that never used to happen to me before. So that was getting weird. And I actually at one point, I had a few I guess I would call them um, anxiety attacks, you know, it only happened a few times.


But for those who are listening, and they’ve had them, it’s very strange, out of body type of experience. And you don’t really know what it is. And these were all driven by the word stress. I’m 100% certain of that. But I didn’t know what they were I was not medical personnel. I’m a technology person, a layperson, medically speaking. So I was in distress RedZone I couldn’t sleep. I was having what I would call maladaptive stress, as my naturopathic doctor at the time described it. So I didn’t really know how to approach that situation. I went to my conventional doctor who I had a decent relationship with and ransom blood work and couldn’t really find anything out of sorts. I’m sure you hear this story all the time, man. And so then I, that just wasn’t a satisfactory answer to me because I could feel something was out of sorts only, you know, your own body and your own physical and emotional and, and other types of symptoms. So I mean, obviously, you know, there’s something there. So actually it was a functional medicine doctor that I connected with, and he ran the adrenal saliva cortisol test for me. Now, keep in mind, I was always interested in getting my blood work run, I’d always had perfect blood work, you know, they’d run the CBC and the cholesterol and the basics for me always came back squeaky clean. So there was nothing in my bloodwork, quote, unquote, to indicate that anything was wrong. But when the adrenal saliva cortisol, the 24-hour test came back, it was pretty apparent that the energy levels, the energy systems, the HPA axis are a technical word,


Basically, that system was broken, basically. And that was the first test that had ever come back. And I’d done them all that indicated, something needed to be done. So I was pleased, I’m like, Okay, this is a clue, finally, a clue. And that, that those, those cortisol levels, being out of whack, like that, is, is a pretty good symptom, that that there’s something in the lifestyle that is putting too much stress load on the body. And so that was the first tip that I got that things were there, and the functional doctor started educating me on like, why that might happen. And so I started, one of the first things I did was, was starting to practice meditation, which is an again, I know small-town guy grew up playing hockey, drinking beer. You know, going out with the guys having fun, I didn’t know what meditation was. But I had a hunch that maybe this could help. So I started meditating 20 minutes before bed every night, just with kind of the lights off. And that was awesome. And it made a huge difference. And when I would, when I would be unable to sleep, for whatever reason, stress reasons, I would actually put a guided meditation on in my headphones and lie in bed and the guided meditation. It was called a body scan meditation.


Basically, it’s a, it was jack Kornfield was the guy who led the meditation. With meditation. Sometimes it’s easier if someone’s guiding you, that’s just kind of like, the way the mind works. So I would put my headphones on and it was a 40-minute meditation and they guided you on a body scan from top to bottom of your body. I was out like a light before they even got. So that worked. Even when I was in those high cortisol posted post-workout wired to in the morning, staring at the ceiling can’t sleep. The guided meditations would do it every single time like a champ. So that was pretty cool. And then I started making some progress. And this was maybe eight, nine years ago. I then stumbled across the bulletproof diet from Dave Asprey. This was 2011 2012 he was still in Silicon Valley and still working in big tech and was doing this really underground biohacker kind of stuff. But I read the bulletproof diet, basically paleo, low sugar paleo. But for me, that was a huge change. I was still eating bread and pasta, and I didn’t know how to read a label and see how much sugar was in something. I thought low fat was the best thing to look for on the label. But not understanding that, that those calories had just been substituted with sugar, which was actually worse. So I started changing my diet. Man, my body composition started changing. Now that’s something that was a riddle to me my whole life. I’m like, oh, okay, so pretty cool. I still didn’t understand blood sugar regulation.


At that time. In hindsight, what that was doing was helping me eat a diet that was more stable in blood sugar. So I started measuring my, my nutrition, and my body composition, and that all started getting better. And that started getting me really interested. Hey, what, what else can I learn from some of these numbers? And then I said, Okay, let me call up my doctors. I’d had four doctors over the last 10 or 15 years, and I asked him to send me my medical records because, at this time, it was still all paper. And so I got four packages in the mail. One from Boston, a few from California. But it was a mess. I’m like, I’ve got 20 PDF files here. What the heck am I supposed to do with this crap? And it was largely useless data, maybe if you look at the most read. But if you want to look at a trend line on your thyroid, for example, you can’t start flipping through 20 files and scanning every page and finding the TSH and it’s horrendous. So what I did was, on a rainy day, I just took all the PDFs. And I put the values into a spreadsheet that I made myself. And that was when the light bulb went off, I’m like, oh, my goodness, I can see 10 times more into my health history, even in my doctor, and not even a medical person. It was exciting and also terrifying. Because, like, the healthcare system at large, has no capabilities of doing this at all, if you’ve changed doctors, if you’ve lived in the same place and been in the same health system your whole life, you don’t have that problem. That wasn’t me, I moved around. And, I didn’t even want to go to Prague.


Dr. Joel Rosen: just interrupt, sorry to interrupt, even with the same doctor, it’s not like they’re really looking at it on the same page, you know, in the context that you just did, you know what I mean? Like they, they’re not really looking at it as a timeline. So I didn’t keep going I just, but like, it’s a problem, and then said, if you’re switching doctors, but it’s also a problem if you’re with the same doctor because they’re not looking at it in that way, either.


David Korsunsky: And they’ll take it one step further, I didn’t even want to see a primary care doctor anymore, they didn’t find anything. Right. So I needed to the data was all in these patient portals. And I needed my functional doctor to access it. That was impossible. So my only option was to build the spreadsheet myself and send it to the doctor. And I’m like, hey, look, some of these values have been going out of range for a really long time, nobody noticed. And that gave the functional doctor another clue. And I had a GI Gram-negative bacteria in the GI that was out of control. So there was an imbalance, that that was very highly correlated with stress disorders. So I had the emotional stress at work, and then the microbiome thing was actually exacerbating the stress even more. And then I was going to the gym trying to relieve my stress and, and that training was compounding even more. So I was just compounding myself into the dirt, basically. And so when I had all of the labs myself now, for those listening, I’m not a medical person, I didn’t necessarily know what all these tests meant, nor would I expect anyone else to know.


But I knew the ones I needed to pay attention to. And my functional doctor and I would, we’d get on a Skype call this was when Skype was cool, we’d get on a Skype call, and I’d share my screen. And I’d open up the spreadsheet and we’d look at the numbers and you’d say, okay, we’re going to do this protocol for three months, he’d send me the protocol, the supplements, and the changes. And then we’d retest and he’d say, Okay, these are the two or three tests here that I really want to see improving for you, that is going to tell me that you’re on the right path. And actually, that got kind of fun. Because now that was gamified. And so now it was getting to be a challenge, like, okay, let’s see if we can move these numbers I had, I had something to work on specifically. And, man, I just got really intrigued by this idea. And so um, when I finally decided to take some time off from the tech job, I took six months off, and I was fortunate enough to have some savings. So I could do that. And I started building this software application myself, basically just to glorify the spreadsheet. And what I wanted to do was take the spreadsheet and put it in a web application in the cloud, so that my functional doctor could log in. And I could keep all the bloodwork there. And I could also upload things like my blood glucose readings and my blood pressure readings. Because of my stress, my blood pressure was high. So I was testing that pretty regularly. And I would put those readings in there. And that also became super helpful because it for people who are stressed, they may relate when you go to the doctor, the first thing they do is sit you down and check your blood sugar even if you just, you know, walk from the parking space and you’re late. And that’s the number that goes in the file. And your blood pressure, blood pressure, blood pressures, yeah, blood pressure, and you’re already nervous because you’re psychologically freaking yourself out.


After all, you don’t want the blood pressure to be high. And so I started testing that at home. And I could see the patterns in that information. One of the patterns actually was related to the quality of my sleep. And so I noticed on the days where I’d get a really good sleep. My blood pressure was lower consistently. That’s still the case today. Ah, so all of this data became incredibly intellectually fascinating to me. And I was able to work through all of the maladaptive stress situations, I am completely 100% symptom-free right now. And I did it through my own initiative to start self-measuring, which helped me to develop an awareness of my body that I didn’t have before. And so I was using the technology and the sensors and the labs to measure myself, work with a great, functional doctor. And that just kind of led me down the path to this app. So I had built it for myself. And then I just decided to release it to the public. It was free. I was still working for technology companies at the time, it was a passion project. So that’s what I enjoyed doing in the evenings and on weekends as a hobby.

And.. it was a funny man that all of a sudden, people started coming through the front door in route 2015, and started emailing us people. I’m like, Hey, you logged in, like 20 times today on the system, like, what are you doing? I thought maybe it was a hacker. And he’s like, No, I’m on a keto diet. And, and these keto guys had. And girls, they were using My Fitness Pal. If you know about keto, you have to precisely track your carbs and calories and protein and fat. So, my software was connected to my fitness pal. So these people were putting their My Fitness Pal data onto the dashboard in my app. And then they were also measuring their blood sugar and their ketones, which you could also put on the heads up the dashboard. So they had that information. And they were also measuring weight and body fat,

Dr. Joel Rosen: with integration right with machines do.


David Korsunsky: Or you could just enter it manually if you have a glucometer that’s not Bluetooth. And at that time, there were no connected ketone meters and stuff like that. So they are just punching it in. And they were measuring body fat and weight because a lot of them were athletes. And they had their labs in there. And I’m like, Hey, I don’t, I’ve never even heard of keto, I don’t even know what you’re talking about. But I’m glad that the app is helpful for you. So anyhow, people just start using it, using it, using it, using it. And I just decided to make it my passion and quit my job and go all in man, and you’re very familiar with our system. It’s incredibly challenging to build a global scale technology platform when I didn’t have the money to go hire developers to go do this. So you got to find ways to do it creatively and, and you got to get pretty thick-skinned, because it’s going to suck for the first few years when you’re just working on it yourself and users have crap all over you if it’s even slightly nonfunctional, not knowing that the pain that goes into doing this. So I’m fast forward, man, we’ve been working on it for a few years. It’s going great. This type of self-monitoring transformed my life. And I want to offer that to other people.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, no, dude, I’m proud of you to hear that story. I told you when I when it came on my radar, that there’s this I guess a dispensary that houses this information that it’s way ahead of its time, and it is going to revolutionize health care favorably. So I’m interested in discussing more heads up health and how the listener can start to do that themselves. But take us back to the stress RedZone I wrote those words down. I thought that was a great description Dave. Maybe just talked about, for the listener that can empathize with Yeah, that’s how I felt like how bad did it actually get with the boss up your butt and all the demands and already have some of the genetic susceptibilities, to not respond well in the gym, and really not really understanding the importance of nutrition and stabilizing your blood sugar. Now that you do know all that we can get more into that. Tell us how bad it was like how much had that stress impacted you at the 30,000 view foot of just being able to do stuff during the day?


David Korsunsky: Well, I’d say I was pretty fortunate there I was still able to go to work every single day. There were definitely times at work where I didn’t feel like myself. And I could kind of feel it just getting the better of me so I definitely felt off. There were definitely times where I didn’t want to be there. But I was able to out I was always able to go and keep doing my job. And I had a pretty significant level of responsibility. In the company, I had people reporting to me I had team members to manage. So I couldn’t check out completely or lose my job, but I was able to, wasn’t an option. So I felt like some days, it just felt absolutely awful. But you go through it, and I, I was able to work through it. There was probably a period of six months where it was just, I just felt really, I don’t know, it’s hard to find the words for it, it’s just a, just a very unpleasant sensation that you’re kind of dealing with, at a sub-level while you’re, you’re going about your day today. So that part was hard. The Yes, insomnia part of it was also just super frustrating. If the challenge I’d have is, and in doing some research, I also started to realize that, you know, the kind of like this exercise-induced insomnia is, is often related to just the body after a heavy lift just stays in a hyper-vigilance mode for hours and hours and hours.


Whereas a normal person, it’ll go back down to normal at a certain time after the workout. But in some people where the stress is elevated, it never comes down. So I figured that out afterward. And so I was able to adjust my training routine. As long as I got it done in the morning, I was okay, and I’ll just back off some of the intensity. So I started figuring out ways to do that. But, but the days where I couldn’t sleep, man, it was so frustrating, because when your body is in the red zone, um, sometimes what will happen is, as soon as you drift off into light sleep, your body will jolt you awake because it’s in a persistent state of threat. And so it does not want you to fall asleep, because it almost views that as a threat. So if I would, my body would jolt awake as soon as I doze off, and that was just beyond annoying. And that’s where the guided meditations would help, for example, so there was those that part of it, which I, which I had to deal with, um, and there was also that that contributes just to body composition, I think I was probably my heaviest ever at that time. So I had to I had a lot of work to do there. As I mentioned, as soon as I changed the diet, made a massive difference I had, I was never raised to understand blood sugar and bread and pasta and sugar and crap like that. I had to figure all that stuff out myself. And it’s hard. It takes a long time. So it was a huge journey, man. Just those were some of the things that I was going through.

Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, no, thanks for sharing. And I’m glad that you use that as winds behind your sails Not in front of, you know, to move forward. As far as a couple of just things that I think of right away, I know that I’ve had a chance to look into your genes in terms of genetics and understand that there’s a real relationship there. And actually, there’s a company now that maybe I don’t know if you’ve heard of it’s called fit, fit DNA fit. Yeah,


David Korsunsky:  they’ve been on my radar. I haven’t worked with them. But if they’ve come across my radar screen,


Dr. Joel Rosen: yeah. So they’re on my radar now. And I’m going through their training, and they have a different way to look at those genes in terms of what kind of exercises to customize for your specific genetic type. So some people do better with long aerobic exercises. Some other people do better with high burst intensity exercises. So I’m now implementing that into my genetic assessments to customize the recovery. And I’m guessing that based on your genetic profile, there is something there for whenever you lift heavy, and but it would be good to integrate that information with your heads up data tracking information. And perhaps there is you know, we’ll both follow up on that. But so as far as the other things I wanted to talk to you about is you were talking about gamifying and I like the idea of blood sugar regulation. And now you have gotten so much more sophisticated than just tracking out your labs. Tell us some of the things that I mean, you mentioned blood pressure. you’re mentioning blood glucose, you’re mentioning My Fitness Pal or even chronometer so you can upload the data but tell us now about some of the specialized like D DNA stuff or functional medicine stuff, or even other wearables, so that you can really like number crunch because you have those algorithms in there that really sift out those trends. Because as you mentioned, you’re not a doctor, but you needed to be able to design your software so that you can see relevant correlations with numbers trending in a certain direction. So why don’t you give us some insight as to the CEO of the heads up? How, what are those? What are some of those key correlations and the utility of the software?

David Korsunsky: Well, I’ll start with some of the most important metrics for me, relatively speaking. And I would, I would say, the first one is, is blood sugar regulation. And, you know, for people who aren’t diabetic, it’s kind of a stretch to ask them to go by a glucometer. And stick their finger every morning and squeeze out a little droplet of blood, and check your blood sugar every morning, I get that. But that’s probably the most important metric for me, not just for controlling stress, because if your blood sugar is completely deranged, that’s gonna affect the entire system related to cortisol production, energy production, stress management, sleep regulation, all of those hormones go out of whack when you’re when your blood sugar is deranged. So I think the first thing for me was just tick checking my blood sugar. As soon as I woke up in the morning before I had any coffee, or breakfast, or anything like that. And I started learning how I could change diet and exercise to get that blood sugar into the optimal zone. And I could wake up in the morning and be right around that 85 milligrams per deciliter, sweet spot. And I think that’s the most important for health, for longevity, for performance. So just learning how to control blood sugar, naturally to diet and exercise without medication or anything like that. That is a skill that I believe everyone should develop for their entire life. And starting to figure out how to do that. And so I’ll just share a few things that that worked. For me, obviously, the carbohydrate content is a big part of that is the type of carbohydrates.


So I’ve learned how to choose foods that will keep those fasting blood sugar readings in the morning and check, I would kind of look at the fasting blood sugar in the morning as a kind of like my report card from the day before. And I knew that if I had eaten a heavy carb meal late at night and had done less activity, I had fewer steps the day before the fasting glucose, the next day was going to be higher. So I’d wake up, and that was kind of my report card. So I think that’s, that’s the first thing everybody should learn. And you should figure out how to get your own personal glucose into that sweet spot for yourself. The sweet spot is a little different for everybody. But develop that level of mastery first, that that’d be my number one recommendation. The next number, I think is super important for me, anyhow, was learning how to put my body into the state of ketosis, which is just something the body has evolved with over the course of millions of years. It’s there, learn how to use it. And it was a starvation defense mechanism A long time ago. Now Now we can use it as a tool to help us control weight and neurological conditions. For me, mostly, that helped me also I believe, break a lot of them I don’t want to call them addictions but white carbs. It’s just not easy to completely walk away from those you know, it sounds all glorious when you say I got off of them but bread and and and those highly processed foods are not easy to walk away from. Right? I mean, totally man. And the first time I got my ketones up to like one millimole per liter on the meter, so I knew I was deep in ketosis eliminated all desires.

Dr. Joel Rosen: Sure.


David Korsunsky: And you could have put up my favorite crappy food in front of me in a state of ketosis, I would have no desire to eat it at all. The ability to control and regulate appetite when you’re in this state of ketosis absolutely blew my mind. And that was a big one for me. heart rate variability and sleep, I’d say what would be the next ones. So there are some good sleep trackers out there. And even for me just having some data on how much I was getting was insightful. As soon as I started tracking my sleep, I realized I was only getting five and a half, six hours of sleep every night because I had to be up early for the commission. And I didn’t realize how little I was getting. So even just getting some basic bedtime wake time information was helpful.


But now some of the devices like the aura ring, the bio strap, and some of the Garmin devices, they’re measuring the heart rate variability while you sleep. And it’s incredibly accurate. And the heart rate variability, as you know is this kind of stress metric. A lot of people may not know that you can pretty accurately measure the stress on the nervous system using HRV. devices, elite HRV is another good one. But that’s now probably the most important metric for me, because now I’m a business owner, and I have to manage my energy levels. And I have to avoid burnout. So I’m always checking my heart rate variability, my sleep, I’ve been able to improve my heart rate variability by almost 40%, this year, just by starting to optimize the quality of my sleep, and my lifestyle. So I think those are all I’d say, those are some of the most important ones. And then you’ll start to see those show up in the lab work as well, where you’ll start to see, for example, the hemoglobin a one C, start to really come down, when you start learning how to control your blood sugar, naturally, especially if you’re in the state of ketosis, it’ll come down. And that means you’re doing a really good job with blood sugar regulation, which improves all of the adrenal stuff as well, the sleep quality.


So I mean, that’s, that’s kind of why I say start there, if anything, because that’s all you can do, because of your current state, I would say, start learning how to do that, that’ll start getting everything else to kind of fall in line. So those are some of the ones that I think, at least now we have hundreds of metrics that you can monitor in it, it’s different for everybody, the heads up a dashboard for our professional athletes are completely different than the heads up dashboard. For a cancer patient or a diabetic, they’re measuring very different physiological parameters. So with our system, you just set up your own personal dashboard. And you can pull in the metrics you want from apple watch, from keto Mojo, get your lab work organized, make sure you have that information yourself, not your doctor, you can share it with them.


But you have to have that information, do not defer to the doctors on that one. So I think it’s important for you to intellectually have some way to look at information yourself, connect that back with your lifestyle. And for a lot of people, that’s going to be a really good solution for the long, long game, in terms of self-managing your health. And then for some people, they’re going to need to work with an expert like yourself, and they may need to go deeper. And they may need to, or it could just be because you want to optimize yourself. So then you may want to start running some of the genetic analysis. And you may want to start running the heavy metals tests. And you may want to start running like the urine metabolites and the stool analysis. So you can do that because you’re just curious and you love health optimization, or because you’ve done the basics, and things still aren’t getting better. And then you have to start double-clicking and going into the more specialized functional tests.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, no, Dave awesome information. Because I agree 100% where if you need to start somewhere, you need to control your blood glucose, you need to understand what’s happening in real-time, understand the difference between physiological need and psychological need. That’s really huge. And I also would say that we know now that there’s not really a major hack in the sense that neuro psycho Immuno endocrinology and the Korean gastro all of it is is one unit now. And it’s all correlating and communicating all at the same time. But absolutely, with the blood glucose, the heart rate variability, the sleep, one of the interesting things you said is the steps. How active were you? What time were your meals, there are so many things that once you have a couple of hours like you put the AHA like, yeah, whenever I have a heavy lift, I’m not sleeping well, or whenever my blood pressure is the highest, I’m not sleeping well. And that’s where you can then customize and fish in a stocked pond, so to speak, and use the sonar to know where to drop the line and catch the bait and not waste your time. So that’s awesome information. And that’s what heads up health is really really about for sure. So I always listen, I’m gonna have to do a part three, and because there’s so much stuff we get into, but I always like to get into with the last question that I asked my guest Dave is knowing You know now, in terms of say these metrics, the bio hacks, blood glucose, or even just happiness and quality of life, what would you tell the young, probably just as handsome Dave, back in the day, you know of, Hey, this is what you need to do a kit to leapfrog where you were, to where you are, what would that advice been?


David Korsunsky: I wouldn’t change a thing, brother. I really, I love life. I love the journey. I love the ups and downs, I love the highs and lows. I love just getting in the ring right in there being in the eye of the storm, I love. If you don’t have a health situation, you’re never going to learn how to change your health. So out of any of these situations comes our greatest personal growth. And this health situation led me down the most rewarding career and life path I could have ever been on. So for those who are still in the struggle, just know that this is a journey. And that struggle is impermanent. And it will end up being your greatest blessing if you want it to be. So I think I think the ones who have to go through the hardest challenges jaw are the most fortunate, in my opinion. I wouldn’t change anything.


Dr. Joel Rosen: That’s an awesome answer. I mean, that’s part of what we teach to Dave is the outlook, the gratitude, the celebration, you know, think like a monk is a great book that just came out. It talks about the biosphere, I think it was in Arizona, and they had huge these huge trees that would fall over. And they realize that the reason why they would fall over was that they didn’t have any external stressors like wind and storms to get those roots firmly fastened into the ground. Yeah, that’s an analogy of totally man. Yeah. It gives us strength, it defines who we are. It’s our battle wounds and our battle scars that make us beautiful and make us stronger for the next battle. And I think that’s a huge life lesson, it’s stress is you’re meant to handle the things that you’re handled, that may not be fair, for sure. And other people have more fortune or less fortune than you do. But it’s how you use the wind to propel you forwards or backward. I think that’s kind of the main lesson. Awesome, awesome stuff. So as far as I will post links to being able to access this, this information. Do you have any trials or anything like that that are going on? How does that work? If I hey, this sounds like an amazing thing. What do I do to get started? How does it work kind of stuff like that? Yeah,

David Korsunsky: if you’re just wanting to test it out, you can go try it out, touch up You can try it for 30 days, we don’t ask for a credit card, you can start doing some self-measurement. We have some good instructions in there. Just to get up and running. Try you know, the first thing my functional doctor asked me to do, Joel was he said, Hey, Dave, go eat your favorite breakfast. I don’t care what it is Danny’s pancakes, bacon eggs go your favorite breakfast, I want you to check your blood sugar one hour and two hours after you eat that meal. Tell me what it is. So I would say just start there, go do that. Go get a glucometer to go do that or start measuring some other things. So you can try it for free. If you like it, you can get on a subscription plan and start using it to self-monitor. And then if you’re a healthcare professional, and you want to have access to some of these parameters on your clients, we have a professional version where you can you know everything in healthcare now is virtual. Nobody’s going in the office unless it’s an emergency because of the Coronavirus situation. So everybody’s got a doctor’s office at home now. And if you’re a health care professional getting those vital signs remotely, it’s just as good. So we also have a professional version where you can use it to do remote health, basically. So it’s all available online. Go for it. I’d love the feedback. I’m an open book, you can find me David heads up I love hearing from our users with good and bad feedback. I’ve got thick skin at this point in the game. So I’d love to hear from you. So just try it out. And hopefully, this can help you on the journey.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Awesome, information. One lesson that I learned from someone I interviewed the other day was Gary Vander checks personal trainer. And Gary told him that whenever he would get negative feedback and comments in getting frustrated or irritated about it, he would feel sorry for them. Like you know, for someone to be in that much pain to have to reach out and make other people feel pain is they’ve got to be in pain. So it kind of changes your energy on things you know in terms of people that are suffering need help and that’s what you’re providing. I love your heads-up Health app, I got it, I do it with my clients need to continue doing it more, deeper, and more with more sophistication. And But listen, Dave, I appreciate your time. I know you got a big weekend plan. So I want to make sure that you are rested and ready to go for that. And I look forward to the next time that we talk.

David Korsunsky: Hey, I want to say one thing to Joel, I just want to say that thanks to practitioners like you, because it’s not easy out there, building practice for yourself when you got to go out there and make it happen. And it’s not easy working on a lot of this stuff. And I know how hard it is for all of the functional doctors out there who are trying to deliver meaningful health care working outside the system. And it’s incredibly challenging, but it can be profound for a lot of people if they’re lucky enough to find guys like you. So I would say in return, thank you for all the information you put out there. You have a massive body of work designed to help people. That’s it. And so I would extend the same gratitude towards you, my friend.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Well, thanks so much. We’ll have to win the world opens up again, we will definitely be sharing a glass of wine that doesn’t get our blood sugar to spike too much.


David Korsunsky: I think there’s a conference in Las Vegas that we got to hit together, Doc. So once that’s all available, we’ll get back to traveling again.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Figure out if heads up health have an app to clone yourself. Because if they do, so I’m there for sure. 100% You know, all right,


David Korsunsky: I’ll keep working on you. Rosen. We’ll get you out. conference or something like that sometimes.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Definitely Will. all right, my friend, you have a good rest of your day. I appreciate your time and look forward to the next time we talk.


David Korsunsky: All right brother.


Click here To get your free 30 day trial at heads up health


To listen to our first podcast with CEO of heads-up Health Dave Korsunsky click here

Get Adrenal Fatigue "Warrior" Toolkit

  • An easy to understand, guide on how to communicate with your doctor about your adrenal health
  • How to quickly and accurately identify your key reversible stressors
  • Quickly learn about the most important hormone tests that identify the problem
  • Easy, effective solutions to getting back your energy
  • My TOP 10 Adrenal Warrior Supplements with a complete video explanation