How To Fight Fatigue Empathy

Dr. Joel Rosen: Alright, Hello everyone and welcome back to another edition of the less stress life where we teach exhausted and burnt out adults the truth about adrenal fatigue so that they can get their health back quickly. And I’m joined with a friend, a colleague, even a mentor, and someone I always look forward to talking to. This is actually our third conversation for our podcast.

Dr. Kelly Halderman. She’s a researcher, she’s an author, she’s a clinician, she’s a nutraceutical. Formulator she’s the Dean of Students, I don’t know how she has all the time to do all this. She’s also a mom, and a business person, and everything else in between. So, Dr. Kelly, welcome to the show. Once again,


Dr. Kelly Halderman: Thank you, Dr. Jill, awesome to be here for number 330


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, exactly. And you know, I’m excited about the topic because you sort of whispered in my ear, the idea of empathy and how that relates to people that are exhausted and burnt out. And this is a switch of a case from what we’ve talked about with detox 2.5 or, and also talking about utilizing fat and bile movement and all of the above. So why don’t you start with why how you got started or what triggered you to put this on your radar for empathy and how it relates to health,


Dr. Kelly Halderman: Sir, so honestly, I am really not what I would consider a touchy-feely empathic person at all, I feel like I, you know, mothering didn’t come easy to me, relationships don’t really come easy to me. And I’ve always had to work really hard to be like what I’ve always thought of, as is empathic, you know, and some people are really blessed, and they’re just so empathically wonderful, and they can really be loving, nurturing, caring people, and I just think that’s amazing. But we’re not all gifted at everything. So I’ll start by saying, like, this is not my Avenue.

This is not something that I would say, Oh, you know, I’m going to read books on empathic people. You know, we’ve all heard about this empathy is part of life and having empathy for people and that’s something that I had, but it wasn’t until I met a brilliant practitioner who’s been helping me with some neural retraining and it had to do with my adrenal fatigue and my chronic fatigue and some of the symptoms that I literally have been struggling with for decades right and she said to me, should we got to know each other as a, you know, practitioner and kind of as an as a friend as well. She said to me about a month ago, maybe a little bit more. Kelly, I think that you’re an empath, and I thought, what like I am I’m not an empath.

Like I like everything I just said right. It’s very, she goes, I think you need to read the work of Dr. Judith Orlov, f o. r. l. o FF, MD. So she is a psychiatrist, who writes about empaths and things and so Okay, all right, I’m open to it. Right. Whenever we’ll fix the fatigue, right? Like you know, I mean, I’m there I’m doing really well my house great, but I’m like, okay, so I started reading a doctor, Dr. Judas work. And lo and behold, she has this huge connection between the symptoms, chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia, anxiety, depression, with being an empath. And so there’s a questionnaire and about being an empath.

And so, um, you know, I really suggest your listeners that, that it’s something that you can, you can actually do it for free, looking her up, but you know, going through the questionnaire, doctors will I think that’s maybe where we can kind of start is kind of looking at like, what do you think of as an empath, because I didn’t think I was at all and then I took this questionnaire and I’m like, Oh, my gosh, I am and how it plays into health. And I want to talk to you, doctor, so I’m gonna turn the mic around because this is exactly what I think of as genetic susceptibility. You know, when we have those genetic tests, and they’re completely different, you know, let’s say like two people have Lyme disease, and one’s genetics are just a mess, and the others are pretty darn good. So who is going to display the symptoms?

Who’s gonna it’s the person whose genetics have not been optimized, right. This is the same thing with an empath who has not learned to optimize themselves because being an empath is absolutely amazing. We have the abilities and ability to tune in, but it can take you down. I mean, literally, it can take you down and I will tell a quick story is that when I was rounding in hospitals with my white coat on going into hospital rooms, I would literally walk out feeling the feelings of people who are sick. And I was like, to my colleagues, like does anybody else feel like they’ve been completely wiped out by like, the stress the trauma that I mean when I was working in the ICU or ever not being able to like walk into some of these rooms because it would just take me down. And that was just my normal.

So I’m gonna, I’m just gonna kind of go into some of these questions and we’re gonna we’ll have a dialogue about it. So the questionnaire, which again, can be found on your website is, are you overly sensitive, shy, or introverted? So there are 20 questions, right? And you don’t have to answer yes to all of them. But if you score somewhere between 15 and 11, you definitely are an empath. You score less than that you have empathic things, but across the board, one of the most important things that I’ve learned is that even you know, again, with this questionnaire is that empathic women, it’s really important because we gravitate toward being the caregiver, being actually you know, more of a codependent that we burn out, we burn out so again, protecting ourselves so again, like overly shy or introverted, yes, I’ve been introverted and I felt bad about that. But that’s just part of who you know who I am. Do overwhelm or cry easily.

Do arguments or yelling make you ill do not feel like you fit in? Are you overstimulated? Now? Here’s kind of the interesting physiology, we’re going to go. Are you overstimulated by noise smells are one of the questions is nonstop, talkers, chemical jokes, chemical sensitivity. So it’s funny, and I’m going to ask you this, is that we see chemical sensitivity, right? In our practices, and everybody is, so physiologically, and so as I when we talked about phase 2.5, I’m like, well, let’s get the bile flowing. Let’s get that point. But in your practice, do you see a correlation between women who are the caregivers who are, you know, been put themselves second? And then you see these symptoms? And then you’re, you’re helping to change their physiology. But there are still having symptoms? Do you see that in your practice?


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, I mean, there’s so many, so many other areas that have to be considered as well, like, just, I think the main point, Kelly is, is that if you’re an empath, then you have a speaker system that’s amplified, right. And so or you have receptors that are amplified. And because in today’s day and age, there are so many triggers or stimuli that would amplify that would just at least hit the receptors, let alone if they’re that much more amplified. So the answer is yes.

But with the idea that there are so many different variables and stimuli to have to process daily. And when you combine that with having the propensity to be much more impacted by that, and it’s amplified, then that creates the difficulty of moving the needle because you’re doing all these great supplements, you’re doing testing, you’re understanding your genetics, but you’re missing the glue, that could make the difference between actually feeling a lot better. And that’s what you can talk about now.

So as far as may be going into the questionnaire, like, you have the questionnaire, and again, I’ll post for the listeners on my website, the name and the link to be able to get to that, but so, so Okay, so that you were working with a colleague who kind of put it on your radar, and you were like, no way, but then you delve more into it and saw that there’s this questionnaire, and you did exemplify the characteristics of being an empath. So then what like, what what was your next what happened, then?


Dr. Kelly Halderman: Sure. So then, so then, I started to think about my life, and I started to think about some of the things that am past due to suppress all the energy coming at them, right. And so for some people, it’s food, it’s shopping, sex, you know, any sort of substances because that will turn off that that emotional that we feel and I think to myself, how many people have problems losing weight? Well, it could be because they’re putting that on and Judith Orlov will say, this doctor or little sick, they put it on as padding, to try and like protect themselves. And I’m like, you’re never going to be able to get rid of you know, that weight.

Or let’s say you’re and this actually happens with a lot of empathic males with addiction is that they’ve been trained because of our society to suppress that that sensitive side, oh, you can’t be sensitive, you know, man up. So then what they do is that they, they, they turn to substances so that Dr. Judith talks about how many people in her practice are empaths that are actually addicted to substances because they’re, they can’t, they can’t manage like they can’t manage. I will be just completely honest with you.

And I told you this job we were talking about this. I cannot go to a social event without having a couple of drinks because It’s completely overwhelming to me. So I have learned that in and now that I’m aware of this, I’m like, wow, I need to I can’t use alcohol to block myself, I need to use positive practices, which I’ve implemented, which have helped me be a better mom, a better clinician, a better everything, we’ll get into those. But really, it’s just looking at how we cope. And why we cope. Why are we doing some of these things that we’re doing? My adrenals were flatlined. I mean, like, we’re flatline. And I feel like because I never was taught the strategies to, to optimize myself again. And I think that probably relates to so many of your listeners, like, they’re burnt out, they’re totally burnt out. But like, let’s say, let’s say you live with an energy vampire.

Let’s say you live in a stressful situation because that’s one of the questionnaires does arguments or do you know, conflict? Does that drain you, because that just keeps happening to me in my life is that if I don’t, if I don’t protect my energy, if I don’t protect and be around in an environment, or just simply sit down and think about what situations make your adrenal fatigue worse, what situations you know, instead of like, what supplement Am I you know, what, what did I eat? What are you? Literally, are you around someone who is draining your, your, your physical energy is, is that somewhat, you know, I know, I don’t really like that term energy vampire, but we all know one? And some of us are super sensitive than some other people are not sensitive at all.

And that’s fine. Like, I know, a billion people who are not sensitive whatsoever. So again, like take an inventory of like, how you feel. So that’s where it started. For me, Joel’s like, okay, in my life, like, where was I? When was this client fatigue hitting me like, boom? Well, it was actually after some emotional conflict, you know, emotional conflict, I felt like I was just taking it on. And of course, like, I was just tired and stuff, and I actually have a son, my middle son is actually what I’ve identified as an empath.

He takes on the energy of anybody who’s around him. And so it’s like, it’s very important for me then as a mother, to make sure like, he’s just, you know, you think like, Why are you so upset or anything? Well, then if you dig into it, you know, so again, I’m practicing this or just even having a conversation or anything with your children, or better to identify that, you know, is really important.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, you know, and what I think about one of them we were we first met was such a fortuitous seminar, I had no anticipation of having lifelong friends and lessons from that particular seminar. But remember, Patrick Porter was there, and with the brain tap, which we both love, and one of the things that stuck with me with what he said, was, if you look at the Vietnam vets or even just any PTSD soldier that’s been overseas, and then they come back to life, that’s like a drop in the bucket to how frenetic the life was in a war and the constant stress. And so what they would do is because their body in, in a, in a, in a weird way, becomes, I want so much say addicted, but tolerant to those brain chemicals that are in a fight or flight chemicals.

And there’s such a disparity between how much they were pumping for so long, and how the cells and the receptors and the physiology mold to that too now when they’re in normal life, they can’t cope with such a big drastic change. And then, unfortunately, so sadly, there are suicides and then there’s recipes, rates of increasing and independency and drugs. And when you’re telling me about the just when you’re talking about the potential to be an empath, where that’s where these coping mechanisms that are healthy, when you have so many stimuli, that you’re processing that is amplified, that are multi-focused, and you want to you have a discrepancy between that and how that physiologically is impacting your body.

You need to fill in that gap with ruinous behaviors potentially and that could be addictive behaviors, you know, pornography, that can be sharp, anything that you put, you know a Holic to write like, is probably one of those things that is a good sign that you have physiology logical and balance between how much you’ve processed in the past and having to titrate down like any person coming off of a drug needs to do and it’s going to be painful it to a certain extent, but it starts with awareness for sure. Because who knows, who even thinks about this term, let alone that it’s them, and then the domino effect that it has. And ultimately, we’re talking about exhausted and burnt-out individuals that don’t handle stress.

Well, I’m the same way if I’m an introvert, I go to a party and I would rather just sort of be, you know, off to the side and not talking to anyone and they’re like, Okay, it’s time to go and it’s only been an hour, you know, and stuff like that. So, so Okay, so then from there, so you raise the awareness. As far as what makes someone more likely Kelly is their genetic susceptibilities? What’s that? Why would someone be an introvert? Well, I mean, not an introvert a, an empath.


Dr. Kelly Halderman: Yeah. So what makes it worse is I number one, not being aware of it. And what we just talked about using all these extraneous things to try and blunt, it actually backfires. And you end up sick, the body doesn’t lie, the body keeps score, right. So I mean, that’s kind of number one. Number two is blood sugar imbalances. And this is from the work of Dr. Judith Orloff. These are this is studies. I mean, so when I’m rattling these offices, and just my observation, so blood sugar imbalances, how important it is, in how sensitive empaths are to any sort of undulation in blood sugar, and you know, you’ve done amazing education and work on this Dr. Joel, listen to different podcasts for all that information, and then sleep. So if you’re not, if you’re not taking care of your sleep, you’re more susceptible.

If you have poor time management, if you know you’re all over the place because as empaths we tend to like to, we tend to gravitate toward multitasking, but actually do better when things are just methodical like what a one by one, I know that when, you know, when I was racing around, in as a medical doctor in the emergency room, I’m like, Oh my gosh, you know, I like one thing at a time. So that really wasn’t where I fit in the best nature. If you’re not getting out in nature if you’re not grounding yourself, you know if you’re, if you’re not taking the time to just get off your phone. You know, like, I’m kind of preaching to myself at this point. That’s really, really important. A setting clear boundaries with people, which is very uncomfortable for me, I’d rather be like, Yes, I can do everything. I’m learning to practice.

If you suck at setting, setting boundaries with people practice, just practice, you’re worth it, you’re worth just setting some boundaries, and saying no, no, is a complete sentence. You don’t have to, you don’t have to say anything more, you just say no, you know, like, I think these are important things for, for, especially for adrenal burnout, right? I mean, we’re, we’re just running on empty, and then breathing, meditation, little kind of, you know, breathing exercises is important. What I thought is really interesting was that empaths can actually wash off some of that burden, that emotional burden by getting into the water. I am a bath person, like, I am like, get me out, I need to call them like, bath me or give me an ocean.

How many of us crave that. And that can because we’re empaths or, you know, again, it’s not like I ever had an impact, or I’m not, you know, it’s not black and white. It’s like, I think we should all just kind of learn these skills, but and then drinking water. So those are all the things that can really take you down and make you susceptible or bring you back like nature and breathing and all these things which are important for everyone. And specifically, Judith Orlov says lavender oil on the third eye. I’m just I’m a fan of lavender oil. I think it’s quite medicinal. So those are kind of some of the strategies.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, no, those are great. Just, you know, positive practice blood sugar and balance. And I think what you’re saying is when it’s not staying stable, you’re much more likely to have those highs and those lows and have less discipline for boundaries and so forth. I would also elaborate on the fact that when a circadian rhythm is off, you’re going to be more susceptible to the tendencies of being empathic, which also falls into sleep. disorganized is huge. I think that going about your business in an organized way and having a to-do list and, you know, I was listening to Dr. Bob Miller’s lecture the other day and when he looks at you can talk about the genetic predisposition with the gene snip there.

He says that a lot of people have those potentials, he’ll tell them that, hey, listen, this is what you have you have more of a potential to be an empath and, and not get into an hour conversation like we are. But he’ll tell them like, perhaps people sense this in you and potentially take advantage of you or lean on you. And you’re you have to be aware that you have this potential. And it’s okay to say no because ultimately, it’s the doctor’s orders, it’s a prescription for just like you would take something to help with high blood pressure or low blood pressure, saying no, and knowing your boundaries are really, really key for sure. I think that’s, that’s important. Knowing, knowing like, and that’s a problem to Kelly when you have all of this chaos going on, it will jumble up that front part of the brain. And that’s where you don’t have that sequential planning. step one, step two, step three, and then you don’t have even the motivation or the goals, or what you want to accomplish in life, because I’ll ask people like, hey, like, if we were to fix this, and you were to be feeling better, what would you do? Like, what’s your bucket list of things you’d want to do?

And they’re like, I don’t even know. And like, well, that’s unacceptable. Like, no, I’m not mad at you. But it’s part of your, your therapy, like when functional neurology, what they can’t do is part of the treatment protocol, right? Like, if you can’t do balance, you have to work on your balance. If you can’t follow like pursuits or stockades, you got to follow the pursuits or case, if you can organize your brain and sequential steps, you got to do that. So I would even put there as well, that that’s a perfect storm of it just becomes a vicious cycle, right? Because if you have all these things happening, that is you’re not aware of, and that are being impacted by the first domino effect. And then those next dominoes, knockdown. Those next dominoes knocked down the first domino, and then it becomes this domino effect. Would you agree to that?


Dr. Kelly Halderman: I would totally agree. Totally. Yeah. And I love that what Dr. Bob said about, you know, the susceptibility and Joel and I both share heterozygosity in the O XTR. And it actually surprised me because I’ve met a sexual person. And you see, it’s almost like some of the Doctor Orlik says, some empaths they look like they have a sign on their, their head that says, tell me everything, like, just tell me, like I barely knew john I was like, just as a great aura, just as great, you know, natural like you.

So for him not to be you know, homozygous, you know, empathy, again, genetic susceptibility it’s not I’m, you know, I would expect that I would be more of a to and then I’ve seen people with this genetic snip where they’re there, they’re two they have both of the snips on, but yet they’re icy, like, they’re doubly icy. So, uh, you noticed it is important to again, look at our genetics and just see your predispositions.

But again, if you’re someone who people feel like they meet you on the street corner, and they can tell you your life story, you might be you just might be they might feel that like you’re open and that you’re receptive. But again, we just have to learn some practices to help her will bat in directed in a good way.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, I mean, so just to pick up from where you were letting off. So the ALEKS t r is a gene snip that if it’s mutated, it’s one parent that’s called heterozygous. And that’s gonna have more of a potential to amplify the signals that are coming in. And but you know, what it makes me think about Kelly is, you know, when we think about the kinetics of genes, meaning how fast or slow those genes work, and what makes it so difficult is some gene snips are upregulated, and some are downregulated, which now throws a lot of loops into Okay, is this working too fast? Or is this working too slow? But we usually say, well, it’s not as bad because it’s a one, only one parent gave it to you.

And really, it’s worse when it’s a two, I think we can use the ALEKS tr personally as a testament that it does, like being a little pregnant and being a lot pregnant as being pregnant, right? Whether you’re pregnant or a lot of pregnant, you’re pregnant. So if you have ones in other locations, don’t necessarily think that it’s bad it’s not as bad a thing it can really express even if it’s not a to, and then most importantly, like we were talking about before we started this It’s the environmental gene snips that make even meaning a gene snip is when the example I always use Kelly is just the credit card processing machine, the old style ones, you put the card in, you swipe it out, and now you have a copy.

And I just would come up with if you have one gene snip, it’s like for every 10 swipes, eight swipes are good, you know, and two are not good. So now you don’t have a sale in your store because you didn’t write. But if you have two snips, it’s maybe four or five. And that’s not a great example in terms of that’s exactly how it works. But it does show you that well now for every 10 swipes, if I have two copies, only the card goes in sideways, it doesn’t get read properly. And now I only have four or five. But the whole point is is that the perfect storm is not only that but the door’s locked and people can’t get in, people forgot their credit card in the first place. And the analogy for that would be the epigenetic overlapping variables that you work in a job where you’re most people have employment in the service-related industry and the health-related industry.

I remember literally telling myself when I came home, at the end of the day having a shower and washing it off, I need to wash it off, right? Because it’s too overstimulating for me. So So epigenetic, perfect storms are not only having the potentials genetically, even if it’s a one. And even if it’s a zero, and no parents had it because of the environment from all the stimuli, your jobs, your post-traumatic stressors. So many things. So what have you found in terms of what are some of the major epigenetic overlapping perfect storms?


Dr. Kelly Halderman: Oh, well, I’m definitely, I think, kind of to go back one, and then I’ll come back to the question is that we must look at our genetic susceptibilities. It is absolutely imperative to get your body physiologically running the best it can. And I think that’s why I’ve had so much success with my health, and overall, just gaining you know so much is that I optimize my metabolism, I optimize my detox, I optimize all that. And then it was like, and here’s what’s leftover, you know, and I’m constantly doing that sound like a one and done, right. I know, my genetic susceptibilities. I know, and that was just priceless. Joel has helped me optimize my genetics as well.

So you know, that’s a piece, right? But I’m not saying like, jump over all that, you know, don’t detox yourself. And, you know, don’t pay attention to your MTHFR. Like, I’m not saying that at all, but I’m saying like, do that. And at the same time, like implement this in implement in, you know, the epigenetic factors, which play a role in everything that you know, there’s just, it’s just foundational. So again, we talked about sleep optimization. We talked about, we actually didn’t talk about but exercise movement of the body, I mean, dopamine stimulation really getting, you know, your body movement going can really help protect you. Whether you’re an empath or not, right.

So these are just, they’re kind of, they play over over everyone and everything. So, and we talked about, you know, boundary setting, meditation, quiet time, I always have felt really guilty about needing quiet time and really feel guilty about coming home at the end of the day, seeing so many patients, and just feeling it all and going like wow, this is a lot when there are people that’s not typical, right. And that’s, that’s not but I think, again, I think we’re speaking to a group here with Adrenal Fatigue is gonna be like, yes, like I totally get that so there’s an exercise where if you feel the negative energy you just say Return to Sender that’s been really actually very helpful, very easy to do. But just like I’ve started to feel this like out of you know, I’ve just returned to sender take that energy back.

There’s a practice of the Golden shield bubble exercise that sounds a little hokey, but really you know, just set your intention to you know, keep your positive energy and you know, not take on you can listen you can be there for you know people but like not take it on personally that’s kind of like that the difference. Again, I think a beach diet we talked about blood sugar, really really making sure that you’re optimizing that and again, Joe you’re like the go-to doctor I, you know if I have anything issues like with that or questions with that, but that’s kind of like in a nutshell, what I’m to answer your question about the epigenetics.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, no, that’s great. So, I’m just gonna kind of paraphrase what you said as well, and put my spin on that. So I agree with you. I think that everyone should have a function genomic assessment, just to get an idea what your major hiccups are challenges could be raw, like from the raw data alone, not from epigenetic stuff, just like, hey, there’s bipolar runs in the family, or auto immunities on the family or cardiovascular challenges run in the family, awkward depression, I want to know that.

But you’re right. Like, I think foundationally I always tell people less is more like if we can pay your expenses if we can help with good absorption of nutrients and good utilization of nutrients, and we can reduce inflammation and we can reset your circadian rhythm. And we can put good mine You know, thoughts in your body and work that front part of the brain and plan and organize, then you’re going to have a lot of residual income that you wouldn’t necessarily have had. And you will then be that much more disciplined about decisions. And I think, I don’t know what the research is on this.

But you probably know as well as there is research that the more fatigued you are, the less brainpower you have for a disciplinary procedure, no disciplinary thoughts. And and and so that’s the same thing. Like the more you pay your foundational bills, in terms of blood sugar, balance, good, healthy nutrients, absorbing them. You know, one of the big ones is they show multitasking and is actually less productive. Because if you can do one thing and cross it off your list, and then do the next thing and cross it off your list, you’re spreading yourself way too thin, and your bandwidth is being exceeded. And you are not addressing the foundational components, which means that there’s a demand and supply problem in your body. You don’t have that extra reserve to be to help your propensity to be an empath for sure.

So I just was would want to echo that with you for sure as well. And then as far as you said, with the hygiene like the blood sugar hygiene, the sleep hygiene, the activity that’s the other thing I was gonna mention epigenetically is we look at all the excited Tori neural transmitters, right so glutamate histamines, adrenaline’s, you know, dopamine, all of these excited Tori neural transmitters are, are typically going to be based on all of those demand and supply problems being exceeded, are going to be released at a higher amount to make up for the lack of energy.

So now you’re just overstimulated, and it’s playing into your propensity to be an empath maybe talked a little bit about that, Kelly in terms of how those excited Tori neural transmitters kind of overlap with all of this, or what you see with your own personal health, and how stress and adrenaline can really muck up the waters and all of this, right?


Dr. Kelly Halderman: Absolutely. So if you’re, if you’re not optimized, if you don’t really know, or you’re, maybe you do know, but you’re just not optimizing your genetics, let’s just take, for example, the glutamates. Right, a lot of the people that I see, who have optimized all those hygiene factors, right, like all that, and they’re really doing well is that they’re not getting, they’re not getting at that they’re not getting at the crux of that. So it really, it’s, it’s hard for them to then if they’re not optimizing the glutamates that they’re still running on, you know, they’re not often I would say we’re not optimizing like the empathic part of them. So their energy still likes going out to all people, their boundaries, you know, they’re like the Yes, mom, and they’re doing a million different things.

That then actually, you know, they’re living on those glutamates. So they’re like, they need those glutamates. But you’re just burning your candle at both ends, right? So when I try and use glutamine scavenger for professional help products are really, they’ve kind of the crash because they were using that as fuel. So, I mean, I think that’s people using caffeine and sugar and things. It’s like if you don’t get that you feel horrible. Now, let’s try it. Let’s, let’s turn around. Let’s say you learn to optimize those all those high, those empathic, hygienic factors. I like that, you know, you’re better at managing all the above. Maybe then you don’t need to be relying on the glutamate to stay awake, stay focused, and it’s really pathologically and you don’t have to rely on the caffeine to stay awake and stay focused and, and the sugar.

It’s just now that your body is more it’s not being robbed of you know all of that. And that’s where it’s like, I really want to emphasize it’s like, there’s got to be people out there listening to this who lived there like I do my best on sleep, I do my best on a diet, I exercise, I do that, but I come home and a crash. Here’s what I want to say to you. How about the relationship hygiene, but we just check that out, make sure that’s not something because it’s so frustrating because I’m still there with you.

It’s like, I’m doing everything right. You know, and I’m making gains as you know, not knowing about my impact, I made tons of gains, but, but really having this piece and recognizing that and then not again, as you said about the exciting Tory neurotransmitters and things. I was just, I mean, I had eye twitches. But I mean, that’s what I had to rely upon, you know, is that but now I’ve just done a recent new Dutch test and oh test the whole shebang. And I’m doing much better biochemically. And you can’t sustain people you can’t sustain on using all those notes, you’re going to crash even more.


Dr. Joel Rosen: So yeah, that’s a great point. And that kind of talks about the disparity between all the stimuli that your body’s been used to, to processing and then all of a sudden you have this drastic fall off, and you don’t know what to do with it. And then when we say glutamate like people think about MSG, but anything that’s ultimately artificial, like I was I’m not actually I haven’t had any alcohol for probably a couple months now. But I find that when I was doing those hard, seltzers, right, because they’re all filled with glutamate, artificial sweeteners, it’s kind of a double whammy, you have a depressing feeling.

But yes, you’re also anxious as well. So so anything artificial, and there is also showing if you’re not getting good organic foods, those glyphosates can really impact your glutamate lowering bacteria, and create even more problems. And that’s why you love those foods, right? Because they’re meant to be addictive and packaged, and so forth. So I love the term empathic hygiene, or empathic, hygenic factors, that’s, that’s a term that you can, you can just kind of run with, um, there’s something else I was gonna say in there as well with, with the fact that, yes, so. So one of the tools that I would recommend someone to do is, for example, like when someone gets this is what drives me crazy when someone gets put on, say, a thyroid med.

And that’s helpful, don’t get me wrong, it could be helpful as a quick stopgap, right to be able to get upstream and work on what’s really impacting the body, address that and then take that away. Unfortunately, that’s not the mo is See you later. And we’ll fill this for the rest of your life. Right? But the problem is, as that person from a functional medicine perspective, gets better, and the reasons why they had to be on it, put on it in the first place, improve, they haven’t commencer and their dosing strategy with their improvements, and now they feel over ramped up. And I’m not licensed as a natural provider to take them off things, but I say to them, hey, you need to talk to your doctor and you need to be aware like if I was your brother, you need to tell them like hey, I’m feeling better now. I don’t need this.

But I think the same thing happens with commence aerating our stress load, meaning like if you have so many variables that you have to process and you’re doing these strategies, you’re stabilizing your blood sugar, you’re getting a good circadian rhythm, you’re saying no, you’re more organized, you really are your breathing is key like that breathing, slowing down the breathing, but also all of that will work very effectively to lower the number of stimuli that you have to process where you feel the need to make up for it with ruinous behaviors.

Number one and then the other thing I would say is a mental activity, right? Doing something creative, doing something physical that’s going to use up a lot of those excitatory neurotransmitters to and when we put COVID and the news and the media and restrictions and the not moving. It breeds a perfect storm of really making this empathic thing, a major hurdle with people that are exhausted and burnt out.


Dr. Kelly Halderman: 100% preach that is as spot-on is totally spot on. I knew this conversation would be so enlightening for me. I’m like, guess what, I’m like you’re gonna end up teaching me more.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Oh, I mean, I was worried cuz I was I wasn’t I didn’t listen to the entire book. But you know, I have a background in psychology and unfortunately with my own health challenges and quirks for sure, so Okay, so as far as what you do, Kelly in terms of how do you now integrate this information into your nutraceutical planning or your one on one coaching? Or just what you do with you, with what you’re involved with? How do you incorporate this now for what you do?


Dr. Kelly Halderman: Sure. So the first step, again, is, I believe is doing the assessment. So do this assessment, see where you fall? And then the second step is forgiveness or grace for yourself, just you are, who you are. And a lot of these things that people think are weird, like, why can’t you be in a crowd? Why does the crowd drain you? Why can’t you be you know, around people who are negative and just not care? You know, I mean, like, sorry, that’s just not you. That’s not me. That’s not us. So just forgive it and just who you are, own who you are, you’re beautiful, you’re wonderful.

You know, like some of the things where I started by saying, like, I wasn’t there, it wasn’t natural for me to be a mother because I feel like it tastes a lot of energy to be a mother in the first place, and then to take on all the energy of other people. But so again, I recognize that and so now, I’m, I’m having people take assessments, especially the people who I’m like, wow, you have really done everything physiologically for your but I don’t ever skip over emotional health. I’ll tie that right now. But I’m just thinking of these people who it’s like, they’ve done everything, but guess what, they’re married to a narcissist. They come home every night. And that narcissist will take them down energetically, and they’re frustrated cuz they’re like, what I can’t lose weight. I’m like, of course, you can’t lose weight, you’re trying to protect yourself from these people. Or maybe your best friend is energy-draining anyway.

So that’s what I’ll do is I’ll just a recognition right? And then I’ll walk then they’ll have this like, oh, a sigh of relief, like okay, now what do I do? Alright, so now we’re going to do so what I have done is I started to really respect these empathic fitness factors you call them right? So I’m really trying to do these breathing exercises my key is at any time I have to wait for anything so like I was on the phone with Verizon and I’m like, oh, I’m waiting. I’ll start to do some box reading I’ll start to do you know I’m waiting in line you know at Target I’ll start to do these you know, these briefings with anything is better than nothing guys, any sort of mindful breathing I’m more diligent about getting into water after especially after I’ve been slimed you know, with really like heavy energy. Optimizing sleep has always been on my plate, I will try some of these strategies in that book, which is called essential tools for empaths by Judith Orlov, if you don’t do the Return to Sender at beyond just you building in these things for myself, my clients that I believe that this is a problem for, for them.

But again, I feel like organically when someone recognizes that, that they are this even like with Joel, I know like, you and I are on the same page, like we recognize this. And we’ve always done things to help ourselves. So I think people really realize what works for them. But I think they need to be told because we’re caring women are caregivers and men can be an empath, too, but women are just these caregivers, you know codependent and then it leads to burnout, you need to recoup you know, you need to like re-learn, again, no set boundaries, these are all very healthy.

Because if you’re sick, and on the couch, and don’t feel like you’re not you know, you’re not your best self. So you’re not helping anyone. And that’s what we want to do as empaths we really want to help people and so my last point is that I may have made it sound like being empathic is not a gift, but I do believe it really is, you know, I really do believe it is it’s just you have to learn to it’s just like with any gift, right? You just really have to learn how to use it the most wisely.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, it’s a superpower. Excuse me one second, so sorry.  That’s the luxury of having your own office now without a front office person. They knock on the door. But what I was gonna say there is and I will put that out. What I was gonna say is, there is a question on the questionnaire recently that I took I it’s those different personality styles. What’s that called? enneagram.

It was it was Yes. What’s it called again?


Dr. Kelly Halderman: enneagram enneagram.


Dr. Joel Rosen: So I took that, and I learned a lot about myself in that in those answers, Kelly, and it was an aha moment and it was like less than a month ago. I took that And I think empaths have that, that propensity of putting themselves second, right, and doing what they can for other people at the expense of themselves, and they cut their nose off to spite their faces. It was helpful for me for that.

Because that’s where like, Well, why am I saying, Why am I like saying no to myself, like, I’m not having integrity with myself, and that makes me less helpful for them. You know, and so I think that’s a huge, huge gift. The other thing I would say is, as well, as earlier, we talked about when Bob Miller says that people can sense the sharks can sense that in you, right? And that’s where I’d be interested to know. Like, if there was like, add three or four or five more questions in that questionnaire and see, like, sift out? Do they tend to gravitate towards Narcissus?


Dr. Kelly Halderman: There are many questions to all and you’re right, one of those is can they sniff you out? Do people just gravitate? Right, especially the ones who really are going to take advantage of you? Uh, sadly, but yeah. 100%


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, it’s interesting. So as far as any specific formulations, because I’m always loving to talk to you about that. Any specific formulations professional health products have that would be again, I’m not for supplements as a magic wand. But anything in terms of dialing down the amplification or allowing you just to sort of take time to smell the roses? What have you found to your trick bag of tricks there?


Dr. Kelly Halderman: Sure. So three things come to mind really, really simple. And I totally agree with you, we cannot supplement ourselves to help we I mean, you know, without covering all your other bases, right? You just can’t take a handful of pills and be magically better like nine times out of 10 at least. So number one, our new product called quiet calm. It is calming it has a branded ingredient in it called real Laura Laura is a mixture of Magnolia bark and philodendron and it has been researched clinically to help the stress response quiet calm is one of my new best friends like we go everywhere together mean quite calm. It also has some other medicinal herbs in there that is really calming to the nervous system.

And then the other is just magnesium right magnesium out 75% of the population is deficient magnesium, get a really good form. Take some Epsom salt baths if you can topical magnesium, you know a lot of different forms. We have professional health products using Ms. Bizz glycinate. The studies show that when you take it from Albion, it actually gets absorbed, which is very helpful. And then you know what my new one is, is a sunflower. We have a product sunflower, it’s PCP epi.

So postural Coleen, postural, not the tall and ethanolamine and all that stuff, because it has actually shown to be really helpful for cell membranes so physiologically, and it can help brain protection and really help with neurological things. So those are kind of like the three that come to mind. Of course, we have all the glutamate scavengers and things like that. and a whole plethora of products but really quite calm.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Oh, that’s just what’s good. Yeah, I like that idea. Sometimes I’ll have people that will just message me that I don’t know them from Adam. It’s like, Can you recommend something was like no, I can’t but if I were to I typically had gone with those bioflavonoids to sort of ramp down that whole escalating, ever-escalating neural transmitters, inflammatory cytokines, but I do like the concept of, you know, if you need something right away, and you can get something that’s calming, what was the name of the new one that you have the neuro calm?


Dr. Kelly Halderman: Is that what it’s called? Or it’s quiet, calm, Qu ICA all so yeah, that and just your standard magnesium. And again, these are this is not I’m not like suggesting again, someone goes and take this talk to your doctor, these are a doctor you know, only products, so you have to go through your doctor. But you know, just really has the studies to back everything that I’m saying, you know,


Dr. Joel Rosen: yeah, the link to that in the show notes and sort of my website. So, so as far awesome stuff. I guess, I usually ask this question, but I’ll make it a little more niche to what we talked about today. I usually ask, Hey, if you would have known what you know, now back then, as it related to your fatigue. If you would have known what you knew back then as it relates to your empathic, double-edged sword. What would you have done differently, do you think?


Dr. Kelly Halderman: Oh, I definitely would have not felt guilty about what my inner intuition was saying. My inner intuition was saying you can’t be You around this sort of energy are you you know, you need to set better boundaries, I wouldn’t have felt guilty about it, I would have been like, I am my best self. When I set these boundaries that I intuitively know. And I’ll tell you what I didn’t, I didn’t listen to my intuition at all. And I ended up bedridden. And I think that was one of the major problems is, you know, is not respecting that. And again, it took a lot of years to get back to where I am because I optimize genetics, I optimize all the lifestyle factors. And then this last piece with respecting this has been life-changing.


Dr. Joel Rosen: That’s a great, great answer. I love that. That’s right. I always say like, it’s you’re listening to your little angel, you know, like, you have to listen to your little angel, if you have a thought that I shouldn’t be doing this, or I know this is gonna not work out well, or I forgot to check. Now in my case, it’s not always good when you think you left the garage door open every single time you left the house. But that’s not so much a little angel. That’s just your neurosis coming through. But no, I would say though, if you listen to your little angel, more often than not, you’re going to be congruent with that empath. propensity, that’s an awesome answer. So where do we learn more about what you do and find out about you, Kelly,


Dr. Kelly Halderman: so I’m on Instagram, if you type in my name, I’m on Facebook. I have a big following on Facebook. I have Twitter, I have a website, Dr. Kelly It’s under construction right now. So taking a little longer than I thought, but I like to put all kinds of resources that I find helpful there. And then I honestly I’m gonna, I’m going to throw this out there, Joel lives, I think we should talk about the enneagram I really think we should come back and do that.

Because it was you and I are the same. It was so helpful. It feels kind of the same. You know, playing Phil, this is the empathic and people can learn about who they are. And, again, that little angel that may mean more to them when they figure that out.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, for sure. We’ll do Part Four, for sure. I definitely will. We’ll put that up. We’ll put that I’m writing it down right now.


Dr. Kelly Halderman: So you don’t want me to back up. But I just thought,


Dr. Joel Rosen: Oh, that’s great. That’s great. I think it’s good. I mean, I don’t know enough about it, except that I took the test. But I think we could talk about what it means and being able to and I love the way that the new health model is headed towards is having all these other, I guess the intangible emphasis on how we live our life every day, and our own tendencies and behaviors and quirks and to love them and not judge them and have them work for you.

And it’s not being it’s being selfish not it’s being I think it’s being selfish to be unselfish, right, you know, and if you’re going to be more into yourself or be aware of yourself, ultimately, that is, being more unselfish, I guess is a bit girly. Yeah. So anyway, I appreciate your time, Kelly, and I look forward to part two, and I wish you continued success in all your endeavors as well.


Dr. Kelly Halderman: All right, thank you, Dr. Joel. Have a great day.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Thank you, Kelly.


To learn more about Dr. Kelly Halderman, click here

To take the Empathy quiz, click here



Get Adrenal Fatigue "Warrior" Toolkit

  • An easy to understand, guide on how to communicate with your doctor about your adrenal health
  • How to quickly and accurately identify your key reversible stressors
  • Quickly learn about the most important hormone tests that identify the problem
  • Easy, effective solutions to getting back your energy
  • My TOP 10 Adrenal Warrior Supplements with a complete video explanation
Scroll to Top