Dr. Joel Rosen: Hello, everyone. This is Dr. Joel Rosen. And I’m really excited to be talking to my guest Nathan Bryan, on the benefits and the ins and outs of nitric oxide. Dr. Bryan earned his undergraduate degree Bachelor’s of Science from the University of Texas of Austin, and his doctorate degree from LSU and School of Medicine and in Shreveport, where he was the recipient of the Dean’s Award for the Excellence in Research. He pursued his postdoctoral training as Kirstin Fellow at Boston University School of Medicine in the Whitaker Cardiovascular Institute. After two years of postdoctoral fellowship. In 2006, Dr. Brian was recruited to join the faculty at the University of Texas Health Center center of Houston. And in 1998, the Nobel laureate in medicine or, or physiology, Dr. Bryan has been involved in nitric oxide, nitric oxide research for the past 19 years, and has made many seminal discoveries in this field, which we’ll definitely be talking about some exciting stuff today. His many seminal discoveries have resulted in dozens of issued the US and international patents, and the product technology resulting from his discoveries and his innovation has improved patient care worldwide.
That wasn’t so easy for me to say, but thank you so much for being here today. Thank you, Joe. It’s great to be with you.
Dr. Joel Rosen: Yes. So like I said, in another interview that we had, I met you at a seminar on chronic health conditions, and I was aware of nitric oxide. But what I’d like to do, and the reason I’m so excited to talk to you is I work with clients that are exhausted and burnt out and discovered that there may be this thing called adrenal fatigue. So why don’t you tell us especially for people that don’t know the story of nitric oxide and how it’s so important in health?
Dr. Nathan Bryan: Yeah, well, thanks, Joe. I enjoy educating on nitric oxide, because I think too few people know about it, and really its effect on chronic health. And so, you know, he talked about burnout and adrenal fatigue. But, you know, nitric oxide is probably one of the most important molecules produced in the body and responsible for oxygen delivery. Now, you can make cellular energy without oxygen, and you can deliver oxygen to the cell without nitric oxide. So that’s critically important. It maintains normal blood pressure. It’s a cell-signaling molecule in the body house cells communicate with one another. Yeah, and they’re now in this interesting time of COVID. It’s really important for our immune function. It’s basically our immune cells generate nitric oxide that then kills viruses, bacteria, and really any pathogen. So what we’ve figured out over the past 20 or 30 years is that people with optimal nitric oxide production seem to be the healthiest people resistant to infection, the best athletes, normal blood pressure, and then those that can make nitric oxide no bad things happen. You but blood pressure increases you have sexual dysfunction. You have cognitive disorders, and you just have burnout your mitochondria Don’t work. And when your mitochondria can generate cellular energy, then your body has no energy to do the things that you want to do to where you can actually enjoy life.
Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, no, I mean, and you mentioned that last time as well, in terms of pretty much any cellular process are any biochemical reaction or any, any process, any signaling of the immune system is going to involve nitric oxide? Why Nathan? Is it something that’s not understood or, or talked about or emphasized why,
Dr. Nathan Bryan: although it’s still relatively new in terms of scientific and medical discoveries, this was just a molecule that was discovered in the back in the 80s. And, you know, we’re, you know, 2030 years past that, and typically, it takes an average of, you know, 17 to 20 years for new discoveries to be integrated into clinical medicine or the standard of care. But nitric oxide, you know, I think it’s, there’s still not a lot of awareness and education. On nitric oxide, I think that stems from a couple of things. Number one, there’s not a standard lab that you can pull on your patients to tell you what their nitric oxide levels are. In number two, you know, there’s never been really any innovations in nitric oxide, drug development, or drug therapy. And I think in terms of, you know, allopathic medicine, and Western medicine, those are the things that drive awareness, it’s new drug discovery, new drugs to market, commonly prescribed drugs, and then diagnostics for either to diagnose a deficiency, which then you can be correct.
So we’ve been, you know, educating on this for going on 20 years now. And I think we’re making some headway. But, you know, physicians need to understand that it’s not just important for physicians and healthcare providers, but patients and consumers need to understand nitric oxide because if people begin to understand this, and I always say, it’s important to get to do two things to optimize nitric oxide production, stop doing the things that are inhibiting nitric oxide production, and then start doing the things that have been clinically proven to restore. And so we’ll get into those details here shortly. But, you know, it’s been my life’s mission to, to bring awareness around nitric oxide, because it’s too important for people not to know. But
Dr. Joel Rosen: yeah, and you know, the title of my mission is, to tell the truth about adrenal fatigue because ultimately, there’s a lot of confusion around it. And I would say the same thing goes with a patented drug, for research, and just the awareness of how compounding it is in the body and how every aspect of the body really comes down to more of a mitochondrial based fatigue than an adrenal based fatigue. So I guess what I’m trying to say is, is Do you sometimes get, you kind of feel like why, you know, why? Why do not? Like, how is it that this is such a misunderstood phenomenon? You know, in terms of how important this is,
Dr. Nathan Bryan: yeah, well, you bring up a good point. And so you know, my philosophy and I think it’s corroborated by science, that people get sick for two reasons. And two reasons only, your body is exposed to something that it doesn’t need, or it’s missing something that it needs. And so, you know, many chronic diseases, all chronic diseases are characterized by some degree of mitochondrial dysfunction. So that’s the energy producing organelle of the cell. The other interesting thing about chronic disease is that every single human chronic disease is characterized by reduced blood flow to the affected organ. Whether it’s erectile dysfunction, or whether it’s coronary artery disease or kidney disease, there are always reduced blood flow to that particular affected tissue. And so nitric oxide is critical in that because nitric oxide is what’s responsible for delivering oxygen and nutrients to every cell in the body. But even further than that, nitric oxide is what controls and regulates mitochondrial ATP production. So without nitric oxide, you’re not getting oxygen to the cell to generate energy. And without sufficient nitric oxide, the mitochondria on efficiently generating ATP or cellular energy from that oxygen. So nitric oxide is really considered the holy grail in fixing any human chronic disease, including adrenal fatigue or mitochondrial disease. Really any chronic human disease. nitric oxide plays a role.
Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, no, really well said I know that what you have a gift for as well as making a complex subject into easily understandable soundbites, which is great. So you mentioned a little earlier, making sure that you minimize the things that deplete nitric oxide. So let’s talk about that.
Dr. Nathan Bryan: Well, there are two ways the body makes nitric oxide One is through an enzyme called nitric oxide synthase. It’s found in the lining of the blood vessel. And then the other one is through a dietary pathway, where primarily green leafy vegetables contain inorganic nitrate that then can be converted into nitric oxide in the body. So the things that disrupt in female nitric oxide production are your standard risk factors. So, you know, smoking, sedentary lifestyle, obesity, diabetes, all that shuts down microcode side production. And so you’ve got to stop doing those things and then correct some metabolic defects. And then in the other pathway, which I think people have failed to recognize, is that you know, 200 million Americans wake up every morning and use an antiseptic mouthwash. And so we now know and appreciate that a septic mouthwash disrupts nitric oxide production and kills the nitric oxide generating bacteria. We see an elevation in blood pressure, you lose the protective benefits of exercise, by using mouthwash, and acids shut down nitric oxide production. Again, over 200 million Americans are on acid at any given time. Very dangerous drugs. So you’ve got to stop doing those things. Stop using mouthwash, stop using antacids, and then start doing the things that can promote it in a well-balanced diet, including lots of green leafy vegetables, get modern physical exercise, get some sunlight, infrared sauna is very good because that can stimulate nitric oxide production. So those are some really simple kind of biohacking techniques that can you can do to stimulate nitric oxide production.
Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, I always love it too like, you know, when we do all this research, and I’m big into the genetic component, as you know, Dr. Bob Miller, and you really look at some of these pathways, but when it comes down to it, it comes down to common sense stuff, right, like eating healthy and making sure that you are active and especially the two though the two of which I think are really important, you just mentioned are the mouthwashes and the and the proton pump inhibitors or the things that kill off. What can you explain why that actually happens, like get into a little bit of the physiology let for people to understand maybe a little bit deeper. Okay, well, why would mouthwash be a problem?
Dr. Nathan Bryan: Yeah, so sure, it’s a very good point. So you know, we get benefits from the foods that we eat. And there are certain molecules in certain foods that have to be metabolized by bacteria. So you know, a lot of people are focused on the gut microbiome and generating short-chain fatty acids and being involved in this process. Well, it’s no different in the mouth. So when we foods like beets, or spinach, or regular kale, these foods are enriched in inorganic nitrate. And humans can’t metabolize this molecule. So we’re dependent upon the bacteria in and on the body to do this. And so there are these, what we call nitrate-reducing bacteria that live in the crypts of the tongue in the mouth. And then they’re responsible for metabolizing, this molecule into nitrite and nitric oxide. And so people I think, with good intentions, use mouthwash to maintain fresh breath and to maintain good oral hygiene. But what they fail to recognize is the collateral damage from doing it. So sure you’re killing the bad bacteria. But you’re killing the good bacteria. And that’s the collateral damage that people need to recognize, because it’s been shown, if you use mouthwash, you see an increase in blood pressure. There, two out of three Americans have an unsafe elevation in blood pressure. just so happens two out of three Americans are using mouthwash every single day. Nice correlation there. So you’re killing the bad bacteria. The other thing is that you know, people aren’t eating enough green leafy vegetables.
We know that the standard American diet shows that we’re only getting about 150 milligrams of nitrate per day, we need 300 to 400 milligrams. So just as most people are deficient and things like magnesium and selenium and chromium and iodine, we become a nitrate deficient society. And so it’s all of these things a poor diet, use of mouthwash. And then these proton pump inhibitors ran acids shut down this pathway as well. So when we swallow our own saliva, which is enriched in nitride, when it enters the acid environment of the stomach, then that warms nitric oxide gas. And so that nitric oxide that’s formed from swallowing our own saliva can kill things like H. pylori, the ulcer-causing bacteria, if you eat a food that may be contaminated with, you know, listeria or E Coli on these foodborne pathogens, and that nitric oxide will kill those pathogens, but you can make stomach acid, you shut down my truck oxide production you become more prone to foodborne pathogens. You get ulcers, you can break down proteins into amino acids. And just a lot of bad things happen when you can’t make stomach acid or when you intentionally inhibit stomach acid production
Dr. Joel Rosen: Right So just the simple way of explaining it is you’re getting rid of the bacteria that help to convert one form of the compound to another. And then it takes away that therapeutic benefit of producing the usable nitric oxide, as you mentioned, which is essential for basically mitochondrial health and immune health and everything that powers the cells to work properly.
Dr. Nathan Bryan: That’s exactly right.
Dr. Joel Rosen: So you mentioned also in our previous interview, I know you talked about like you had had a colleague or you were consulting with a doc who had a challenging patient who had high blood pressure, and they weren’t aware of that connection between mouthwash. Are you finding most doctors aren’t aware of that or looking at it in terms of people that have high blood pressure issues or erectile dysfunction?
Dr. Nathan Bryan: Now, there’s not a lot of awareness around it, you know, we first published on this probably in 2012. You know, it takes time to get that and here’s the thing, Jol, is you recognize people, you know, primarily primary care Doc’s or even cardiologists want to treat hypertension with antihypertensive therapeutics, things like ACE inhibitors, calcium channel antagonist, or, or independence angiotensin receptor blockers. But the former finding is, and these are statistics that have been known for many decades, and 50% of the people that are taking blood pressure-lowering medications are resistant to that therapy, meaning that they’re not getting adequate blood pressure management or control. So what we’re finding is it really provides an explanation for resistant hypertension is that hypertension is caused by oral dysbiosis, rather than a renin-angiotensin problem, or some fluid imbalance or calcium shuttling within the cell. So what we see is that if you get people off of antiseptic mouthwash, you’ll start to see a normalization of their blood pressure. And that’s a very difficult concept for cardiologists and primary care Doc’s because it goes against everything they were taught in medical school about the regulation of blood pressure. It’s a completely new paradigm. Now, but you know, we’re in this age of the microbiome and genetics, and we’re starting to understand this symbiotic relationship in the interaction with bacteria and what they’re doing for and to the human body. So it’s very clear, and we’ve published on this, and many other groups have published on it. If you take mouthwash, you see an increase in blood pressure, you lose the protective effects of exercise. And if you stop using mouthwash, and we’re finding that within four days, the bacteria microbiome repopulates, you see an increase in diversity, and you get better oral hygiene. So it’s a balance, you know, there’s number of bugs that live in the mouth, and they’re competing for limited resources. So if you feed the good guys, the good guys keep the bad guys at bay. And that’s the best way to address it.
Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, no, it’s amazing. It comes back down to that simplicity. Again, I want to ask a couple of questions, because I always want to have, these thoughts that come into my head. But I want to kind of go down that other pathway for the biohackers that listen to this, in terms of you talked about the endogenous within the field to the MLS. And you mentioned prior when we talk, the rate-limiting step is not the deficiency of arginine. So in English, what does that mean for people that read these books about or the supplements or the magazines about Hey, boosts your nitric oxide levels with arginine? Let’s get into maybe a little bit of that.
Dr. Nathan Bryan: Yeah, it’s a very good question. And you know, these products have been on the market for two decades now, shortly after the Nobel Prize was awarded, you know, the first pathway to be discovered was this conversion of arginine to nitric oxide by the enzyme nitric oxide synthase. But we’ve learned a lot about the biochemistry of enzymology of that reaction. So arginine is what we call a semi-essential amino acid, which means that you get part of it through your diet, but it’s made in dodge mostly through the partial urea cycle. And so the amount of arginine that you need to bind to the enzyme to make nitric oxide, the body already has about 20 to 40 times more than what it needs to bind the enzyme. So giving more Argentine does nothing to feel that reaction. In fact, we now know that giving high-dose arginine can actually cause more harm than good. So you can actually in Plus, you start to increase the expression of an enzyme called arginase, which then diverts Argentina away from nitric oxide production. So the point you make is that there’s never a deficiency of large. The problem with that conversion is that the enzyme that converts Argentina, nitric oxide isn’t working. So giving Argentina is like putting gas in a car with a blown-up engine. If not a fuel, the engines broke the same thing that ends up So that’s never made sense to me biochemically. But you’ve got hundreds of products out there that are loaded with arginine citrulline, antioxidants, and they’re labeled as a nitric oxide product. So the point is, is that, you know, a lot of times these products have good ingredients, like any oxidants. citrulline is good, these are amino acids, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re going to get any nitric oxide out at the other end. And so just be cautious about it. Because you can get really high dose you can get into nitrogen imbalance, you can divert it away from nitric oxide production and toward ornithine and rent disposal. Those products don’t do anything, I tell people just save your money, you get enough Arnstein from your diet and from you
Dr. Joel Rosen: Know, I’m glad you brought that up. And you know, I was just listening to a buddy of mine got to realize that a lot of those magazines are owned by supplement companies as well, right. So the other thing you mentioned earlier with the cardiologists and the family physicians is the paradigm shift. They listen, they’ve learned this stuff, they’ve had a whole methodology and an algorithm for working up their clients. But then they don’t even put any stock into these other phenomena that may be resulting in those challenges, like in this case, high blood pressure. What I wanted to do was maybe get your insight on what other problems are besides high blood pressure, which we can segue into what your recent developments are, but what other problems where the paradigm shifts need to be made by the doctors to understand that it could be resulting in this phenomena or that phenomena besides high blood pressure. What do we what are we talking about?
Dr. Nathan Bryan: Well, there’s clear symptoms and manifestations of nitric oxide deficiency. The first one is usually an increase in blood pressure, I mean that two out of three Americans have an unsafe elevation. But that’s a big market that’s in cardiovascular disease is still the number one killer of men and women worldwide. And to me, that’s simply unacceptable. Because we know what causes cardiovascular disease, a lack of nitric oxide, we know how to diagnose it. And now we know how to fix it. So cardiovascular disease should be like polio thing of the past. But yet, it’s not because we haven’t done a good enough job of educating and changing the paradigm, it needs to be done. But you know, the other thing, the first symptom that shows up is usually sexual dysfunction. So what happens is, it’s always a loss of regulation of blood flow. And so for sexual function, you’ve got to increase blood flow in both the male and female. And you do this through the production of nitric oxide to dilate the blood vessels to get the endorsement in without nitric oxide, that doesn’t happen. So that’s number one. The other thing is, you know, exercise and tolerance that people will know when they get tired walking up the steps or they can start an exercise regimen because they fatigue. Again, that’s a nitric oxide problem because there’s a loss of regulation of blood flow to the skeletal muscles, their mitochondria aren’t working, because it can make the electron transport chain becomes uncoupled. You know, vascular dimension, even neurological problems, its loss of regulation of blood flow, you can demonstrate this through SPECT scans or functional MRIs. There’s no matter what the organ system is if it’s dysfunctional. It’s always characterized by reduced blood flow. And why is that because their body can make nitric oxide you restore nitric oxide, you restore the regulation of blood flow, get oxygen nutrients to those cells and tissues? You give the body what it needs, the body heals itself. It’s a very simple concept.
Dr. Joel Rosen: It’s amazing to think how it how involved in everything that we do from a health standpoint, I mean, peripheral neuropathy, Alzheimer’s, blood flow, I know cold hands, cold feet, people are always cold, the inability to adapt to the cold surroundings, all of the above. So as far as how does So you mentioned it’s difficult to test. So how you’ve come up with a couple of strategies to do that. So so what what what are they? And how do we test to see Well, I know that I have a blood flow issue, but I want to see improvements? I want to see if I’m getting better, or I want to see how bad it is or how good it’s getting. How do we do that?
Dr. Nathan Bryan: And the first thing I always like to tell is, you know the symptoms will always tell you kind of what the problem is. So that, you know, it’s kind of a bag of tricks. So I think you get to pay attention to symptoms, and to celebrate test trip years ago that gives us an indication of total body nitric oxide availability. So if your saliva doesn’t turn this test strip bright pink, and it tells us that your body’s not making sufficient nitric oxide, and then we can work backward and try to figure it out. Where’s the problem? Is it because you have female dysfunction? Is it because your diet isn’t good? Is it because you’re using mouthwash because you’re using And acids, and then we get into those questions and then figure out exactly where the problem is and then take the steps to correct them. So no other kind of about chemical test, I tell people, it’s a good tool to have in your toolbox. But it shouldn’t be the only tool you’re using. There are some FDA cleared medical devices that really give you a readout of intrathecal function. Those are good. And I think if you’re using a combination of those functional devices, like the endo pad or the max pulse, these cool little devices, along with the biochemistry, and looking at the clinical picture, that’s really going to give you a good indication, when and if there’s a nitric oxide problem, in most of the cases, it’s always a problem. So it should be a consideration.
Dr. Joel Rosen: Right and as far as just the life cycle of nitric oxide in terms of how long it stays around, and or how absolute amounts we have at certain ages and how it declines. Can you give us a little insight on that too?
Dr. Nathan Bryan: Sure. So the in the female portion of the production of nitric oxide declines with age, so we lose about 10 to 12% per decade, by the time you’re 40, you only have about 50%, of what you had when you were younger. So that’s kind of on an average kind of population-based studies, though, we know that you know, for instance, I’m 47. But I have the biological age of a 26-year-old. And to the contrary, there are kids that are 18 2025 years old, have a biological age of, you know, a 50-year-old. So it doesn’t necessarily mean that you can follow the average. In fact, if you I don’t want to be average because the average person is overweight, unhealthy, and on many drugs. So we have to take the steps to correct that and prevent that age-related decline in nitric oxide production. We know how to do that. And then the other thing is, you know, you can compensate for that with the dietary, you know, eating, you know, green leafy vegetables, or including more nitrate nitride or in your diet. So that’s how you overcome that limitation. But we know through many years of study that on average, the older you get, the less nitric oxide you make. That’s what’s responsible for age-related disease.
Dr. Joel Rosen: Right. And you also shared with us last time your friend Zack, Dr. Zack Bush, he had an exercise video on how to boost his nitric oxide levels. So that are you a proponent of high-intensity exercises for that? Or is any exercise, okay, is there one better than the other?
Dr. Nathan Bryan: Well, the most important thing is exercise, you can get into the detail of the quality of exercise, but it’s, you need oxygen to make nitric oxide. So when you go into this high-intensity interval training, and you become hypoxic or run out of oxygen, then the enzyme that makes life for oxide doesn’t make nitric oxide because you need oxygen as a cofactor and substrate. So you know, just 20 minutes of moderate physical exercise of a brisk wall is sufficient to stimulate nitric oxide production. I think the benefits of the high-intensity interval training on the adaptive effects because brief periods of hypoxia lead to this adaptive effect and upregulation of nitric oxide production. So over time, you’re going to get a better benefit and probably more bang for your buck, for the high-intensity interval training, because you’re creating these brief periods of hypoxia that then allows for these adaptive changes.
Dr. Joel Rosen: Right, okay, great. And then I’m sorry, I’m all over the place here. Because like, I hear all these questions in my head when you’re asking me when you’re answering them. But as far as Are you aware of with breathing styles, like I know, like we teach a lot of clients that are overwhelmed and stressed how to regulate their breathing, how to make sure that they are in control. Has that been? Have there been any studies on that at all? Do you know in terms of that can also boost nitric oxide levels? Yeah,
Dr. Nathan Bryan: for sure. There are lots of published studies on that. So deep breathing, it’s really nasal breathing. So the blood vessels are lined by endothelial cells. The nasal airways are lined by epithelial cells. And so the nitric oxide synthase is actually concentrated, the highest concentration of that enzyme is actually in the airway epithelium. So when we breathe a deep breath through the nose, it causes some mechanical activation of these cells, which then stimulates nitric oxide production. So deep breathing through the nose delivers nitric oxide gas directly to the pulmonary vasculature. And that’s been shown to lower blood pressure. So you can lower blood pressure just by deep breathing exercise, there is a nitric oxide component to them. The problem is if you have endothelial dysfunction, then you have Epidemiol dysfunction because the same conditions render that enzyme dysfunctional. So if you’ve got older sick patients, you know the deep breathing I think is still good. But the effects, the nitric oxide-mediated effects are going to be minimal until you recover that nitric oxide synthase enzyme.
Dr. Joel Rosen: Gotcha. So I’m just thinking though, how can you monetize common sense stuff as getting good? Again, and exercising and eating healthy? I mean, what with that? Right? You can that’s the beauty of it.
Dr. Nathan Bryan: People don’t have to spend money to do this. This is what nature developed. And so if you said, If you give the body what it needs, and do the things that we’ve known for decades, if not centuries, it’s diet, modern physical exercise, good oral hygiene. And, you know, the body heals itself. But, you know, people I think we’re trained to want appeal, you know, take something that can an exercise mimetic for something to you know, I don’t want to change my diet, but I want something to give me the benefits of doing. And that’s just not how the human body is designed to work.
Dr. Joel Rosen: No, absolutely. I tell people, you have an imbalance between demand and supply, you know, quite simply, and I like what you say you’re, you’re, you need to minimize the things that you shouldn’t be getting. And you need to maximize the things that you should be getting, which again, kind of creates that equation of equality between demand and supply. But let’s just say hey, listen, I like the concept of biohacking. I appreciate the no mouthwash, the known proton pump inhibitors, getting good activity. Understanding arginine is not the rate-limiting step. But what can I do in terms of Is there something that I could use to boost my nitric oxide besides healthy quality foods?
Dr. Nathan Bryan: Yeah, sure. So you know, in 20 years of research, I have dozens of issued patents, we productize, a lot of these discoveries. So I have products on the market that are patented, clinically proven in randomized, placebo-controlled clinical trials. And so that if so, that gives people if you need to supplement, and your lifestyle doesn’t allow you to change your diet and get moderate physical exercise, then we have technology that does two things. Number one, if your body can’t make nitric oxide, we do it for you. But number two, and perhaps most importantly, we fix the enzyme that makes nitric oxide. So we actually improve the body’s own ability to make nitric oxide and this is a product in the form of an orally disintegrating tablet, put in your mouth, his matrix falls apart, and it basically generates 20 to 30 parts per million. And oh, guess there are some other products we have on the market that are, you know, the standardized beat powder that you can take a lot of teams are using it for athletic performance. So those are on the market. I mean, it’s Look, it’s, it’s a great product, it actually it’s the only products on the market that actually generate nitric oxide gas. I prefer not to mention them because I’m more interested in educating the public, people can find them. We’re out there. But you know, for people who are looking for biohacking techniques, and you know, if they’re in a position where they don’t, or can’t change their diet or lifestyle, or can’t even begin an exercise regimen, because they’re so micro oxide deficient. And we can get you to where you need to be through a dietary supplement or functional food.
Dr. Joel Rosen: Oh, no, I appreciate that. And I told you that, that I was gonna ask you about that as well. If I had your permission, and I if it’s okay, I’ll we’ll put those in the show notes as well. But what I do want to get into because I said hey, listen, I interviewed you before I want to hear what’s new. And you said, Well, I do have something that’s new. And it’s not enough to have all these patents and sit on your button, you know, just, you know, watch the time go by, but you’re constantly doing things, Nathan, so why don’t you tell us what you’ve just mentioned to me in terms of phase three, and what you’re looking at right now?
Dr. Nathan Bryan: Sure. So so I’m trained as a drug discovery biochemist. And so I think we were very fortunate early on, we discovered some natural product chemistry that we can bring safe products to the dietary supplement a nutritional industry that’s changed the lives of you know, countless people. But, you know, my objective from day one was to develop safe and effective therapeutics where we can actually get into, you know, the standard of care and develop this. But as you know, this takes many, many years. So the standard drug discovery takes, you know, eight to 10 years and usually hundreds of millions of dollars to take a drug from discovery all the way through, you know, phase four clinical trials and get an approved drug to market. So we’ve been working on that for a number of years. And then you know, COVID came in this provided really a unique opportunity because of this fast track and the operation works feed on the current administration.
So we’ve developed a safe and effective nitric oxide drug that we now have into phase three clinical trials. So everything we’ve to know about COVID Joe in the past 10 months, from the populations, that’s most at risk for infection to the patients that rapidly progressed to hospitalization, ventilation, and death. It all points to nitric oxide. So the patients that have the underlying comorbidities like hypertension, diabetes, kidney disease, lung disease, all that’s a symptom of nitric oxide deficiency. nitric oxide produced by our immune system actually inhibits the Coronavirus replication. So as you know, we’re exposed to viruses every single day. And some people get sick. Some people don’t haven’t been sick from a viral or bacterial infection for over 20 years. But yet we know every season or every season with the flu comes along 10s of thousands or hundreds of thousands of people are infected 10s of thousands of people die every year. And it’s no different for COVID, the susceptible population, the old, the weak, the feeble, African Americans, they’re the ones that are most susceptible. And so what we’ve done is we got an ind investigational new drug approved by the FDA, to go into clinical trials in the African American population, because African Americans have about a four times higher rate of infection, about a three times higher rate of hospitalization, and a five to six times higher day rate of death from COVID. And so as the African American population, the known health disparities for many, many decades, that renders their nitric oxide deficient, and explains the increased risk of infection, hospitalization, and death. So what we’re doing is we’ve taken African Americans that have had a positive covid test within the last 72 hours, whether they’re symptomatic or asymptomatic. And then this is a double-blind placebo-controlled study to get them active or a placebo. And then we just follow them for 30 days and look at the rates of hospitalization. We’re monitoring their oxygen levels throughout the day. And after 30 days, we’re seeing I mean, we’re, we’re seeing really remarkable results with that. So I hope to have the study completed by the end of the year, and hopefully have a new drug on the market shortly thereafter.
So this is exciting to me, because, you know, we fast track, a drug is very safe, but also a very effective drug, that there’s no drug like it on the market, it generates nitric oxide, and we’re protecting a very vulnerable population, and really addressing the health disparities of African Americans that everybody likes to talk about. But nobody’s done anything about it for the past 40 years. And I’m very proud to say that we’re accomplishing them.
Dr. Joel Rosen: No, that’s awesome. There are so many things I could ask you about that. So as far as what that’d be something that someone would I mean, obviously, everything we’ve talked about, up until now, wouldn’t be that prescriptive medication as well, part of me in terms of removing the acids in terms of getting off the proton pump inhibitors exercising, making sure they’re getting good nutrients and veggies and nitrates, part of me, but what I need to have a prescription for that, or?
Dr. Nathan Bryan: Yeah, so there’s a there’s something an FDA approved drug that will be, you know, prescribed by a physician. You know, obviously, we’re doing a covid trial, we’ve got other drug trials, ongoing for, you know, an ischemic non-occlusive coordinate disease. We’ve got some preclinical data access and clinical data and heart failure with preserved ejection fraction, pulmonary hypertension. So all these are targets that we’re developing drug applications for. The first is COVID because it’s kind of the low hanging fruit when getting rapid emergency approval for that. But you know, I suspect as, as with most drugs that, you know, like hydroxychloroquine, that’s not an antiviral drug. It’s an anti-parasite drug, but now they’re using it off label for COVID. And so I suspect that is, you know, we do our job on educating on the importance of nitric oxide and the mechanism of how this drug works. They don’t have very important off label use until we can get other nitric oxide drugs approved for specific indications.
Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, I mean, hopefully, it will be that Trojan horse that allows doctors and then no to, to just improve the quality of health of the community in general, you know, ultimately
Dr. Nathan Bryan: That’s Right.
Dr. Joel Rosen: So just, yeah, two last questions I have, because I do respect your time, and I appreciate so much that you’re taking the time to talk to me, I want to know like, do you have a stated mission statement? Like what drives you to continue to research and do this? Is there a personal story? Or is there something that you have in terms of, hey, my mission is this like, Can you share that with me?
Dr. Nathan Bryan: Yeah, you know, no, I get into science because of discovery in the medicine side of things because you want to leave a lasting legacy. I think that all of us are driven by that we want to make an impact on people’s lives and can change people’s lives. And, you know, unfortunately, very few people ever put in a position to do that. And I feel very blessed and fortunate to have made some decisions. of recent nitric oxide. And you know, that’s all I’ve done for 2025 years now. And so my mission and objective now are to create safe and effective nitric oxide technologies in every segment of the market around the world, because I’m convinced and I think the science should convince everybody how important this is in your body cannot and will not heal until you restore the production of nitric oxide. So I’m driven by the fact that you know, I’ve got a pretty good head start on people, we have patents that nobody else can, can utilize or practice. And so I know how to make nitric oxide. And so my objective has been and continues to be to bring nitric oxide safe and effective technologies to the masses.
Dr. Joel Rosen: That’s awesome. I just finishing a book called The click effect. And it talks about sort of how that perfect storm of your environment and you know, your education comes to a click moment, actually, it’s called the click moment. And I think the click moment in this instance, is it’s kind of astounding to understand why has this not been already approved, accepted, and full blown integrated into the world and, and this happens to be your specialty.
Dr. Nathan Bryan: You know, big pharma has been working on nitric oxide drugs for decades, most of them have abandoned it, because their approach was not the right approach. Putting a nitric oxide linker molecule on the apparent drug. We’ve used a different approach. You know, most drug companies apply principles of applied pharmacology, they want to one drug one target. And really, that’s not how the body the human body is designed. I operate on principles of applied physiology. So we want to understand the disease to the extent that we can fix it. And in that model, there’s no paradigm for a synthetic drug or application. So what we’ve done is basically, we understand how much nitric oxide a normal human makes in 24 hours, what goes wrong, and people that can make nitric oxide, and then our technology, whether it’s in the nutrition space, or in the approved drug, is always based on those same principles. If anybody can make nitric oxide, we do it for you. And then we fix the enzyme and improve the body’s ability to make it that’s outside the paradigm of Big Pharma in typical drug discovery. So I think that’s the reason, you know, big pharma had been successful at this years ago, you know, these drugs would be as popular as Staton based drugs. Now, so I think, you know, we’re on a 20 or 30-year runway here, the very early stages, but I predict in five to seven years, nitric oxide will be, you know, like vitamin D, and like fish oil. You know, everybody will know about it, everybody will be taking a form of it, because you can no longer ignore the health benefits of the micro toxins. And you can no longer ignore the consequences of insufficient nitric oxide.
Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, absolutely. Well said, so. So wrapping up here. We had a question that we asked in the perfect storm summit. But the question I asked with my podcast is, knowing what you know, now, if you would have known then what would you have told the younger Nathan, that you know, now, in terms of how it would have benefited you in health, or just having that 2020 vision of knowing now what you didn’t know, then what do you think that would be?
Dr. Nathan Bryan: Well, Joe, it’s a good question. And, you know, I’ve reflected back on kind of the course of my career and the journey, and you’re the one thing that I’ve recognized is how little control I had over this journey in the direction, I think God puts people in situations in our lives at certain times, to, you know, deflect us a little bit to go a path where we’re designed to go. And so, you know, like most of us were resistant, we’re, we’re steadfast in where we want to go and what we think we want to be, and then life happens and interrupt. So, you know, I probably wish that I would have, you know, listened and been less resistant to some changes in directions that I was being, I think, pushed in or encouraged early on. So I think, you know, God has a plan for all of us. And you know, I wouldn’t go back and do anything differently. Because I’m where I am today, because of the journey that we’ve all been on. I think that that holds true for everyone.
Dr. Joel Rosen: Sure, sure. No, I think I said the analogy I get on that. One is you kind of already had that lighthouse that you were aiming for in the on the ground. But you would have kind of went with the tide knowing that you were still focused on that, instead of really exerting energy to go in that direction that may have been pushing you in the wrong direction or a little further and closer kind of thing. Awesome. Well, listen, Nathan, I really appreciate you taking the time. I’m really excited to see what happens With your study in your trial, definitely be keeping my eyes posted on that. I’ll give the listeners the links to some of the information that you provided. And I just really hope that your mission comes sooner rather than later because the world needs to know about this.
Dr. Nathan Bryan: Well, Joel, thanks to people like you who, you know, give us the platform to educate and bring awareness around nitric oxide. I think we’ll certainly accomplish that mission. So thank you and keep up the good work that you did.
Dr. Joel Rosen:
Awesome. You have a great rest of your day, mate. Thank you, Joe. All right. Take care.