How I Recovered From My Adrenal Fatigue


Dr. Joel Rosen: Alright, hello, everyone and welcome back to another edition of the less stress life where we teach exhausted and burnt out adults the truth about adrenal fatigue so that they can get their health back quickly. And today, I’m joined by a past patient, Marcellus Johnson. And I’m really excited because he’s got a great story. In fact, I just happened to reach out to him and dm him, I saw that he was on Facebook the other day. And I said, Hey, I haven’t talked to Marcellus in a little bit.

And I said, Hey, Marcellus, how are you doing? I’m doing great, you know? And it’s because of you and like, wow, like, that’s, that’s awesome. Hey, do you want to get on a conversation and tell people your story, because I know a lot of frustrated people? And like we just mentioned earlier, they believe they can’t get better, or they’re told that they can’t get better, or they’re just going to have to accept it and they’re frustrated. So I think Marcel is gonna tell us a great story about what he went through. And, and we can kind of go from there. So myself, thank you so much for joining us today.


Marcellus Johnson: Yeah, Dr. Rosen, thanks for having me. Yeah. My name is Marcela. So I’m 26 years old. And about two years ago, I went through a really rough ride, the ruff challenge with my health. You know, I’m fairly young, I never thought it would happen to me. But you know, I think a perfect storm was brewing, so to speak. And, yeah, I just went through one of the hardest, hardest times of my life, honestly.

And, you know, I’ve made so much tremendous progress. You know, there are some slight things I still deal with even now. But I know how to address them and mitigate them. And because of that, I’m able to live you know, normal life again. And, you know, I did two years ago, I didn’t think that was possible, and a lot of those due to Dr. Rosen. So I really, thank you, Dr. Rosen, for that.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, well, you know, I think you and I am just grateful to have the player role, small role, I’ll be it. And I told you initially, when we started the conversation, that I just a team player, and ultimately, the responsibility and the diligence, and being your own advocate comes down to you. And there’s a lot of things that you do, along with implementing the strategies that we do mindset. You know, a lot of other things that the search to get better, the desire to get better, the willingness, even the knowledge that you deserve to get better. That’s a big one because some people don’t feel that they have that. But a lot of kudos go to you.

And that’s why I want to showcase this. But I was reading through some of the notes that we initially wrote down and in terms of and you permitted me to share them in terms of having some of these adrenaline rushes at night. Insomnia, fatigue, joint pain, some of that cop coast, Costco, calm dryness, maybe some difficulty with gi disturbances. So why don’t you kind of give us an idea? Maybe if I didn’t cover it all there, like what were some of the things that you were dealing with, like two years ago before we started?


Marcellus Johnson: Yeah, so it all started in April of 2019. I started to get extraordinary blood sugar fluctuations, where I would eat and I would literally feel like I was gonna pass out. So like, hypoglycemia, I guess, but it started of nowhere. And then all these other things started trickling down, I couldn’t sleep, I would get adrenaline rushes at night. I was wired but tired. I would have this intense joint pain, you know, the costochondritis. But it was you know, it wasn’t just there is also at my, my knee, both my knees actually my right hip, which has been something that has bugged me for many years but now is a lot better.

So there’s a ton of things I really dealt with. But one thing that you actually covered, that helped tremendously was when we got went over my genetic tests. You talked about iron metabolism. So my iron metabolism based on my genetics is terrible. It’s not very good. So I did some more research, you know, you had said you should probably donate blood. So I did some more research and I looked at you know, hemochromatosis. I mean, my iron metabolism is on isn’t on that scale.

It might be slightly like that, but it’s not as bad as that. But once I started donating blood, the cost of contracts went away. And you know, I went to the doctor and they said, Oh, we don’t know what causes this. You know, my doctor at Kaiser, we don’t know what causes Just put some, some cream on it like some, some cream to numb it like some of that bio freeze or something like that, that’s the best you can do.

You know, I don’t need your blood once I felt a ton better. A lot of the inflammation in my joints went away. The second time I don’t any, but I felt like no inflammation at all. And I know one, that’s one thing that has helped tremendously, is just donating blood with the whole sleep thing. Definitely, like taking supplements to help with sleep. I know, when we went over my, my Dutch test, my melatonin was really low. So I also did some more research on that. And I also tried to actually got them I got some blue, light-blocking glasses that I wear two hours before I go to sleep. So I just think I’m sensitive to blue light. And this is something that, you know, pre-2019 wasn’t really a thing. But like I said, I think there was a perfect storm brewing and all these different things started affecting me at once. Because my body just went into overload. I think that’s what happened. And, you know, this is something I have to do now to get good sleep. And, you know, I don’t want to have to wear you know, these glasses two hours before I go to bed every night. But it’s either do I want to have a good night’s rest? Or do I want to keep dealing with, these problems of not being able to sleep? So, you know, that has helped me tremendously. And I know you had recommended, you know, your Melatonin is very low, you should probably take melatonin. So I was thinking why is my melatonin so low? While I’m here staring at my phone until you know, 11 pm every night. And then I lay in bed for you know, two, sometimes three hours and I can’t sleep and I’m like, why can’t I sleep? It’s because I’m not giving my brain a chance to produce its own melatonin. So, you know, little changes like that have helped a lot.

You know, changing my diet, getting rid of a lot of the inflammatory foods I would eat. I used to be very terribly, you know, looking back to just two years ago, and the way You see, it’s kind of amazing to see, you know, ice fast food, you know, almost once a day. So it was bad. And I know a lot of people are probably in those shoes as well. I got rid of all the processed food. You know, I pretty much every meal I cook at home with myself. So yeah, it’s you just got to be willing to make the changes and you know, not be scared of, you know, the journey that it’s going to take you on and you know, some of the changes aren’t easy, but you know, they’re worth it. If you want to be healthy and live, you know, a healthy life, you have to be willing to make those changes.


Dr. Joel Rosen: So yeah, that’s lots of insight in there. Marsalis thank, you know, number one, I think when you look at I think initially when we got started, it was on a Dutch test interpretation, right? And we look at and you know, when we identify ourselves as even though we have insomnia and fatigue, there were other things, joint pains, and you said you felt inflamed. And the adrenaline rushes, a lot of people will identify that as being adrenal fatigue, and my website and my mission is, to tell the truth about adrenal fatigue, which is ultimately there’s this deeper, lying stressor, that stressors that impact your body, and it impacts you at several different ways. So when we went through your, your Dutch test, and we see these findings where your circadian rhythm is dysregulated.

The weight, the amount of cortisol that you produce throughout the day is off, and you’re not getting a nice spike, or it’s robbing Peter to pay Paul in a sense where other hormones are low, like da ga, or testosterone, or you’re making a little bit more of the metabolite that estrogen converts into that’s inflammatory and will deplete you have Bluetooth ion, and then you see that that melatonin may below or you’re burning through a lot of B 12. You start to realize, oh, a lot is going on here. Right? And then that’s where we said, Hey, we really need to look at the genetic test because that will give us an answer as to why whereas the adrenal Dutch test is more what you know what I mean? Like in terms like how has the stress impacted your body, but and I’ve had clients get mad at me like, Well, why does it tell you the why to like, because it’s not meant to tell you the why I mean, it tells you the effect of the Y but it’s not necessarily the Y in and of itself.

And so you meant some really good things you mentioned iron oxidation, where people just don’t transport iron effectively and unfortunately, A lot of doctors are looking at it in terms of black or white, hey, you’re either hemochromatosis todich, or you’re not. And if you’re not, then you don’t need to donate blood. And you know, they throw the baby out with the bathwater, and due diligence on your part to, to investigate, you’ve mentioned and implement the strategies with an open mind. And I always tell clients, I want you to be critical, I want you to do your research, I want you to ask me questions, I want you to implement the recommendations, but at the same time, I want you to give me feedback. So we can help each other help you the most. And that requires a team effort. So a lot of good things on and then the other thing too, it is like, yeah, it may not be fun wearing the blue blocker glasses, or it may not be fun to have to go donate blood, or may not be fun to like, be aware of other circadian rhythms or not have that desirable, you know, easy to get food that may not be as healthy and make these small changes over time, it may it’s not the fun thing to do.

But when you feel so much better, it’s worth it. So I guess there’s a question in there somewhere I go, what was your biggest motivation? through all of that? I mean, it’s one thing to feel terrible the way you were, but what made you have the motivation to, like, get off from spinning the wheels and really make the changes?


Marcellus Johnson: Yeah, I mean, I’m just gonna be completely transparent. You know, in 2019, when this all started happening, I was, I was very depressed, probably the most depressed I’ve ever been in my life. And I was scared because no one in my family had ever gone through, you know, a similar health experience. You know, it was like, you know, I had older family members that developed, you know, like, cancer and heart disease, you know, things that happen, typically when people get older, but nobody young, that, you know, their health just shocked, like, out of nowhere. And, you know, it was scary. And I just, you know, realized that you know, I believe I was meant for more, and I’ve always been a very inquisitive person. So I knew that there had to be answered. There had to be, there was, no way that there wouldn’t be answered. So, you know, I started doing my research, I came across some YouTube videos that you had made. And I was like, you know, at that point, I was actually so sick, I couldn’t even work, I took off, I think six or seven weeks from work. And I was like, I either start fixing this now. Or I’m gonna, you know, like I spoke of earlier, I’m going to be putting, putting the problem in someone else’s hands, which is what you don’t want to do you want to take responsibility for your own health. And, you know, I did, and, you know, I had to, you know, obviously, pay for your services. And, you know, some people are not willing to, you know, do that, because they’re not sure what they’re gonna get, but if you know what you’re looking for, and, you know, the, you have to be willing to put yourself out there and, you know, not just go on the typical route that everybody goes through, you know, I went to my doctor, you know, they wanted to put me on antidepressants, because they just thought I was depressed. But I was like, No, I’m not depressed. There’s something wrong with me. And, you know, I, I spoke with you, I think we had her initial consultation, and you’re like, yeah, I can help you. And I was like, I’m pretty sure you can because I watched your YouTube videos. And it sounds like you know what you’re talking about. And maybe it’s just me because I’ve always been skeptical of traditional medicine, but like, you know, there are so many things that I’ve learned since I’ve met, met you and started watching some of your videos, and I’ve even listened to some of your past podcasts as well. That I just realized that a lot of your health can be taken back naturally. And it’s just up for you to be willing to do it. You know, it’s not going to be a simple process. But, or an easy process, but it’s something that anybody can do if they’re willing to, you know, go out and do it.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, those are great words of wisdom for such a young guy. For sure, you know, in terms of a lot of this stuff is common sense. And fortunately, a lot of common sense is not so common, right? Especially with our fast-paced society. The foods that we eat, we don’t realize our I don’t want to go down a soapbox, but we were just there’s a lot of ruinous lifestyles.

Things that can have us quickly get off the healthy path. So what may I ask though, you kind of brought it up in terms of we did it you did invest with me, and what were you Is there anything that you were skeptical about? For for the work that we did together in terms of like, you weren’t sure if this was the right step? Or if this was going to help you? I mean, you kind of mentioned you did your research already. Was there anything that you were skeptical about?


Marcellus Johnson: I’m gonna be honest, not Not really. And the main reason why is because I have dealt with traditional medicine, you know, with various things in the past, you know, nothing too severe. But, you know, when I went to the doctor, and they told me, they thought I was depressed when I was literally not working. And, you know, that was, that was the only thing but I had all these other things going on with me, I like told my doctor, all these symptoms, and they’re just like, yeah, nothing’s wrong. Like, if that doesn’t really raise a red flag in your own brain, something might be wrong with you. Like mentally, you know, I looked at your videos, I looked at your website, and I could genuinely see. And, you know, this is my own experience, as well, that you are genuinely trying to help people. So I appreciate that you genuinely did help me. But more than that, that you’re not you’re in it for the right reasons.

And unfortunately, I know, you’ve mentioned this, a lot of doctors a whole, like, by ball and chain, they kind of have to do with the status quo is, you know, they, some of them might want to help people, but you know, they, they have to prescribe these medicines that might not, you know, help people as much as they like, and, you know, people stay sick. And I, I just knew that whatever was going on with me was hormonal. So, you know, for me, the monetary amount was secondary to my health. Because if I can’t live a healthy life, all the money in the world isn’t going to make a difference.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Right?


Marcellus Johnson: I heard a quote once, it was like, What is it? You know, what? Or how does it go? It’s like a sick man only wants one thing to be healthy. I forgot I forget the quote. But I mean, it’s true. That’s the only thing I wanted. When I was sick, it was to be healthy.


Dr. Joel Rosen: So, right. Again, lots of words of wisdom there. I agree with you. And a lot of people feel this way when they go see the doctor, and they feel so terrible. And they’re told that there’s nothing wrong with them. That’s really frustrating. I had that myself. Everyone I work with, to one extent has it, and also that there’s no such thing as an adrenal fatigue-based problem. Or even insult to injury, you’re depressed, like, let’s get you on some medication to an eye. Again, as you said, I believe there, they are trying to help you. But it’s limited. And it’s there’s no reason that you would want to feel this terrible to either be, you know, not believed or be thought of as a symptom magnifier, or looking for attention, or you are depressed when you’re not depressed. It makes it that much more frustrating for one. And so kudos to you for not accepting that. Number two, you’re a lot of people I call it selective amnesia, where they do get forgetful of how much their health is costing them being sick, not how much is it going to require to invest? And we didn’t do like a major year-long program, we did la carte stuff, like you said, Where there’s a will there’s a way, it certainly was an investment. But I think what we’re talking about is the cost of being sick, versus the return of investment of having your health back where a lot of the things you can’t really put a number on. But maybe we can go down that road in terms of if you thought of it as an investment return of investment from going from the adrenal rushes and insomnia and the fatigue and the joint pains and the inflammation to where you feel now what would be your return of investment would you say on what you have now?


Marcellus Johnson: Oh, exponentially exponential. For me, like, obviously, at the time, it wasn’t an investment. Because I mean, as I mentioned, I wasn’t working so I really had to like scrounge you know, all the money I had, and basically had not a lot of money to do other things. But, you know, I knew what I was invested in. I knew what the end goal was going to be like, hey, once you get this figured out, you can do everything you can need to do for yourself again. And that’s exactly what happened.

So, you know, in the beginning, you may be skeptical, you may be like, Oh, well I don’t know if I want to go down this this this route because you know, I’m sick. If you know, go to my local doctor. Or Kaiser, whatever it may be, you know, they’ll give me, you know, this, though, they’ll probably provide me this treatment for X amount of cost. But a lot of people know, at the end of the day, that’s only getting them so far, it’s not fixing the problem, it’s mitigating the problem at best. And, you know, at the end of the day, you want to be healthy, you want to be able to live a long life. And, you know, I knew what my end goal was from the beginning. So the cost was negligible. You know, I knew what I wanted.

And, you know, I’m, I’m so much healthier now. And I have zero regrets for paying what I did, because, you know, I have a good job, I can make a good income. What would happen if I wasn’t able to do that? Because I was still sick?


Dr. Joel Rosen: Right? Well, okay, so let’s talk about those specific things. I mean, so you’re right, I don’t think people realize the cost of being sick. I mean, if you’re off week for work for six weeks, if you’re not able to work at full capacity, if you take sick days, if you don’t have advances, if you don’t have entrepreneurial skills, or not skills, but motivation and drive to do that extra work to put yourself further, they’re taking, you know, potentially money out of your paycheck anyways, for insurance for things that aren’t working.

The test that you’ve done, the supplements that you’ve done, there’s a number there that I think I’m more familiar with a lot more than a lot of people are in terms because I’ve done so many questioning, I am very aware of that. But back down to like your actual specific results Marcellus in terms of like, you were depressed. And I think, you know, if we look back, you said quite honestly, it will, you probably were fearful of the sadness, or the depression that you had, or just the pain, or being, you know, with your relationship, and motivation and drive, and, or libido and vigor, but give us some of the things that you have now that maybe you had forgotten about, or that have been as a result of what are the things that the specific results that you have?


Marcellus Johnson: Yeah, so, I mean, you mentioned libido, that’s definitely there. Now, before, I would, I would call it like, previously. And, you know, this is kind of interesting, because this was actually going on for a couple of years before I had even spoken with you in terms of my libido and like, motivation and drive. It just wasn’t was what it once was, I would say probably started like 2017, in a, it progressively got worse. But, you know, I remember, you know, on a typical day, I’d wake up to go to work, you know, I’d sleep 910 hours, and I would still be exhausted, I’d wake up, you know, show up to work. And it would be like a challenge for me to do the best that my job.

You know, now, and I’m not saying to get sleep, but now I can sleep seven hours input in, like, twice the amount of effort and still have the energy to do some other stuff. You know, I was kind of like a walking dead, so to speak. And yeah, just now it’s like black and white, honestly, like, I have so much more energy to do more. You know, one thing I really noticed is like, I don’t have brain fog, and my mental focus is a lot sharper, even with less sleep. Whereas, like, before, even if I got more sleep, you know, that wasn’t like, I’d probably be sharp for like three or four hours out of the day. You know, by the time 3 pm hit, you know, mentally I’m out the door ready? Like I just can’t hold a conversation.

And, you know, now it’s the complete opposite like I’m, you know, ready to go all hours of the day, even when I just wake up. And yeah, it’s honestly kind of crazy. Like, I didn’t realize, to what degree my energy levels were depleted for not addressing them. But, you know, we started talking about my Dutch test results, you know, I’ve timed my testosterone being so low. And, you know, my cortisol is so high and you know, other things just being out of whack. And, you know, we started addressing those things and you know, there’s been a huge difference


Dr. Joel Rosen: that’s it, it’s great to hear it make you know, it had I not reached out to you and just say Hey, how you doing? I wouldn’t have had that selfish internal feeling good feeling that I’m having right now. Because sometimes you don’t hear from your best clients just because they’re doing so well. You know, and, and, you know, we always say no news is good news, right? So I’m really happy to hear that I really, really genuinely am. I’m so so happy to hear that. And I always feel like with a lot of people, Marcel It’s so far yet so close from getting there.

They’re getting there themselves. Because really, we implemented strategic, customizable health realities that weren’t really being looked at from the traditional approach. And they made huge differences, which is, which is really, really great. In your case, knowing about helping to support your antioxidant release, you said like, as far as Actually, that’s an interesting thing, you mentioned that you didn’t realize the extent of how much-depleted energy will show up in the 30,000 views of different symptoms. And before we started talking, you mentioned your hip pain and going to physical therapy, and what you would have had to do had that doc get better, maybe get a little bit into that to tell people how that was, you know, an aha for you.


Marcellus Johnson: Yeah, so I was dealing with hip pain for about seven, six years, seven years at that point. So I had this worst pain in my right hip. And I went to physical therapy twice since 2013. started working with you, Dr. Rosen, within six, not less than six months, like three months, the hip pain completely vanished, and also my costochondritis. And this is something that they said after the second time of me going to physical therapy that I would surgery if I had to go back.

And you know, as someone very young, thinking that you’re going to have to have surgery on a major joint because you’re having pain in there. Like, I was, like, I’m, I’m probably just not gonna get surgery on it if that’s the case, but, you know, I didn’t realize it was related to, you know, me being inflamed, you know, that was the underlying cause. And, you know, that can be mitigated with addressing different health issues that I was experiencing, you know, I mentioned donating I or my blood and give getting rid of that excess iron, because my ferritin was through the roof. And that helped tremendously. You know, just that, but, you know, all the other things that we did as well.

But yeah, that’s something that I dealt with for years. And honestly, at that point, I thought I might be dealing with it for the rest of my life because it was just so long and ongoing. You know, it’s, it’s, it’s like something that happens for so long, it just becomes normal, like, Oh, well, my hips hurting again, you know, I would actually tell my fiance, we would lay down, I would sit like crisscross applesauce. And I would tell her to sit on my right knee as I would lay back and stretch out the hip because it would hurt that bad sometimes.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Wow. You know, it’s a lot of lessons again, as you speak, Marsalis I think about the irony of, because we didn’t really promise a result of lower hip pain, right, we basically, I always tell people, let’s get to the foundational root causes and really work you at the cellular level, and really reduce inflammation and support, inflammation control and, and have an abundance of metabolic energy to now power your cells and wherever that may top off the engines, you’ll see results.

So it’s more of, we’ll figure it out, as we get better what other things will, you’ll notice that the Compare and contrast that too well, we don’t know what it is, but if you need, you know, you may need surgery, like, you know, this is it’s, it’s the complete polar opposite, on the one hand, it, you don’t know what it is, you’re gonna have to cut it out. On the other hand, we’re gonna support your foundational stuff. And, and if we do that, you’ll see your body be healthier. And, and that’s what the body is meant to do, right? I mean, it really is meant to, it’s amazing that you came up, let me ask you, because I know I was upset, I hurt my back.

And I, that’s when I got burnt out. And they mentioned to me that I would have to have surgery too. And I was kind of, excuse the language like pissed off. Like, imagine if I would have had surgery, you know, and what would have that would have come out of it. Okay, like, Why wasn’t I given the option to rehab this on my own, you know, and get better, but you’ve taped? Did you have any animosity? I don’t know. Like, have you having any lingering? I guess it’s hard to live a life of anger and regret and blame and so forth. But have you thought about that, like if you would have gone down a different road to approach this what could have been?


Marcellus Johnson: Yeah, I got a good comparison. Actually, I actually had surgery on my left shoulder because I tore my labrum back around the same time in 2013 and I got a second opinion in 2017. You know, obviously a little bit before we met because I had zero mobility. And, you know, they’re actually able to get the mobility back. But it’s like, something feels off about it. Like, it’s not 100%. And, you know, if I do a lot of push-ups, it starts hurting a lot. And, you know, I might have to do something about my left shoulder sooner than later, but get the surgery, like, I can just say, like, it helped a lot, but it wasn’t perfect.

And I, you know, reflecting on potentially going down that rabbit hole with my right hip, I’m thinking, if I had potentially, you know, just gone down a more natural path with my arm, maybe, it wouldn’t have like that lingering pain, and, you know, some of them still some of the mobility issues that it still has, because when I went to get that second opinion, they said that the labor healed, so it reattached itself. So if that was the case, why am I still having some issues with it, you know, what I mean? So, I don’t know what they did exactly, because I’m not a surgeon. You know, I, I definitely think about my left arm, you know, if I would have gone down a different route, how that could have turned out. And I feel like a lot of this is trial and error, if like I, you know, I feel for people who, you know, don’t really know any better, you know, they just go down the traditional medical route, because that’s all they know.

And, obviously, I had to do a ton of research on my own, I came across you, you educated me and a lot of things, you know, just the whole methylation pathway that kind of blew my mind when you started going through that. And, you know, a lot of things started making sense to me of why I was so inflamed because, you know, my brain just cut out from unmet keep one so like, I’m not producing as much gluten bound to detoxify myself, as you know, the average person is so you know, little things like that. It just, you know, when you start coming on it from like, I guess, like an educated, biological perspective, like a lot of things start making more sense on why your body is going through what it’s going through. Versus, hey, I don’t have a headache. Here’s a pill. You know, that’s, that’s just a whole different paradigm of trying to treat and diagnose people, for whatever they’re going through.


Dr. Joel Rosen: So yeah, that’s awesome. That’s really great. I mean, that’s what we intend to do when we work together is educate you on top of your desire and your willingness to understand sort of the user manual of your body and realize that there are these you mentioned, perfect storm. So if you have the average person who doesn’t have these Perfect Storm things, perhaps they can do more reductionistic approaches and take this for that and that for this and may feel better, but if it’s chronic or it’s multi-system, there’s not just a fatigue thing, there’s a pain thing, there’s an anxiety thing, there’s a libido thing, there’s a mood, you know, energy mood, or, you know, I can’t sleep thing, chances are there is more going on than just the adrenals or the HPA axis.

And, and that was a really good segue for us in terms of Hey, like, here’s the what, on the HPA axis. Now, we got to investigate them and start to build a program and customize it around you and, and what your unique susceptibilities and environmental triggers are that create that perfect storm. And then you know, in your case, being aware of your iron status, making sure that you’re always turning on the firehose, when there is inflammation with the nerf to and keep on and sulforaphane and broccoli sprout extract, and turmeric. And resveratrol can all be very, very helpful for you. And then, of course, your mindset, too, is huge in terms of like, yeah, it’s not fun, but it’s worth it. Because I know I’m going to feel better. If I’m not having fast food once a day. It doesn’t mean I can’t have it ever in my life. It just means that if I want to feel better, the cost-benefit ratio is worth it or it’s not.

And you have a lot of insight for a young guy, he really does. I’m really proud of you. As far as what would you tell anyone who might be skeptical themselves of doing any type of program together with myself? What would you tell them if they were skeptical about it?


Marcellus Johnson: Um, definitely do your own research. But you know, don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. If you haven’t done your own research and you’re just thinking about the price tag. Don’t sell yourself short because that’s what that’s essentially what you’re doing. You know, I as we were working together, I mean, I think Do you notice this, I was actively paying attention and trying to understand what you were teaching me. And, you know, I did a lot of homework on my own too, and everything you said made sense. You know, our body is very intricate, everything’s connected in one way or another.

And I feel like a lot of people, you know, don’t intuitively, or maybe they do intuitively understand that, but they just don’t understand how it works. So I feel like a lot of the information, you know, overviewing, can seem kind of overwhelming. And some people would just be skeptical because they’re not sure you know what exactly, you’re telling them. But, you know, do your own research, and you have nothing to lose. I mean, what’s the worst-case scenario, you stay sick, and keep doing what you’ve been doing?

You know, most things in life, from my perspective, require some form of an investment on your end, anything that’s worth it, like, you know, I mentioned, I have a fiance, I have to invest into our relationship, otherwise, it’s not going to be good, your health is the same way. No, anything in your life is the same way you have kids, it’s the same way, if you have a job, it’s the same way. You know you can’t, you know, just passively go about it. and expect, you know, whoever your primary care doctor is just to passively go about it, you’re gonna get better here or take this pill here, do this, this may work, this might not work, care to get this surgery.

If you really want to get better, you have to invest in resources that are going to help you get better. And I know, from my own experience, you have been a huge help, and have really helped me change my life for the better. So I really appreciate that Dr. Rosen.


Dr. Joel Rosen:  that’s awesome. I mean, I’m really happy to hear that I’ve helped you with that, I take a very small responsibility for it. And over the course of our interview today, you can see why it’s been so helpful because you then combine the perfect storm of what you need to heal. And that’s a little bit of this, a little bit of that. And obviously, it’s the knowledge of what’s going on, in a different outside the box approach that you haven’t been considering traditionally.

And it’s also the implementation of the strategies. And it’s also sort of the visible, intangible parts, which are almost the glue that makes it work if you didn’t have that. And that is the desire, the willingness, the fortitude, the believability, the, you know, the knowing it’s that that you have that I think that whoever is listening to this, that’s the more important lesson is that you deserve to be healthy, you can do everything you can to be healthy, you will get healthy. You’re, you know, understanding that and the information.

And I think also realizing that the Dutch test was just sort of the tip of the iceberg. And then it now goes into the how the why the when the where all those things, not so much the what. And yeah, I just want to thank you for your time today. I appreciate your sharing your information. And also I’m really happy to hear about you know about how it’s been helping you and how you’ve been productive. Any plans for the future family or travel and when the world gets open again, what’s what do you have now with this newfound energy?


Marcellus Johnson: Yeah, yeah. Well, I have a friend going to need or like moving to New York soon. So I and my fiance might go visit her maybe in the next couple of months. So that in terms of traveling, obviously, I’m engaged. So we’re thinking about getting married sooner than later. COVID kind of threw a wrench into everything. But you know, that’s, that’s the world nowadays.

So we’re just trying to figure it out. But yeah, we’re thinking sometime this year, it’s probably going to be something somewhat last second. So yeah, I’m excited for the rest of the year. Everything’s looking pretty good. But yeah, I’m just thankful to be able to have my health and be able to live again.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, that’s awesome. Well, listen, thank you so much for being here today, Marcellus and I look forward to hearing some awesome updates for you in the future as well.


Marcellus Johnson: Thanks, Dr. Rosen. A pleasure to be here.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Thank you.


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