Healing Adrenal Fatigue Over The Internet


Dr. Joel Rosen: All right. Hello, everyone. And welcome back to another edition of the less stress life where we teach exhausted and burnt-out adults, the truth about adrenal fatigue so that we can get them their health back quickly. And this is always a pleasure to be joined by a client of ours that we’ve had some really successful outcomes. And this has been the same with Gus Pon single who’s had some major health challenges along the way. However, we’ve been able to customize a recovery strategy around his unique health challenges and really get some major wins. And we want to share with you Gus his journey today. So Gus, thank you so much for being here today. I appreciate your time. Thanks for having me. Oh, yeah. So I was just looking through our initial onset of care.

And that goes back as early as November 2018. Now, that doesn’t mean we necessarily saw you every single month over that course of time. But ultimately, when when you presented and reached out to us, you had several health challenges that you were dealing with, when I look at some of the forms that you filled out, insomnia was a huge one, what you actually had forgotten about, as we talked about a little earlier, brain fog, bloating, gastric pains, why don’t you tell us a little bit about your background in your story, and you said, You’ve been dealing with this for about 10 years. So why don’t you tell us a little bit about what you were dealing with before starting with us? Gus?


Gus Ponstingl: Yeah, I think a lot of it started really, once I got married about 14 years ago, and I had some food poisoning in that rough, early marriage period. And then I ended up going overseas on a couple of trips. And my gut really started to suffer, I felt bloated, and I also just noticed that I was putting on weight, without the ability to take it off. And I didn’t notice I was really doing anything specifically different to do that. And then I also noticed that fatigue started setting in so it was like I was just gradually getting worse, you know, it wasn’t like an immediate, although the food poisoning, I felt that was a step-down, you know, and I felt constipation at that point.

And it never really went away, you know, and I was doing all kinds of things to try to get my browser, my bowel movements going. And I just, it was really a struggle over the years. And I’m a natural person. So I really, somewhere along the line, I got out of the medical world, and I started doing natural, and I’m really reluctant to go to that world. So I was doing a lot of natural things. And but you know, you’d have some success, but you weren’t really like nailing it. And so, yeah, gradually, it just, I almost lost the ability to sleep at all.

I mean, I think I, I get about three to four hours a night, early in the evening, and about three o’clock, I’d wake up and I’d be awake for a lot, you know, I’d be awake most of the morning with very light sleeping, and then up again. And I ended up doing some things in the middle of the night as hobbies that really were productive. But you know, it was like, I’d rather be sleeping, you know, and so that that was something that, you know, we were just talking about has changed dramatically as a big change. In fact, this morning, again, was it was seven o’clock, the alarm was going off. And I was like, you know, I have to get out of bed now.

And that was never the case. So seven o’clock is a pretty normal time for most people to get out of bed. But I’d be easily up at three or four in the morning and just almost cursing that clock, The clock, you know, like, I’m not going to get back to sleep, what am I going to do? And I’d be wide awake. You know you’d get that feeling of like, yeah, I’m not at all as we, you know. So, gradually, though, what, what led me to work with you is I’ve worked with several practitioners. Um, I don’t know when it really started in earnest that I know I needed how, but I would get little pieces of it, you know, it seemed like, but it really didn’t seem like it was all coming together.

And I think I was even feeling like maybe I was having some heart issues, although I’m not sure that was really the case. I feel like there was something with my metabolism that really had gotten stuck and I couldn’t switch over. I guess most of your audience is gonna know what ketosis is. If they’re, if they’re in your sphere, then they probably know that, as your body is switching over to ketosis from more of the sugar side of the burning. I couldn’t get there. And I would just crash crash crash. And I was baffled by that.

And so I think I was looking for, I didn’t know if it was adrenal fatigue. I know you deal a lot with adrenal fatigue and like a lot of people you hear things and you’re like, yeah, my adrenals don’t seem to be working. Maybe that’s it. So I reached out to you and then we started working together. 2018 I noticed improvement. Pretty much. I can’t say I’m The best patient, I mean, we didn’t meet all the time, right, we met pretty infrequently every three, six months. Um, and I would sort of wing it for a while.

And I would say, gradually, I’ve been getting better, you know, with a little bit of a stress setback, this last fall or early spring. But then we kind of started fine-tuning my supplements, and I really feel like, again, it’s like, I don’t know, if I’m churning out getting better, like getting stuff out of my system. But yeah, I do gradually feel like, things are getting better.

Again, I do crazy things at night, I used to not do anything in the evening, I was a blob on the couch, you know, I will be four o’clock, five o’clock, I was out of energy, you know, and I was gonna sit on the couch, and, you know, play videos, and I have five kids. So, you know, watching my kids grow up, and not being able to go out and do things with them. Or, you know, my daughter’s always wanting to go ride her bike, you know or teach kids basketball or whatever, you know, I wasn’t able to do any of that stuff. Because I just, it’s hard to describe like, you don’t have the ability to do it.

You’re just literally a blob, and I kind of look at it like aging, you know, like, I’m getting old, and I’m not that old Sintel. But unlike those old people who can’t get off the chair, you know, they just sit there all day, staring at a TV and I don’t want to be that person, you know, I want to live to 100. And I want to have energy up until the end. Or it’s not worth it. Right. So yeah. Last night, I was up again. So I know I was active until about nine without really a big drop in energy, which for most people is not a big deal. But when you lose it and you realize something is going on causing it and you need to figure it out.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, that’s good, that’s a good stroll. I mean, it’s, ultimately, I’m looking at some of the notes. And I know like it first and foremost if you’re not sleeping, everything revolves around getting good quality sleep to recharge your battery, it’s like a battery that is a rechargeable battery that you didn’t charge fully the first time around. So every time you put it in use, it never completely fully holds its charge. But when I looked at your initial notes, you know, one of the things you mentioned was that you were trying the keto and that it had impacted you really badly. And I asked you about where you tracking where you’re looking at your numbers.

And I think that’s a big lesson for a lot of people because they hear about, hey, maybe keto will make me feel better. I do have a massive sugar craving my blood sugar feels like it goes up and down. And then I feel shaky lightheaded and jittery. And if I don’t have food immediately available, then I’m going to crash. And one of the very first things that we talked about Gus was, Hey, are you actually taking your glucose levels or your ketone levels?

And I was surprised that you hadn’t because I think I don’t know so much about malpractice. But if a provider suggests that you try a particular diet, and you don’t look at the dashboard, if you will, like if you’re a pilot and you’re flying a plane, and you’re not looking at your coordinates, how do you know how good of a job you’re doing? So that was one of the first things that do you remember that at all? Or what kind of Amaz you had from that?


Gus Ponstingl: Well, I never went into ketosis. I never once got you to know what I mean? I’d be so your body does a lot of weird things when it gets stuck without sugar. And you’ll notice as you’re winding down, it’s trying it’s like you’re trying to start the car and all it does is a grind and you’re not going to move. So if you know, eight to 12 hours after stopping eating goes by and you have no keto ketones, you know, you’re below love low, you’re just not gonna, you’re gonna feel it, you’re gonna feel horrible.

And then you’re going to crave sugar because at least I did. You know, I was craving sugar to try to get the engine started again because the ketones weren’t happening. So, and it wasn’t the lack of trying. I mean, it was months and months and months and months of trying to do that, where it just didn’t seem to be working.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, and that’s where it requires, okay, well, it’s good that we’re testing and we’re seeing I’m not getting there. But then it becomes Why am I not getting there. And that’s where the functional approaches or the customization comes into play. And one of the first things we did was do a neutral genomic or DNA test to get some insights as what are some of your potentials that could be creating inflammation, because I look at it as Okay, if you’re having sugar cravings, you’re not putting the logs on the fire, so to speak, like you may be eating a lot of healthy fats.

And for some reason, your body is just not transitioning that to cutting the logs and putting them on the fire. And then that would require you to put something like some kindling on the fire hence the need for some kind of sweet something to give you some energy right away. Do you remember at all Guess what some of the initial suggestions were on or the take-homes that you had when we looked at the genetic component? I don’t mean to put you on the spot. But is there anything that stuck out in terms of, Hey, this is what’s going on, potentially in your body that you had no clue about?


Gus Ponstingl: Now, I don’t remember specifics. I was actually away about two years ago. Are you right? Yeah. Yeah. So you came up with some suggestions based on supplements? Right? Again, I’d had a hard time remembering exactly which ones they were. But I noticed, when I took on it, was it just as a feeling of like, Oh, yeah, that fits. You know, it just didn’t feel overwhelming, but it didn’t feel like it felt like it filled a void in my right, my life, or my day or whatever.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, so and usually those will be like, based on that some people will email me and or put a comment to a video and say, hey, what supplements do you recommend, and I’m always adamant about I don’t know, because I don’t know you. And I want to make sure that we’re making a customized recovery suggestion. And if you’re not kicking on your ketones on the fire, then perhaps we’re using things like carnitine, or things that will help break down your healthy fats a little bit better.

But specifically, Gus, one of the findings that we had on your blood work that was in the middle zone, meaning it wasn’t high from a lab range, but it was high from a healthy range was your iron status, and how your iron is oxidizing? So give us a little Aha, or what you’ve learned about that.


Gus Ponstingl: Right? Well, so I think the response to that was, we started, I started just giving blood, you know, and I gave blood regularly. There are, there are some supplements I learned, I don’t think it was even from you. But I just learned there were some that that can help lower that. And I don’t know if I expect some for a little while. I think curcumin was one of those. But within a very short period of time, it dropped pretty significantly.

And, you know, at the same time as I would give blood, I did, I did feel, again, a sense of relief, like it’s this almost like a weight that you were carrying, is that you’re not carrying it anymore. So I think as you’re as I was going through my recovery process, the ongoing changes that we were making seem to constantly help get me a little closer to where I needed to be.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Right, and so one of the things again, looking at your notes, as one of the things that you were telling me is okay, like, I’m feeling better, like, generally my energy is getting better, but my brain fog is still foggy. And that’s very frustrating for you. So. So then we go a little bit deeper into either new testing or go into reviewing the nutrigenomics. Again, or very important, which I see a lot of practitioners not do. If you’re gonna do a test the first time and implement a strategy, it’s really important to do a test a second time to see how that strategy is working to see if you’re moving the needle in the right way objectively because you want to relate that to subjectively Hey, great, you’re feeling 75% better with your energy, but your brain fog still not working. Right.

And that’s what we want to dive into. And one of the things we’ve noticed Gus was some toxic chemicals and exposures. So tell us because we were talking before we got on here today, how you had these all haws with, you know, the chemicals in the environment and how that impacted you as well, to get you to that next level?


Gus Ponstingl: Yeah, well, we talked about mold, which was one of the things that showed up, and whether that was so so I don’t know if this plays into it. But so things like stevia, I don’t know, if we talked about that one. This might be even new. So one of the things I was taking was as a supplement, or not as a supplement, but in it rather than sugar was stevia, you know, and I was adding it to just about everything. And I never heard stevia could cause any side effects.

And I was actually getting very, very sore kidneys. As a result of that. I stopped taking it and it was like one of those symptoms that had been cropping up strangely out of the blue or the last year just kind of went down. We’ll probably need to talk about that one more in-depth. But so that was somewhat related to the oxalates. So oxalates are those things that you can eat, they’re kind of little shards, I guess that kind of rub or irritate your, your, your body, your muscles, and things. And so I was working on that because I felt that as well. And I didn’t really feel the withdrawal of the oxalates as much as the stevia, man that was just killing me.

So and then in response to that, I think we were looking at maybe having mold issues coming out of that as well. So there’s the possibility that that’s going down. Um, but I’ve been doing, I think my gut issues, they’re still complicated and I know I had like four, three or four things or three or four different levels of it. Their h pylori were one mold. The other one I forgetting anyway, it’s a protozoan or whatever. parasite. Yeah, and then parasite. So you know, like, as you’re working through that, that’s frustrating. And so that’s one of the toughest things I think to have to deal with is, is cleaning up the gut or getting the gut to work, right?

And then, yeah, the brain fog stuff as well. So it’s been, it’s been progressing. I feel like things have progressed in that area. But it’s definitely a feeling slower. It’s not as quick. It’s been somewhat frustrating in some ways to you know, you wish you could just take a pill and be finished with it. But, you know, especially since I think it started about 14 years ago.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, well, you know, you listen, a lot of people listening to this will understand and say, yeah, I’ve had that to where, and I have people that before working together, they’ll tell me, they’re seeing someone, and they’re a GI guy, or they’re seeing someone and they’re a mold person, or they’re seeing someone, their adrenal person. But what they’re missing is the fact that the specialists, even in the functional world, just like the traditional world, tend not to talk to each other. And the body is a generalist. And that’s what I think is really important in terms of, it’s not so much which one do I do first?

It’s more. So how do I lower the expenses in the body first, meaning like, if you have inflammation and oxidative stress that is that’s going on, fundamentally, and it’s robbing you of your core minerals and nutrients, then you don’t want to embark on a parasite protocol or heavy metal protocol or whatever protocol until you lower the inflammation per se? That’s why it was so key to get you to understand that component of iron oxidation.

One of the other things that we saw, too, that you had, which is a genetic susceptibility, meaning we have to chaperone iron in the body effectively and somewhere along the assembly line, and may not be getting from point A to point B to point C to point D, effectively. And we want to help you get to the widget-making process very helpful before we embark on something else.

But something else we talked to you about. And I don’t mean to put you on the spot here as we talked about histamine, and how environmentally debt pets dander is pollen stress, your immune system, alcohol, certain foods. Was there any aha that you had with understanding how histamine was creating that imbalance in your body are creating that inflammation in body? Yeah, you had? Yeah, change around?


Gus Ponstingl: Yeah, I tell you, there’s been a lot of food changes and variations that have helped. That that that seems to have been something that I started to incorporate a couple of years ago as well when we first started kind of keeping Who’s that are allergic to? And I think a lot of the practitioners I’ve worked with even before you had some insight into the allergy testing and stuff like that. So I don’t remember what did we do specifically related to the histamines that I can’t remember I’ll tell you if that seemed to be effective or not. But DA.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, I was the supplement for when you eat foods could be one of the main ones that that help with clearing out histamine. And also, just being aware of I mean, iron oxidation and all the oxalate challenges, all of them lead to the histamine highway road as well. So it really depends on what your unique onramps are. So onramps could be stress could be certain foods that are higher in histamine.

So fermentable foods can be alcohol, mold will produce a lot of histamines as well. So it’s kind of a combination of everything that we’re talking specifically about a supplement, it probably would have been the DA o supplement. So I don’t know if there was any of those that kind of resonated with you or was just a combination of everything. Gus.


Gus Ponstingl: Yeah, I would say more of a combination. You know,


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, for sure. So and then, of course, looking at some of the other things, you’re absolutely right. I mean, we looked at your organic acid test, and there were a lot of really high oxalates. So and you mentioned what those are, they’re basically plant-based compounds. Usually, they’re in spinach or Swiss char or beats, where there are these little crystals that can form in your tissues.

And that can create fatigue, mitochondrial issues where it robs you and Kilates your minerals, it can create a lot of pain, a lot of brain fog. I don’t remember was that one of the things that you had a major challenge with musculoskeletal like Fibromyalgia type pains?


Gus Ponstingl: I think I was Yeah, I mean, I think I don’t know if we talked about the kidneys being affected. I think that part of the seminar was going, you know, especially the right side of my body, you know, the arm, the leg, the toes, kind of everything connected to this axis would get sore. And that started. I’m gonna say four years ago, five years ago, where that just kind of grew worse over time, again, going to different practitioners, and a lot of guys out there really don’t seem like so if you go to your, your internet guys like I would call you internet, you’re like a superstar.

And you can just tell there’s like the higher game, you know, you’re dealing with a lot of issues in that world where, you know, people are very in tune to what’s going on. But the local guy is, you know, like the local chiropractors and whatnot that I went to really don’t get it. I think, for anybody that’s out there that’s watching this, you got to be careful with, you know, how much you give a local guy that doesn’t have, I don’t know, a broader perspective about what’s going on in the world of, of alternative health stuff.

Because I just don’t feel I feel like they kind of lose, they lose the edge, they’re not really keeping in touch with what’s going on cutting edge stuff, or, or the general philosophy about how, how all this stuff is connected. You know, I think they’ll get there. But it’s just, there’s a learning curve, and everybody’s kind of learning. And so it takes a while for it to diffuse to the broader population.

So a lot of the issues I was I was trying to deal with, with local guys, I really felt like you just got nowhere, you know, how to take this supplement. And, you know, you just know immediately if it would work or not, you know like nothing would happen. You’re like, yeah, that guy just was guessing, you know?


Dr. Joel Rosen: Right. Well, I mean, it speaks to you too, though. And I think that’s important. I mean, what we’re talking about is complicated stuff. Like, I always am amazed that the people that I see that seek out not the local provider, but say the internet person, they’re on their game, I remember a mentor of mine told me like, if you’re gonna play at this level, you got to know your stuff, because your clients are gonna know their stuff better than you, you’re gonna know their stuff. And I didn’t want to be that doctor, that so many people that I see, tell me I knew more about, you know, my body than the doctor did.

And that happens a lot. So, you know, kudos to you for knowing like, the other day, like, literally, you did make me get goosebumps when you told me like, it’s, it’s so rewarding to be able to, you know, go on the bike ride with my daughter, and it’s so rewarding to be able to do these things. So kudos to you for having the perseverance and the skill set to apply and implement what we recommended.

So a lot of the questions we get too, though, is sometimes it can be cumbersome or daunting, because you have to have a special diet, you’re on 1001 different supplements, you’re you know, tell me about that aspect? How did you manage to be a father of five like I always joke around, I know, I was on the call while you’re burnt out and tired. You don’t have to tell me any more? You got five kids. Right? So but how did you manage to be a working dad, a spouse? a, you know, someone that has health challenges? And has all these different things? Yeah, how did you manage that?


Gus Ponstingl: Oh, it just so your audience does. I turned 52 this past March, so I’ve no spring chicken either. And I started late in life. So a lot of what I wanted in life, I kind of had put off. And so I didn’t get married until I was like 36. And so having five kids in a really short period of time, you know, I think it was under it was under 10 years. So but seven, eight years. And you know, one of my goals is just to be there for you know what I mean and to raise them so that they’re healthy, productive individuals in the world. And so I’ve had a strong background. My background is actually I was pre-med as an undergrad. So I was in the medical school system in St. Louis.

And then I didn’t go I ended up not going to medical school. And but I always had a passion for nutritional type stuff. And that really grew once the internet came along. So I was pre-internet, you know, a lot of my early education was before the internet. But as I started learning about alternative health, I really got excited about health again, you know, whereas medicine I could tell, and this is I think we haven’t really even talked about the medical providers out there, which, you know, honestly, I still don’t think maybe it was about 5% of the problems in the world.

You know, they just throw drugs at symptoms and forget whatever else is going on. So if anybody’s out there trying to figure out if they should get into alternative health, I’d say, you know, definitely, the more you can abandon your medical doctor, this is me saying I’m not sure But the more you get a ban in your medical doctor, the better because it sort of forces you to solve problems, and really solve it. Because if you don’t get better with alternative health, you’re going to not feel different because you’re not going to treat that symptom.

And so that was one thing that I and I still really believe that you know like I really have to stay on. It’s kind of like an exercise program, you just have to do it regularly. If you want to stay healthy, you got to keep looking for what’s going on in your world and your health. So that was one of my underlying philosophies. And that’s why I’m a little bit I’m probably not the easiest patient to have, because I’m a bit of a biohacker, you know, I mean, I’ll just kind of give me this, and then I’ll try that, you know, like, I’ll just kind of veer off the path really quick, because I hear some I heard something was good.

But I really feel like you gotta listen to people who know what they’re doing that they have insights, bigger, bigger exposures, and it’s complicated. It’s a complicated world, to understand all the things that can affect your health, and that without seeing that bigger picture, and then going in on the small things, you’re just not going to make progress. And so yeah, and I still feel like, and I think budget is a big part of it, I really wish more of the tests were, you know, like, it would be so nice if you didn’t have to fork over a couple $1,000 to get, you know, like everything you need, and be able to do that more often. So I’m hoping that changes more in the future as well because I feel like that’s one thing that holds people back.

I remember one of my first. Yeah, one of the first guys that were locked. It was long before I talked to you. But I’d reached out to somebody else. And I think I was looking at about $6,000 for the test. And I didn’t have the money. You know, I’m young, well, I’m not so young. But I’m a dad that has a bunch of young kids, I don’t have a ton of savings, I can’t afford that much money, you know, and it wasn’t like I could do this one or this one, I had to do law.

And so I ended up going with somebody else because they were willing to do more piecemeal testing. And, again, I don’t know if that was a good idea or not, but it just was all I could do. You know. So that’s one of their frustrations, I think is that the world of testing still hasn’t gotten to the point where it’s, it’s super affordable. Yeah, although I think it’s getting more affordable, I think they’re getting a better test for the same price. But it would be nice to see that. You know.


Dr. Joel Rosen: A couple of great things you said there, and I just want to repeat them. The first one is, you no one’s gonna care as much about you getting healthy as you write. So you’re gonna have to be your best advocate. And a lot of the clients that are potentially exhausted and, and strapped because they can’t work at full capacity, or they’ve already spent a lot of money, or they have five kids or all of the above, they go to their primary doctor, and they want their doctor to give them more than 1015 minutes. So they’ve had to, you know, do the searching on their own. So it becomes a bit of a catch 22.

But you do have to be your biggest advocate, I do agree with you, I think it is getting better in terms of the traditional approaches, or the allopathic medicine, or how much money you spend on health care for your insurance every month should cover more of the fundamental testing. So I do see that happen. I do see that improving. I always like to know, though, like because I want the clients that we work with to think of it as an investment. Right? I mean, you really do have to think of it as an investment in terms of well, first and foremost, how much is it costing you to be back? I think a lot of people don’t Oops, sorry, I forgot. I think a lot of people don’t realize that.

Sorry, I don’t know which one I’m on, I need to plug in my computer because it’s going to die on me here. But I want to make sure I know which one I’m plugging in here. Alright. So I think that a person has to figure out how much is truly impacting me financially like if I can’t work a full day if I can’t advance if I have to miss days if I have to turn down projects, there’s a cost there. If I have to, you know, they take 300 or $400 out of my paycheck to pay for my insurance, there’s a cost there. There’s a cost in terms of the testing that your co-payments or your supplements.

So I really always want someone to have those smelling salts under their nose in terms of how much even though you’re going to see your primary and most of that is covered. What what’s the impact on you financially? Right. So what made you made that decision? would you say that there has been a return in terms of if you have a higher quality of health, that you can do more projects as an architect or you could tell me about that aspect?


Gus Ponstingl: Well, this year was different in that I think we hit we hit some financial goals that were really helpful to hit. You know, I had an I had a new business that in the last eight years or 10 years I’ve started two new businesses. So whenever you start a business, you pretty much go back to barely making it, you know, and it wasn’t, it wasn’t a big choice to second to start the second business, it sort of had to happen. And so that reset kind of hit maturity about last year.

And so I’m at that stage where I decided to invest in feeling better, because, you know, like you said, If I’m not healthy, it doesn’t matter, I’m not going to be doing the work, or I’m not gonna be doing a good job anyway. And again, if I can work another 1520 years, which is, that’s my goal is probably working to my abs, I would, I’ve got the kind of business where I can continue to do that. But if I’m not healthy enough to do it, then that’s a big loss.

And so it’s better to spend the time and energy now and figure out what’s wrong and get on on a better track. Absolutely. Then to suffer through. Or if you go the medical route, odds are you’re going to live a very short life and be very sick. I’ve seen my friends die. I’ve seen friends die going to doctors getting pills, pills, pills, pills, pills, you know, and they’re not with me anymore. You know. So it’s sad to see that. You know, and I warned him I tried to warn.


Dr. Joel Rosen: So yeah, you know, I used to do in-office workshops. And I remember a mentor of mine had a really great soundbite that I would always use and like, Okay, well, you get insurance, and insurance is covered. And if it’s not covered, I can’t see you. And that’s like saying, Well, imagine you had like a diner pass to a restaurant that it was paid for.

But every time you went, it may just stick like that, just because it’s covered doesn’t mean that you should go and do it anyway. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But today, though, I feel that people do want to make that investment and have made that investment. But then they were left with no results, right?

Because they, you know, so how, I don’t know, just from your side of you alluded to it earlier, how do they avoid that, like, Okay, I’m willing to spend, but I’ve done four doctors and no one’s going.


Gus Ponstingl: But I’ve been telling people I know, especially those that are already investing in testing and other things. I’ve been telling them to just bring your tests and call you, you know, like, it started with somebody that can piece the pieces together, you know, like, maybe they’re missing a test or two, but they can start and I think that’s what I did with you is I just kind of brought a lot of the tests I had, and you’ve got a ton of them there. And you can kind of look back over time going well, this issue was already, you know, already 10 years ago, as opposed to you know, so that’s helpful.

And I think it’s a good way for people to get started with a little better care, you know, but again, that’s no knock the on the alternative world out there. It’s just, it’s just really, I don’t think there’s any cohesive sort of like, okay, we’re all on, you know, the same team, everybody’s kind of working towards maybe understanding these things. And that’s why I like the internet doctors, you know, the YouTube doctors are like, they’re in this world were that the ideas are flying fast. I mean, it’s amazing how a new idea will spread through this culture.

And we seem to go, okay, that works. That doesn’t work, or let’s change this. Let’s add this. And I really am. I’ve seen a lot of changes over the last 10 years, a lot of changes.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, those are great points, in terms of a lot of the clients that I can give them the best insight on is it’s there in, in plain eyesight from their old test that they didn’t get told about. And that’s a shame, because like for you, again, it’s not always about high iron. But if your iron isn’t moving, and for example, if your irons 255, your ferritin is 255. And on the lab range, it shows 30 to 390, you’re being told as normal, but if you know we don’t like to see with new research, it is above 75. A lot of doctors don’t have that on their radar.

And I can look at a test in 216 that you showed me and it shows 270 and that’s high. And that’s something you can do right away. So those are the things that I would urge other people looking for support is having someone really go through your past bloodwork from a healthy range because you’ll probably see some outliers. I’ll give you an example. One time I had a client who was really sick, and I asked her she had hepatitis antibodies, and I asked them about them, you know, what did the doctor say? Cuz I comb through all their blood work and like, like, What did they say about this?

And like, they didn’t say anything about it. And then I asked him, we’ll go ask them what they say about that. And they said, Oh, it’s past. It’s a past exposure. And because it’s a, it’s a, what they think of as I GG, which I GG antibody is typically assumed to be a past exposure. But new research shows that if they’re extremely high, like three times the range, those past exposures can reactivate.

So anyway, bottom line is, is that one of the ways that a person could hack their way into seeing some outliers that can make huge differences so that the skepticism of investing in a new doc and doesn’t have to be me, but a new doctor that can give them some insights right away, have them go through your past bloodwork and see if there’s anything there that can move the needle based on what they thought of as iron, I assume iron until proven otherwise, for sure.

So that’s a really important point that that you mentioned, I think for sure, and also being an advocate. So now let’s tell us maybe like fast forward to where we are. Now, you did mention you have more energy, but what are some of the other things that you’re noticing that maybe, you know, may have taken, you took for granted, you say like, oh, I forgot that I wasn’t sleeping, it’s funny.


Gus Ponstingl: Well, this morning, as a great example of this morning, seven o’clock rolled around, and I do have an alarm set. But I can’t tell you how many times I’m working when that alarm goes off. And I just have to turn it off, because I’m already been awake for an hour or two. But even in the last week or so it’s improving such that I’m starting to bump into that alarm in bed, I’m in that I’m in bed, either sleeping, or I’m just not awake yet. And it goes off and I’m like, that’s different. You know, like, I’m actually I’m, I’m just grateful to be still sleeping in bed at that time. And I noticed that shifts to just having a long day. So I’m not exhausted.

And anymore, it used to be four, but I mean, originally used to be four, and then I’d say over the last three, four months, it shifted gradually to seven or eight, and now it’s getting closer to nine. So it’s like my days getting longer. And that just opens up all kinds of things. Because you know, when you get home from work, or you’re done with work, there’s still a lot of time left to invest in the kids, you know, or the family. And, you know, they can get robbed of all that.

So I’ve been just in the last few weeks taking. So my son’s taking basketball and going up with him. And I’m not ready to coach or anything. I want to just hang out with the guys while they’re playing basketball. Or I took my daughter on a couple of bike rides here in the last few weeks or last week or so. And, and she would go on one every day, I think if I check her jogging more, so the physical activity is certainly there. And I feel like I’m starting to again, I was plateaued or stuck at a certain weight range.

And I feel like that’s kind of going down a little bit as well, a little easier to get some of that weight off. So, and I’m not overweight, but I just wanted to drop about five to 10, maybe 10 pounds, but mostly five. But yeah, just because you’re kind of stuck in that metabolic you know, almost a metabolic frozen state where your body will not, you know, burn its own barriers.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, those are good results. You know, the other thing too, I just have to I just got reminded of like, we had a little I won’t say a crisis call but there was not too long ago where, you know, with elections and internet and you were just being you run ragged with your thought process. And I think lifestyle-wise I encouraging you Okay, we need to contain how many variables were processing solar, any, any Aha, you had with that?


Gus Ponstingl: Big ones very well. And so stress has a huge impact on your ability to I don’t know if it’s too if your metabolic activity or your body’s ability to sort of switch into another state. So and I’m no expert in the parasympathetic nervous system or the sympathetic nervous system, but I was having I thought heart issues for about a month or two. And I went to a guy here in town, he does a little heart jack, and he’s like, it’s fine. Like, it just doesn’t feel right. And I wasn’t sleeping very well at all.

And so my pulse was really high, kind of intermittently high. And with COVID around. I mean, there’s just a lot of stuff you could blame on COVID, but I’m not sure it was COVID. And when one of the guys, one of the guys there’s another internet guy that just talked about how to how to relax and lower your pulse, and it was a breathing exercise. So I decided to give up all news like 100% and it must have been a month or two I did no news. And then I started doing these actually one night I started doing a breathing exercise. I fell asleep during the exercise.

And I didn’t wake up until say let’s say six in the morning, and I hadn’t slept in a few weeks and it was just amazing. And I repeated that Night after night, and that’s still a good habit for me is when I feel like my chest is tight, or I’m like, you know, I’m not thinking, well, I just start breathing, you know, purposefully, you know, I think they do it the forced square where you breathe in for four seconds, hold it for four seconds, breathe out for four, hold it for four. And it really does help calm me down. So you could probably talk more about the parasympathetic.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Oh, that’s awesome that like, you know, like, I think probably more so than anything was shutting off the news, because it’s just, it’s over. It’s, it’s sensational. And it’s designed to, you know, get peep viewers to watch it. And that by I mean, there’s a whole slippery slope there in terms of who owns the new station and the biased information that, but it’s polarizing, especially in today’s day and age. And if you’re a kid,


Gus Ponstingl: There’s no shock absorber out there. So like, you know, the news happens so fast. So it’s like, you’re literally in the middle of a battle, and the bullets are flying everywhere. And so if you just, if you get away from it, you know, maybe that maybe the war is going on, you’ll hear about something that you don’t have to be involved in every skirmish,


Dr. Joel Rosen: Which is, yeah, that’s a good point. But I think also to the proactive and the synergistic. It’s not just one thing, it’s everything. It’s your ability to identify foods that contribute to your oxalate levels and to be able to lower your ferritin and your iron and to be able to make sure that you’re supporting histamine levels, and to turn off the news and to breathe better and to get involved with your daughter’s activities. I mean, it’s not one of them, Gus, it’s all of them. And I think success leaves clues.

And that’s why you’re seeing such important improvements in your health. And I’m sure you would say like, it’s not, it’s not like, okay, I fixed it. And that’s it. That’s all now it’s a verb, right? I mean, speak maybe a little bit of that, like how now it’s like, you always just got to know yourself and where your finger on the pulse and make sure that you’re keeping an eye on the dashboard, right?


Gus Ponstingl: Yeah. And, and that’s why, you know, meeting regularly with you, or a practitioner is really helpful. I’m going test, you know, goals, keeping those in mind. I think it’s good at some point, maybe I would have, you know, the better you feel, maybe the more regular you get, but if you get if I get out of that rhythm or something happens, I definitely want to up my game again.

So yeah, I would say keeping healthy is a lot of things, a lot of good disciplines, you know, whether it’s eating a certain way or, or like you were saying about the breathing, the news, your hat, your hobbies, the stress in your world, all that goes into it. Yeah, it’s tough to have all of the things clicking at the same time, but you got to work towards that.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah. And you got to know like, you have tools in your toolkit even I will. I mean, I’ve suffered from my own exhaustion and fatigue, and I have iron issues. And if I’m not careful with if I’m eating too much protein and too many iron-based foods, if I’m watching too much news, if I’m staying up too late, even I’ll have my crashes.

And then sometimes we forget, we see that next shiny object, and we want to employ that and we forget the basics and what we need to do to get to where we got to and we forgot to, we took it for granted and we’re human and but as long as now you have a skill set of tools, and when to use them and when not to use them. I think that’s really what the teaching of healthcare is should be in terms of know your body, know your stressors, know your weak links, and constantly tweak it so that you’re walking that fine line, and you’re in that Goldilocks zone of not too little, not too much.

And that’s really what takes the time to figure out but I think you’ve done a great job with that. Now Yeah, yeah, no, no, that’s I mean, listen, I always tell people I’m like it’s me being a soundboard for you so that you can kind of hear yourself think and answer your own questions. There was a movie that was one of my favorite movies out there is called Mumford. I don’t know if you ever saw it, but this guy was a psychologist, but he really wasn’t a psychologist. He was a fraud.

And they found him on like FBI is like not most wanted, but he was like one of those guys and he was such an amazing psychologist even though I didn’t have the training and the reason why he was is that he just kind of let the person talk and no movie so any last words like I know if someone’s skeptical of you know, making that next decision of working not just with me, but a practitioner in general.

Any words You would help get them over the hump if they didn’t feel they can get better, or they tried everything, and nothing works, or it’s too much money or all of the above excuses, what would you say to them,


Gus Ponstingl: You know, you do have to eventually, you know, kind of face the music, like it, could get worse, you know, like, sometimes the biggest motivation is that you know, like, not doing something is a penalty you do you do suffer like I, I could feel that sort of the time was winding shorter, you know like I was doing worse, and I had that feeling of like, if I don’t change, I could say die early, but I think that’s really what it was coming down to.

And so, I would say it’s the carrot or the stick, you know, and to me, sometimes the stick has a pretty good motivation, you know, like, I gotta do something, you know. And at some point, I had to take a chance with somebody, you know, I can’t just do something and, you know, there’s not on the internet world, it’s fun. You can, you can do a lot of pre interviewing people.

By watching videos, you know, or if you know, somebody, you can’t do that so much in the real world with, I would say the real world but your locals, you know, with chiropractors, and, you know, Functional Diagnostic people, you hear word of mouth, but it’s tough. But I would say, you know, don’t wait too long, you know, do something before it’s too late.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, No decision is still a decision. I agree with you 100%. And I think also to like, just take that first step, you know, all these analogies, like, you eat a bite an elephant, one bite at a time, or, you know, like, make that first step. Because ultimately, when the student is ready, the teacher will appear. And I think that rings true with you, in terms of you. Seeing people that took you only so far, and you didn’t make the decision of this isn’t gonna work for me, or life’s not fair or nothing ever, you know, works in my favor.

And whatever decision to not make a decision is you knew like, okay, like, I have five kids, and I have a lot of second half of my life to live here. And it’s worth it. So I think there’s a lot of success in my healthy recovery clients is, those are the consistent things that I see. And that’s the glue. That’s not you’re not gonna find that in the supplement bottle. Right?

What supplement bottle do you have that gives you that? Do you know? Yeah. And then there are none. So that’s good. Yeah, no, listen, I appreciate your time. Again, it truly is rewarding for me, as a provider, to have someone have these impacts on their life. Because of the quality of life, there’s, I mean, there really is no value you can place on that even though you can place on how much it costs to not be healthy.

You can’t really put a value on like, what’s the return of investment on you having to work into your 80s and to be able to have a full day and to be able to know like your daughter wants to continue to ride her bike with you and stuff. I mean, there’s just no there’s no value on that. So yeah, thank you so much, guys. I appreciate your time. And hopefully, this encourages whoever’s listening to take that next step for themselves. And again, not with me but with someone so that you can get your health back. I appreciate the time that you gave us today.


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