Dr. Joel Rosen: Alright, hello, everyone and welcome back to another edition about the truth about your health podcast where we teach exhausted and burnt out adults the truth about their health so they can get their health back quickly. And what a privilege it is to work to talk to Dr. Joseph Anton today, he is the CEO and Chairman of the Board of L Neutre, a unique nutrient nutrient tech company leading the food as medicine movement by applying cutting edge sciences and nutrition research than the first uncover what humans should eat to live healthier longer.
And second, to help patients achieve better health outcomes. He is the chairman of the board at the Global healthspan Policy Institute, and is a member of Forbes business developmental council. So Dr. Joseph, thank you so much for being here.
Joseph Antoun: Yeah, thank you for hosting me, Dr. Chill. And hopefully, in the next 45 minutes, we’ll change somebody’s life.
Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, well, I know you, we will. And I know you have your own personal story. And maybe let’s take our listener through that so that they can identify with maybe what you how you got into what you got into and then we could really talk about the ABCs and the x, y Z’s of too fast or not too fast, and why it’s important in longevity. So maybe you start with your story.
Joseph Antoun: Well, thank you, I started as a as I always had the passion to help patients, I wanted to become a physician, which is how I started my professional professional career with and I wanted to be a cardiologist in doing my rotations. And I did those at Harvard measure a hospital that was like, you know, I’m being taught to mainly, diagnose, meet a patient meet somebody after they’re sick.
So was practicing sick care rather than healthcare, then give them a diagnosis and then put them on different pills that they have to take for the rest of their life. I felt that medicine has done a great job stabilizing us after we get sick. But I have but I didn’t feel that it was curing most of these patients. And I definitely felt bad meeting them after a heart attack after they get blood pressure, etc. And most importantly, I felt that I always had that question to my attendings.
It was like if the if this pill works, why they have to refill it every month, right? That was that was my biggest question is like, it’s a subscription forever for your blood pressure pill, it’s a subscription forever for your blood sugar pill. It’s a subscription forever for your cholesterol pill. In looking at that patient like I was, it’s not difficult to figure out what happened to him, he’s getting older, it’s difficult for him to get the weight off. He has more responsibility as a father now or as a mother.
And then he’s financially stressed and you gotta talk about his lifestyle have him go back to exercise to eating healthy, to sleeping better to, to cherish that love that family love. And this is what today’s lifestyle medicine that I’m cherishing so much and I’m a big part of so I decided to leave medicine after I graduated and go into health balls in public health did Harvard and Hopkins in it my goal was to reform healthcare systems to be more preventive, and to adopt lifestyle medicine.
In and I hit a bump there i i helped actually have a successful career helping you know, 10s of countries internationally and ministers of health, but the bump was always that prevention was never productized people love to consume they don’t love to hear the same thing over and over meaning you’re telling people as a preventive tool to exercise to eat healthy to stop smoking.
And everyone knows that like by today there’s no it’s no news to anyone that challenges and micro timing namely daily basis if I see a burger in front of me and a phrase and I’m hungry I’m gonna just be tempted right? If I’m tired after working nine hours and or 12 hours or 16 hours I’m not gonna go to the gym late at night. So how can we turn healthy behavior into a product and then that became my goal because then they can consume health we can all consume health and therefore stay healthy. In this is where I decided to to to learn how to develop health care products, and to launch them in and and I joined the biotech industry and learn that and then finally started looking for a true preventive slash
lifestyle medicine product that can keep us healthy for healthy longer and if we’re sick, given alternatives to the pill industry. And, and nutrition became my passion because it’s the only product we consume every day. From the day we’re born to the day we die, it must carry the biggest impact on our body, right? It’s the only thing you can think about it that we consume every day, every day of our life.
And I felt that the power of nutrition should go beyond I lose weight or not beyond eating gluten free or low carb, or it should be even healing, it should be a longevity track. And, and I was blessed and lucky to meet Professor Valter Longo. Many of you’re probably listeners have heard of that name. Valter is the leading figure in nutrition and longevity.
And he uses food as medicine and his research and fell in love with what he had, which is an approach to pharmaceutical approach to nutrition he was it took the long route, he took 25 years to do lab trials, mice trial, human trials on food, which no one has, in a sense of the many companies are few companies would have but in a sense of trying to reduce disease readmission, trying to help people live longer, and measure that rather than just build correlates or add some minerals, or just a better ingredient.
It was going for food formulations that can help people live healthier model or help them with their disease regression, and being the first and becoming the Buddhist medicine. So I fell in love with that mission. And then is the head of the longevity Institute at University of Southern California. He can have he and USC spin-off Nutra and invited me to come and become a CEO of a company. And it’s in this position that I’m talking to you today.
Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, listen, there’s so many bubbles that go off in my head that we could take sidetracks to and maybe part two and part three to the podcast. So I’ll ask a question in a succinct way. Without going too down that rabbit hole was one of the reasons that you decided to leave medicine and go into longevity and and food as medicine and adopting the pharmaceutical approach to food was that that wasn’t going to be a very short or very, I guess obstructed path or a path that wouldn’t have worked in the allopathic model, or do you feel that at some point that it’s going to be embraced?
I guess it’s a hard question to ask because it’s not it’s it’s a it’s a it’s a tough question to take on in terms of, there’s a way of practicing medicine, and that doesn’t involve certain tools and certain adjunctive approaches. So let me ask you just sort of, uh, without going too deep into that. Why did yeah, the I don’t know if you understand if there’s a question in there or not.
Joseph Antoun: But I love answering that was my, the core of my passion. Well, basically, if you think if you think about the the top four disease that will kill 90%, because 90% of us will die from either cardiovascular or diabetes, which is part of big cardiovascular, cancer, Alzheimer’s, and, you know, autoimmune, the natural term killers. These are the four or five conditions that 90% of us will die for. Now, what medicine myth is that actually, to a big extent, these conditions are related to lifestyle and aging. Medicine thought us and I went to the best medical schools, Madison thought, oh, there’s genetic predisposition, something goes wrong. And then you develop a disease.
Well, if you have the April EEG, you’re still not going to have time at his age. At age 20. You’re going to still have it at 75 and 80 and 85. At night. If your mother and father had cardiovascular disease, you’re not gonna die from atrial fibrillation at age 80. You can still do heart attack, say But at age 5570, etc. So, yes, of course genetics play a role. But in that was that’s very clear in diabetes. You look at the pictures of our ancestors in the 50s and 40s. And they were not obese. They were not dying out of diabetes at that time. So it’s genetics. Why didn’t they have diabetes, why they will not obese right now.
We look at many of us so many people, as 73% of us are overweight. And a lot of still healthcare professionals explain that with genetics where their parents their grandparents would not overweight. The grand grandparents were super skinny. Look at the pictures of the US villages in the US cities back in 19 2019. Fall in 1860. You don’t see fat people very rarely. So. So it became obvious to me that what matters sent told us Oh, there’s one pathway going wrong cholesterol increase because there’s a disease called hypercholesterolemia and it’s genetics. Well guess what, eight out of 10.
People with high cholesterol actually are overweight, it’s not genetics, they were overweight, they’re eating a healthy, unhealthy habit, and don’t exercise any longer. So it was clear, that is definitely a big role for medicine. But that also will be 20. And 30% of the care 60 70% of the care is solvable by slowing down aging. And we’re going to talk a lot about that, because that was my biggest aha moment. You know, even if we’re safe, if the biggest, the biggest reason for you to have a heart attack and or a cancer and or diabetes, and Alzheimer’s is actually your age. And number two is your lifestyle.
And then comes genetics and everything else. So so it’s clear, that meant that there’s a role for the pill industry and the pharmaceutical and I’m the big proponent of that. But it should not be 100% of sick care. It shouldn’t be 1020 30%, Max and 6070 80%, of a new healthcare model should be built on lifestyle medicine, meaning how can I slow down your biological age, because this is how it can happen. Even if you’re 60s, if your inner age is 50, you just gained 10 extra years before you hit your first heart attack, or before you hit your first Alzheimer’s etc. So how can I keep you healthier from the inside?
And how can I help you with your lifestyle, eat better exercise, stress less, sleep better. And then, and then increase your social capital and the love around you. And that became my passion. So my big aha moment was that a big chunk of what’s going to end up killing us one of these four diseases could be prevented or slowed down, or even remit. You know, by lifestyle medicine. My biggest example is diabetes. I love bringing up diabetes, right? So the idea is 90% of diabetes, you get it from overweight, there’s type one that is probably RMU, a little bit of genetics, okay, that’s the minority. And then you have the type two, and the biggest reason for type two is overweight.
So if somebody comes in and, and, and, and punches you on the head, every two seconds, how can you have a headache? What’s the solution? He said, stop punching me. If you go and exercise over over exercise, and you’re exhausted, what’s the solution? You say? Give me a rest stop the exercise. If somebody comes in over feeds you and now you have diabetes, what’s the solution?
Why this time is not stop stop eating or so that is suddenly the solution is insulin and metformin. Why in this case, we don’t take the trigger of the disease. And I see a lot of doctors and a lot of nutritionists say, Wow, you can reverse diabetes with food. I mean, that’s that’s the reason you have diabetes, the only solution or the best solution that I don’t want to be super limited. But the best solution for that abuse is by fasting and or eating healthy and or burning more fat with exercise.
That’s the solution for the abs. Now giving somebody insulin, which by the way, pushes sugar doesn’t vanish. Sugar doesn’t vanish from the blood, it goes to your cells, it gets stored into more fat, it increased more insulin resistance, and now you need more insulin. So most of the diabetic medicine we’ve had two today the accelerated disease that’s that’s that’s one of that’s that’s an important you know, thing to realize. You know, God bless that industry.
They’re trying to do their best with what what’s given, but it’s not it’s not. It’s not the fault of the farmer, like most people say ignore the fault of the doctors is the fault of a system that is accepted to just pay when it’s late and paid to just kick the ball forward. And I go back to health policy and public health we should go back and push lifestyle medicine which is happening today. A lot of reimbursement is coming for an attrition for programs that that really helped people conduct a much better life. They came very late after the financial crisis in healthcare. But that’s the way to move forward. And in this is what became my passion is how can we create this new discipline called Lifestyle Medicine?
Give every physician every nutritionist new tools to help with disease remission and regression if somebody has cancer I mean, can you imagine today? If God forbid, may God forbid if you have if your wife gets diagnosed tomorrow with breast cancer, there is no food regimen that she can use to improve her chances of regression from a disease we never we eat food every day. No one scientific company came and say what you should eat to help her remit from the from her cancer. If you have Alzheimer’s with like good luck. There’s no medicine for it. Sorry.
Your dad is is old, and now he has Alzheimer’s like what? What kind of answer is that? How can I feed his brain in a better way so that the normal cells overperform, so that the cells that started getting damaged, they tried to rejuvenate and stay healthier. So we never respected food enough as part of the disease mitigation or regression or remission or cure. And this is what the passion and the mission of our company we’re called L Neutre. L is for longevity through nutrition. And we are we are proud to be the first Nutri tech company like the biotech industry with a nutrient nutrition technology industry. We put we put evidence based scientific approach to discover what people should eat, if they have cancer, what they should eat, if they have Alzheimer’s, what they should eat the regress and remain diabetes. And if they’re healthy, what they should eat to stay healthy long. This is exactly my passion and the mission of our company.
Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, I mean, kudos to you and great summary of that. Of what my guess is that I obstacles and you just redefine. Usher, embraced it and scan doubt and fear to how to support a new movement for longevity medicine, sponsoring a 4am groups where I met you where you’re educating doctors, and ultimately driving policy change through leading by example, and creating the protocols and the outcomes and forcing the traditional allopathic approach to take notice and take heed versus continuing to knock on the door in the vehicle that you’re in and not making progress.
So kudos for you for doing that. I had the opportunity of meeting you at that a forum where you were offering a fasting certification, I was fascinated with the information. I will say as a as the traditional. As a chiropractic trained physician, we learned nutrition and the importance of food and lifestyle medicine in our curriculum. So it’s really nice to see the allopathic model. Embrace that now. And I’m excited to see where it’s headed. As far as I know, we have a lot of ground to make up on Aging, longevity healthspan.
As it relates to the people that that we work with, and you you painted the picture pretty well where the guy comes home after a nine hour day he’s got financial issues, not as or Messrs. Not as the IV is under constant stress. He’s not out in the environment, he’s not in the best diet, he has that burger and french fries in front of him. And that with identify as HPA axis, or an adrenal based fatigue issue, where they’ve been told that they shouldn’t moderate their their food or fast or go into time restricted eating windows or do long prolonged eating, because their blood sugar is unstable.
And they’ve got to eat multiple meals more frequently. So maybe we can get into the conversation of who’s it for? Why is it safe? How do you go about doing it? What are all the different tools that I should be considering and just you kind of being the expert that you are kind of run with the ball now that you that we’re going in this area?
Joseph Antoun: Yeah, thank you for mentioning that. I mean, you know, we’ve, when I went to med school, it was it was in the same time and nutrition schools. It was the the the the word on the street was eat five and six times a day, right small meals, and frequent eating, which which probably was was a disaster of a recommendation. And we see the results today, you know, obesity still increases then. And this is for many reasons.
I mean, the this is it’s important now to talk a little bit about nutrition and aging. In every time we eat, especially the carbs, the carbs increase insulin, right, that insulin, insulin gets secreted when you eat carbs, because it wants to move, you know carbs from the blood to the to the cell so that the cells use them. But it’s a growth factor. Everything that says growth, it means it’s a pro-aging. So if you grow forward, we grow by our challenge forward, we don’t grow backward with with incidence.
Same thing, and this is very important here is to talk about the role of protein as well because people think carbs are bad. Everything related to protein is good. That’s not true. Protein, like carbs, they are a pro-growth factor, these two, these two nutrients, they come to our body to nourish us and they’re We love them we go forward we, we grow when we have them. So we need insulin, insulin like growth factor, IGF one increases in It’s not by chance that is called insulin like growth factor. So it’s exactly like insulin, it pushes you to grow.
So the more frequently you’re eating, the more you’re spiking your more frequently to growth factors, insulin and IGF. And the more you are growing forward, meaning you’re aging in biological aging, I mean, people have to start thinking about biological aging completely separate than your age. That doesn’t matter today, if you’re 50, or 60, or 70. What matters is how old are you from the inside? What’s your biological age? And that’s, that’s huge.
And why is that huge, because, as we said, before, disease that will kill us, diabetes, cancer, cardiovascular and autoimmune. They actually, especially diabetes, cardiovascular, cancer, and neurodegenerative, they are actually perfectly age-related. You get your first heart attack at later stages in life, you get Alzheimer’s and dementia later stage of your life. And most cancers, some of the cancers younger we can talk about why the stimuli there but in most cases, all these disease and diabetes are get at a later stage in life.
So if there’s the best gift I can give you today, to stay healthy long and to ask for years to few healthy years to your life is to delay or reversing your biological age. And this is why we moved to fasting because this is one of the ways to do that. Versus eating all the time. Every time you eat. And guess what, as religiously eat six times a day is the bodybuilders today, right? Why? Because they have to grow talking and grow their muscle. In bodybuilders eat very high meat, protein, you know, concentrations within every meal they eat six times a day. And look what happens. Most bodybuilders actually lose around five to 10 years of their life. You have you ever seen a centenarian somebody who’s 100 years and above and said I was I used to be a bodybuilder I used to be Mr. Olympia. Unfortunately, we lost Ronnie Coleman at age 55.
We lose many of the of the big giants or the big ones. And really the giants who have they actually have an overstimulated natural overstimulation of IGF or growth hormone. So either by eating frequently per day, or by having a disease that secretes high IGF or growth hormone and both of these people, athletes and people with acromegaly, they actually have 10 years less than average in their lifestyle.
So this proves what I’m saying is that the more you spike, insulin, and IGF, the more you’re aging, the more you’re aging, the faster so you’ll be 60 chronologically, but you’re 70 biologically therefore you’re going to hit cancer, you’re going to hit Alzheimer’s, you’re going to hit diabetes, and this is how you’re going to induce shortivity rather than longevity. So this is critical for everyone today we did say hopefully we’re going to change somebody’s life.
Eating frequently every day probably is not a longevity a healthy longevity matter. The opposite. We are one of the we’re going to bring a lot of information today but one if I want one info to kind of be transmitted to your listeners is that always think about in the natural harmonized way of eating in lifestyle are we at the end of the day we as humans lived on planet Earth for hundreds of 1000s of years and we were culture when we evolve with nature and nature’s culture, cultures plus, in why we why we we started developing chronic disease faster the last 4050 years because we deviated from nature.
We started eating more frequently than we can handle we started exercising less than we started creating stresses of living in the cities and technology etc. We started like we started expressing less love and social capital because we’re away from our families. We’re getting divorced fast. So once we deviated from this harmonized way of how we used to live is where we started developing a lot of or accelerating aging in these chronic diseases. So every time somebody preaches you because every day you go on YouTube, they 600 theories about what you should eat how you should exercise, which is a Keto Is it is it all meat diet, always go back and say no to all of them say I’m gonna go back and eat what I’m supposed to eat. We as humans lived around the rivers all our life. Forget about the cavemen we slept in a cave so that we don’t get bit by an animal but there’s no food, no water in the cave. We lived around rivers.
Why? Because River is the water you can drink and without drinking water. There was essential and there were trees and grass so they were fruits and vegetables. And there’s what we ate plant based diet. It was easy to fish for She’s the only animal that cannot fly or run away, or it was very easy to fish. So we were having a pescetarian diet, we were eating a lot of plant based foods rich in lagoons and fruit and fruits, and then we were eating fish as a main source of protein. Then we develop hunting skills, and we started adding some red meat. So the longevity diet, if you want to eat the healthy diet for your longevity is literally a pescetarian slash flexitarian some red meat. And guess what, when the sun was done, we would sleep there was no TV no UberEATS so we were not eating overnight.
Up until the morning when we were up, if we have some food left overs, it will be like breakfast if not we go and search for food. So that’s why have hours of fasting overnight fasting was very important. It we call it the circadian fasting, right, our our it’s not just our brain that needs to sleep but also over in the gut, every organ in the body should not be indigestion in, in in absorbing sugar and protein during the night and going into fat. We should have an early meal and then sleep and stay 12 hours, 13 hours.
That’s the longevity of these 12 hours intermittent fasting pescatarian and a little bit of meat, which makes it you know, flexitarian a little bit more it will make it Mediterranean. And that’s a harmonized way to eat. To me, anything else is an artificial imposition to your body. Now, you might accept it if you have a health condition. So if you tell me, Hey, I have diabetes, my first first concern is not to live in extra 20 years in 20 years. My first concern is today to reverse diabetes.
Yeah, go on a low-carb diet, try ketogenic diet, try the fasting-mimicking diet. So then you have interventions that are dealing with a short term purpose. But if you’re healthy, you want to live healthy, long, intermittent fasting plus the longevity diet that I described, is the right formulation for that it’s not eating six or eight times a day.
Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, no, it’s a it’s a great overview of where we got to and I would add the light bulb as well, right, because that really messed up our circadian rhythm, and extended the seasons. And also just the the processing and the adulteration of our food quality, on top of all of that, so we have all these hurdles and obstacles that are growth factor, environmental stimuli on top of the food we eat, and makes it even more important to to balance the Yin with the Yang and that’s where cleansing, a tough energy clearing out removing and being able to harness the way inborn physiology has been has been evolving through the millennia.
So So I know there’s a lot so I guess with the fasting-mimicking diet, maybe you can talk about the different tools that that l nutrition teaches and and the utility or the value in each of them and and help someone that’s listening to this say, okay, I can I can accept what you’re telling me. How do I go about doing this?
Joseph Antoun: Yeah. So we as a company, we invested heavily into two tracks the longevity diet that we just described, meaning eating a clean, healthy longevity diet, we call it nutrition for longevity, it’s a full company under us. And, and nutrition for longevity, we deliver the food to you, one of the cleanest food we even on our farms, and it’s a longevity formulation. And it follows the American Heart American Diabetes Association food. So this is food for everyday that we can send you home.
And now, Medicare and Medicaid gave us a reimbursement code to be one of the first food as medicine companies. And within five months, we have 43 health insurances that signed us to pay for our food as medicine. So that’s that’s a huge if you want step forward for us into showing the world that we know how to formulate food that is healthy for you and payers are willing to pay for it. But the landmark discovery that we are known for is fasting and the fasting-mimicking technology.
And why is that so? So? So 25 years ago, our founder Professor Valter Longo, I recommend him you know, if you guys want to buy his book, which describes what I’m going to talk about, it’s called the longevity 2018 Amazon bestseller amazing book, but our founder discovered at USC, he’s the head of the longevity Institute at the University of Southern California.
So basically he and USC discovered that there’s two types of fasting. There is the first thing that I talked about 12 hours, 14 hours, 16 hours, which is It creates a calorie deficits in the body and therefore you lose weight, right or you balance your weight, if you fast for 12 hours, you’re balancing you eat over the day, during the day, you can if you don’t eat during the night, so, you know, calories in calories spent, You’re equal, it’s a good balance to go for 16 hours, maybe you’re losing a little bit more calories if you have some weight. So you go a little bit for that. But it’s still, it’s a weight balancing, it’s a calorie black balancing intermittent fasting followed.
What universalism California and now 18 other universities are researching is what happens if you go longer, what happens if you fast for two days, three days, four days, five days, and they discovered something very important, which is, once you’ve crossed the two, because they want to data, you have enough fat in your body to compensate for the deficit, the liver can help with their gluconeogenesis you have glycogen in the muscle.
So there’s, there’s enough money in the bank, credit card that you can use it the first two days where you know, using that analogy, once you cross the to the body is telling the cells Hey, I’m actually going bankrupt, I could not now breaking enough fat for you into ketones, I can no glycogen is getting depleted. And deliver reserves are being you know, used.
So now when in crisis mode, which happens for most people, not at 16 hours, like they think, not at 18 hours, but actually after two days of fasting. And this will be called prolonged fast. And the body tells the cells, Hey, you gotta start burning your intracellular sources of energy, organelles debris and start to rejuvenate. We have to survive. In order to survive, we have to be at our optimum.
And this is what’s called autophagy self eat and self renewal in the Japanese, in a researcher who discovered that that process are described not discovered, but described it in a biochemical formulation won the Nobel Prize in Medicine in 2016. For it, so it’s it’s a new chapter of fasting, which says if you fast for over two or three days, now it’s not only you’re losing weight, which is great, and improving your blood pressure and everything that happens there metabolically. But you’re engaging your cells and asking them to rejuvenate just the right the facts. This is where we come.
We were like, wow, this is a miracle of biology. The buddy can rejuvenate its own cells, which basically is a good healthy aging. Or from a biological age standpoint, it’s an amazing way that the body is fixing its own cells, right? It’s like you’re in the Formula One car race. And in all the longevity lifestyle you can do is to slow down the car. But if you take a pitstop, all the mechanics come in the wheels, they add more gas and oil and you rejuvenate it. And so for the first time we have discovered the biological rejuvenation in then we were like, Okay, if you’re healthy, this might help you maybe stay healthy long.
But if you’re sick with the body, tolerate that you’re diabetic, while you’re fasting with your body tolerate that you have cancer when you’re fasting or the body would find these diseases, because it’s a crisis mode. And the body’s telling the cells Hey, go fix yourself. And so we were very, very interested in starting to test fasting on disease remission. And we started doing this with very positive results in mice.
Then we went in humans, striking results in my say, you know, cancer rates cancer survivor, cancer cure rates in mice went to over 90% diabetes reversal in mice. So when to humans, and nobody can fast for three, four or five days, it was very difficult. Both USC and Mayo Clinic together, cannot recruit people too fast for four days. And it was a cancer drop. And therefore, the National Institute of Health stepped in and donated millions of dollars to us and to USC in order to develop the fasting-mimicking diet.
Meaning Can you nourish these patients? Can you develop a diet that people can eat? But the diet does not like? Remember insulin and IGF? The body recognizes food and goes off fasting When insulin is high, and IGF is high. Can you develop a very special food formula that you can eat? Insulin doesn’t spike IGF doesn’t spike. So from the endocrine perspective, from the total body perspective, the body is not sending signals or food and then at the cellular level. Can you develop that nutrition to go around the brain cells, the sensors, the food sensors of the cell, the pKa, the RAS and the Tor pathways, the three pathways tell the cell there’s food, can you go around these pathways can you not trigger them enough?
So, the concept of fasting with food for the fasting, mimicking diet is a concept where you’re eating. But physiologically at the cellular level, the cells are not recognizing the food, therefore, the pressure on the cell is still on. Therefore, the cells practice autophagy and rejuvenation, and therefore we give you the benefits of fasting while you’re eating while in food, and that, that that is probably one of the biggest discovery of nutrition in the century. And we were able to find over 300 patents globally on this discovery, in that we have over 40 patents fully issued on multiple health conditions with the fasting-mimicking nutrition.
Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, it’s awesome. So just being the nerd that I am, as far as how do we know with the research, that those nitrogen sensing pathways with the with the food that you you give your your research participants is actually not stimulating those three pathways? What are the objective ways to determine that that’s happening?
Joseph Antoun: So three, three ways we number one, you measure the fasting is so when the fasting for our audience, the most frequent regimen that we have with the fasting, mimicking diet is a five day, you know, fasting with food, nutrition, and a lot of people would recognize probably the prolonged brand, which is the product that we launched six years ago, it’s a five day food that you get, and, and you eat your food for five days, and your body will be fasting for five days. So how did we test that Poland mimics fasting, number one, we test IGF, IGF, BP, insulin and insulin secretion.
Because if you can get the same rates as water fast, and keep those in mitigation, you know that your body is not recognizing the food, then we test ketone bodies showing that ketone bodies keep growing up, and then we test flux of autophagy. And we test also, I don’t want to mention this as a claim. But we are interested in we did some sub cover testing of even a push on the stem cells, which is a very actually only happened at the very advanced stage of fasting where sometimes the body actually pushes younger cells. So I don’t want to talk in detail about this. We’re still in research about it, but that’s another avenue that we’re exploring in here. So these are the ways exactly like water fasting, we measure ketones increase, IGF, VP, IGF insulin, and autophagy flux. Right, okay.
Dr. Joel Rosen: And so as far as it makes perfect sense, because if we understand how important the growth like factors are on aging, and being able to harness the ability to detox and get into a toughie, G or clear out debris requires you to fast but Who on earth is going to be able to do it. And then being able to formulate a regimen where you’re still eating. And I did it actually, for the first time a couple of weeks ago, and I did fine with it.
And it was, it was, it was great. I guess one of the side questions I would ask you is, which you probably weren’t prepared for is, I know, there’s a psychological connection with food, I really feel. So what have you found in terms of the feedback that with each successive fast, because I’m set to do my next week, and I feel that there were a couple of holes for myself where I realized that oh, my gosh, when I wake up in the morning, I’m just going to crush whatever I because I’m so hungry, I need to eat or psychologically, my wife’s cooking, and I can smell it, and I’m already on the foods that I’m allowed to have, I already had my meal for the evening?
I’m gonna wake up in the morning, and I’m just gonna, I’m gonna break it, I’m gonna eat whatever I want and then wake up in the morning, I’m not hungry, right? Or I even got to day five. And I didn’t need the first bar in the morning. I just did it because I did it. There was a couple of aha, it’s like, oh, there’s, there’s a certain emotional, psychological connection. So maybe talk a little bit about that. I know, we weren’t prepared to talk about that. But that was one of my own. AHA is that I have and where does that come in? Or do you guys harness that as as educational information for people that are wanting to get some longevity and improvements with doing something like this?
Joseph Antoun: Yeah. What you just described is the number one benefit that people talk about when they do prolong is changing their relationship with food and creating this metabolic flexibility, right. So in this way, we talked about before the two days and after the day, so would you describe your hunger, your first year the pain so the first day is fine, you’re on the 1100 Calorie is the second day it becomes difficult, you’re depleting your, your liver, your glycogen, your, your fat.
And Day Three is the most difficult. You’re like, Hey, I’m going to just pop this right because this is where the crisis is now telling the cells, hey, is pushing ketone secretion, but it’s telling the cells, you should start doing autophagy. Therefore, you’re like, shit, something changed in my body, I’m becoming more resistant to all this. And number five, and day five, you’re like, I don’t even need to eat. And I feel euphoric. And I feel full of energy, and I had the best sleep of my life.
And I feel so autonomous. And this is where you’re cruising on ketones and autophagy. And on cells, using the intracellular energy and rejuvenating in this way you feel strong. Now they six you go and you go back to your food, more protein coming to your body, more carbs, you’re feeding these cells that are being renewed and you feel on day 678, like the best three days of your life, you feel like something happened to my body, and renewed, I have better mental clarity, the brain fog, my performance, my relationship with food, I don’t need the pizza, big pizza, I don’t need the late night snack, in that journey of transformation is, as you said is physical, emotional, and even mental.
And it’s very important. The first cycle is the most difficult one when you do the first problem box, because for 99% of us is the first time ever, we’re going to trip we’re going to move from a carb consuming body to a ketone consuming body. It’s like going to the gym for the first time or playing a big basketball game. After being off the court for three months, you get to feel the pain of it.
The next week, you go there, you feel much less pain, and then afterward, there’s no pain. So next Brahma box would be much easier because your buddy learned at least once had to move from carbs to ketones, and you understand the journey. And the third one is much easier and easier and easier. I’ve done over 20 Now, it for me is like a very metabolically very flexible, so I switch much easier than other people. And it’s still less of a painful journey for me.
But it’s always good this first time to feel like wow, I can live on much less food, my brain, I never felt my brain was so locked and foggy and the clarity and the performance. And once you unlock this, the horizon in a field, the rejuvenation. It’s powerful. Fasting impacts every cell of your body, we just finished a clinical trial on the skin, and we’re showing the benefits of Rolawn on skin glowing skin radiance skin. So it’s the first nutrition that’s showing you in five days. And we also did three cycles. So 15 days, we do problem just once a month, just five days a month that liquidity clarify this for our audience.
This is not a diet for every day, this is just five days a month, and you can do it. Even you know, once every quarter is just three times a month, for three times a year or four times a year. That’s all that you need. This is the first time from the CEO telling you don’t do my diet every week. Or subscribe so that you get it every week. It’s three times a year. Now if you’re overweight, you know.
And there’s more way to say you can do it four times or more. But all what I’m asking people is this like the car racing, you take the pitstop twice in the race, you don’t take it every two minutes, or every two laps in fastening is the same thing. You need a deeper fast, prolonged fast with prolonged probably 234 times a year. And that’s it. It’s a stellar rejuvenation exercise. It keeps you with about flexible, it takes it to that pitstop the mechanics come they fix what they need to fix, and they set you back, you know stronger and better into the race.
Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, no, that’s great. And you have a new relationship with food. And I think even some of the other invisible benefits is you’re resetting some of the microbiome diversity or you’re calling the herd, if you will, and you’re strengthening up the mitochondrial health or your body’s ability to make energy more effectively. As far as I know that you also with with the certification course you which you are very objective about it and and being able to present okay, there’s there’s variations in the way that we do this.
So some people might be saying, well, I do A a 16 eight, or I do a five two where there are two days of the week where I don’t do any food whatsoever, or I do one or two days, or there’s the prolonged fast with a fasting-mimicking diet. So can you speak about are they or are they you? Are they synonymous or like as is one the same as the other or is there a benefit to doing one and having different tools in your toolkit?
I guess from a personal standpoint and a company standpoint, what are you? What is the company suggesting, or the education that you train to have as many tools in the toolkit? Well, I’d like to get your feedback on that.
Joseph Antoun: No, I think during clarify, I think you should do prolong three times a year. Again, you can do a two to three, if you have a health or a way to reason you can do more frequently. But um, this is don’t take this as prescriptive because each person is different. And I cannot generalize to everyone. I do this four times a year. And then a lot of people say what to do in between, right, you inspired me to five days of roll on there long enough to induce a change in the short enough for everyone to complete and be inspired and say what to do next.
And some people they just want to eat healthy after that’s the longevity diet. This is our nutrition for longevity as well. We created a full pipeline of healthy nutrition that you can deliver at your door called nutrition for longevity. This is the one that we talked about that now Medicare, Medicaid and 43 insurances are reimbursing.
If you want to continue with fasting, you can do intermittent fasting, intermittent fasting is either 16 hours a day 12 to 16, we recommend 12. If you don’t want to use any food, if you want to go all the way to 16, we do have a fast bar, if you want to eat a bar in the morning, it is clinically tested to be equal to water fast. If you want to read that article, we published it, the nutrients are one of the top nutrition journal about the fast bar that you can eat in the morning and your body doesn’t even know you’re eating.
So you would have the same ketones and the same blood sugar as a water fast. And why we develop the fast bar because we understand the folks who want to go on 16 hours a fast from the weight standpoint and the calorie balance standpoint. But remember that your brain is without food for 16 hours, and your heart that needs to pump your kidneys.
So there are essential organs that have to function in probably this way, all the way because there’s a high-calorie demand in the morning, you’re going to work you’re thinking you’re working your muscle is moving. So when you skip breakfast, of course, you lose a little bit of weight and you feel that hunger binge after the fast part is there to keep nourishing your essential organs into to induce less of a binge eating afterward, a lot of the trials on the 16 hours of fasting, they’re not very conclusive because a lot of people stay 16 hours and then they go and they binge eat and they binge eat actually and they eat late at night.
And that counterbalances the positive. So the first one is there to help. And then for those that you talked about what to do, they have fast. Some people practice the five to meaning for seven days a week, they do five days of normal eating and two days of fasting. Same argument. You know, we’re not a big proponent of waterfront because you don’t want to deplete the essential organs of the body. So we have a product called the prolonged reset that you can consume its food that you eat the entire day during your fasting days. And it nourishes your organs while keeping the cells in fasting mode.
And that’s the entire purpose of our company. And again, we were a water fasting company, the National Institute of Health at the University of Southern California helped us to develop the fasting-mimicking technology, which is helping people go on a longer fast you want to do 16 hours, okay, eat something though. You want to do one day a fast eat something because you don’t want to deplete your essential organs.
Now you want to do the most important five days fast, which is a rejuvenated fast, all the other fats are more to lose weight or, or for metabolic health, which is great. But if you want to have the cells participate and rejuvenate, which is probably the big gold standard of fasting, definitely you need to do the fasting-mimicking diet to do it in a safe and compliant way over the five days period.
Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, I agree. I think that with the studies that are showing 88% of people are metabolically unhealthy. And I explain to people that you’re not combining the food you eat and the air you breathe, to produce ATP and water and you’re not using oxygen for you. You’re using oxygen against you. And so many people have spent so much money they spend so much time on their own. They go from doctor to doctor, and they have every Santa Claus bag of supplements in their pantry. And they look at me and they say well, what are you going to tell me that I already haven’t done?
And I pretty much hunch? Well, 99% certain they haven’t done this. And it’s a tool that they need to do if you think about how our body has been engineered over like you’ve pointed out over the millennia to have feast and famine and to be able to realize that that is a therapeutic way for or just a way that our body has been engineered for, for longevity.
So kudos to you for doing this, and thank you for your time and for being here. As far as it’s exciting for me to hear about the nutritional for longevity, especially with the third parties coming on board because I think that’s the momentum that we want to see where they’re incentivized to give people support for longevity and realizing that that’s a win-win, where their premiums can can go down, because they’re not paying out so much money and their pay, I thought that something like that, at some point has to happen for us to have policy changes, and I can see where your, your your policy and public health has come into play and how you’re monetizing in terms of approaching it from a pharmaceutical approach. So I really appreciate everything that you’ve done, and you continue to do.
Before I get to my last question, what forecasting with the the company and our mutual What do you see in terms of additional healthspan? Because that’s the term now it’s like, we don’t want to just increase your longevity, we want to increase your healthy longevity, where do you see l nutria. Maybe having tangential other types of information and or services or products to align with that just as a curiosity?
Joseph Antoun: Well, the most exciting for me is coming next, which is the end of this year, we’re going to launch our diabetes remission and regression program. That’s a program that is coordinated between nutritionist, our fasting, mimicking nutrition and nutrition for longevity. And we just published last week an article on diabetic kidney rejuvenation, where we just finished a trial on diabetes remission and aggression. So we’re putting those together. And we’re gonna launch a diabetes readmission reduction program driven by nutrition, which is amazing for us, again, diabetes is my passion, diabetes and cancer are my passion. And I couldn’t believe that there’s no nutritional product that is here to help people with diabetes, why the disease is in nutrition, disease, nutritional disease, up to 80% of the times.
And lung cancer was always fascinated that if you have cancer, you say, well, you get to do chemotherapy or hormone therapy or immune therapy. And that’s it. And how about nutrition? How about the nutrition? Oh, yeah, you eat healthily. And yeah, if you want to exercise a little bit, that’s not what medicine shouldn’t be about. medicine should be about, well, you have this type of cancer, you should eat this type of food to increase your chances. And, and we’ve published four articles on cancer, with the fasting-mimicking technology last year, and three of them are in nature, the number one sign Journal, the word.
So we are thinking next year about launching a program in nutrition for cancer program as well follow after that, in addition, for autoimmune, for autoimmune. So pretty exciting. Next 12 months for us. We’re getting all these 25 years of clinical trials, they were going to harvest their results, and last nutritional program to help people with certain health conditions.
Dr. Joel Rosen: Oh, it’s great. And I think that was one of my big takeaways from the A for him in that as the way I was trained, I was already familiar with a lot of what I almost assumed to be common sense information, right, like in terms of natural approaches with food and lifestyle.
But what’s nice is the way that it’s been approached from validating through scientific studies and approaching it like the pharmaceutical model, and ultimately hoping that that impacts the way that health care is practiced and, and being able to empower people to get their health back because where we’re headed now if we don’t have someone to intervene with the tidal wave of the tsunami of what’s going to happen with diabetes trajectory, if we don’t stand in now, it’s gonna be very crippling.
So it’s very timely. Thank you for doing this. I always have a question at the end, knowing what you know now, about health and you did follow your passion. It’s not like you just sort of spun your wheels for many years and were frustrated. You saw the writing on the wall, you’re a forward thinker. Is there anything that you would have done differently knowing what you know, now maybe for your health or a loved one or just the culture in general, around healthcare, and I mean, it’s a lot proven in your product, but anything else that we didn’t talk about that you wish you would have known sooner?
Joseph Antoun: I think yes, I think the notion of the notion of biological age and the notion of aging from food Here’s something that I only discovered like 10 years ago. For me, it was, you know, mostly calories and losing weight, gaining weight, muscle if you want to eat more protein, etc. I never thought about food as an accelerator or decelerator of my biological age.
And I never thought about my biological age being the most important determinant of which of my deaths actually, through either cancer or Alzheimer’s or diabetes, or cardiovascular disease. When I went to med school, we treat each one of these diseases fully separate. We have different specialties, we have different tracks, we think each one is a completely different system, different etiology, different treat like it was never, I never learned in allopathic medicine, that it’s all about aging in biological aid in nutrition is a big part of that, in it, how to use all this to increase my chances to stay healthy long, rather than just focused on okay, if you’re sick with this if you have a cardiovascular issue, which pill you would take, I feel this should be the last resource in there’s a big role for current medicine to play. And again, it’s not the full role though, we got to bring longevity medicine and lifestyle medicine to it.
Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, I mean, that’s, it’s great. And I foresee some obstacles along the way. But at the end of the day, I think the truth rises to the top when you circumvent it and you empower people with what you’re doing, which is amazing. One of the things going back to the bodybuilder didn’t know Ronnie Coleman had died. Thank you, for telling me. I didn’t know that.
But what I was gonna say is, that I do feel that they were the original biohackers in the sense that they understood periodization growth and cutting, they just took it too far. But I think that that are that a lot of the tenants and fasting mimicking, from refueling from growth factors depending on where you are in the lifecycle when you’re wanting to build and strengthen and load the bone and build mineral density to when you’re older. And you’re you need to put more emphasis on cleansing and clearing out.
But if you think about the diner or the circadian rhythm, you think about the monthly rhythm, you think about the seasonal rhythm, and you think about just how we go through plenty and we go through lack, our body’s really engineered for that. And it’s not just one magic pill to fix the ill. And it’s not just set it and forget it either. It’s a lot of moving parts and realizing that our body’s amazing, we have to give it both the yin and the yang so that it can be able to function at full capacity. And I just want to thank you for taking the time. And being here today, I will post links to be able to where they can access getting some of these these products that that you’re promoting. And I’m excited to see what Al Nusrah has in store with the clinical trials of diabetes and cancer. Any last words of wisdom that you can share with our listener?
Joseph Antoun: Again, think about the five pillars of thing healthy long, the health plan pillars, nutrition, exercise, stress, sleep, and probably the one that competes on number one most impactful with nutrition is the social capital, receiving and giving love, your family, your serenity, your yoga, your meditation, your self-love, your self-appreciation, Your precious purposefulness, all these It seems they can’t equal to nutrition and they compete as the best way to live healthy long we studied people who live 100 and beyond the centenarians. And guess what some of them eat healthy, some of them don’t.
Some of them smoke, drink, and eat bacon. And they all have is they live in their village that happy with their family and they might have a big smile every day of their life. So what I wish everyone here today is hopefully you learned a couple of things that are going to change your life. And the third thing that gonna change your life is to keep that smile and optimism and purposefulness it’s going to bring you positive energy and healthy longevity.
Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah. Thanks for that last little piece. I appreciate your time and I look forward to probably Part Two somewhere down the road. And I wish you nothing but future success and endeavors with everything that you’re doing.
Joseph Antoun: Thank you very, very much.
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