Blood Sugar Coach Reveals Strategies to Adopt That Balance Your Blood Sugar Every Time

Dr. Joel Rosen: All right. Hello, everyone. And welcome back to another edition of the truth about your health where we teach exhausted and burnt-out adults the truth about their health so that they can get their health back quickly. And I was joined here by a special guest, Danielle Hamilton, who I had the opportunity of meeting at the metabolic health summit. And she’s been on a journey where she originally saw 14 doctors in one single year and realized that she was sick of sick and tired of being sick and tired.

And she ended up learning how to get her body back and she went through the nutritional therapy Practitioner program. And now she is the blood sugar specialist, and I hope to get all of the nooks and crannies out of her today. So Danielle, thank you so much for being here today.

 

Danielle Hamilton: Thanks for having me. I’m so excited to connect again. It was so nice meeting you at MHS.

 

Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, it was, and, uh, you know, we still have some unfinished business because you were telling me about some of your, you know, maybe some of your continuation of not being at 100% Perfect Health and but anyways, we’ll get there. So why don’t you take us back through your journey and why you got into the area that you did?

 

Danielle Hamilton: Yeah, you’ll maybe understand a little why about why I have you know, have to dig myself out of a lot as I’m sure a lot of your listeners do because we don’t grow up eating, you know, these perfect diets, and then we just have this one indiscretion and it’s my life I grew up on processed breakfast carbohydrates. And I always said that I had a sweet tooth, I would go to a barbecue and eat the bun with ketchup but not not the burger.

 

And it’s just I had a lot of colds and sicknesses, ear infections, flu, lots of rounds of antibiotics, and lots of strep throat. When I got to my senior year in high school, I had strep throat six times a year and had to get my tonsils out. The next year I developed allergies, you kind of removed that one piece of the immune system, and you know, things went awry, I was eating worse, drinking more alcohol, staying up late, and stressed out. So that created to set the stage for a messed up gut, I had tons of allergies. I had asthma, I was needing to be on allergy and asthma medications. I moved down to Miami, Florida for graduate school.

And there as you know, the season is year-round for allergies. I was allergic to palm trees as it turns out. And so I was getting so many allergy shots because my allergies were just out of control even with the medications. And so I had to get five shots because I was allergic to so many things. I was giving myself five shots in the stomach every other day because long story that I won’t go into but they allowed sort of a nurse to give me the shots. And then I asked the nurse to teach me how to do it.

So I was doing it myself. Not legal. But I was still suffering so much. And I was developing more and more allergies because I wasn’t healing the root cause I was having sinus infections. I’m like, I’m in my early 20s. What the heck is happening to me? No doctor could answer why it was happening. It was just kind of like, oh, this is kind of bad luck, or, you know, oh, just the card you were dealt in life. And it didn’t sit well with me. I just kept asking why. And I didn’t feel like it was enough of an answer that sort of satisfied that question. And at the time, I was working as a speech pathologist in a skilled nursing facility.

And I saw all of my clients of my patients back then had tons of diagnoses, we had to do all the chart reviews and write down all their diagnoses, write down all their medications. That was the longest part of my job writing down these long lists. And so I was looking at them and all their medications, I was looking at me and all my prescription medications. And I was like, oh my goodness, what’s gonna happen to me when I’m their age, you know, my 70s 80s I’m gonna end up exactly like this. Maybe worse.

Because I’m already on all of these now, I came across the book, The Paleo Diet Solution by Rob Wolf. And basically, it just flipped everything I knew on its head, I learned to embrace fat, embrace salt, and get rid of processed foods. And so I did the opposite of what I had been taught and what I had been doing my whole life. And it was like magic. My gut must have healed and I got rid of the allergy shots. I never was allergic to anything anymore. No asthma, no sinus infections, no other infections, and things that I was dealing with. And it was I wanted to shout it from the rooftops.

It was amazing. And I saw the true healing power of food. So I had a stressful year, the next year, and all of a sudden I started I was still eating paleo, and I started to gain weight I started to have I always had some acne, but now it was like all the time. It was cystic acne. It was all over my face in different places. It never was before like my cheeks and I lost my period. And I was fatigued. I would sleep all morning and I was always an early riser. And I would sleep until like 10 or 11 am. So a lot of these symptoms of classic, you know, adrenal fatigue that we hear about, and I was like, Oh, my goodness, they’re what’s happening. Something is happening to my hormones.

So I kind of figured out that through Google searches that I had the polycystic ovarian syndrome. So everything that I was doing everything online that I read to fix PCOS, was don’t have gluten, don’t have dairy don’t have refined sugar. And I said, check, check, check. I am doing all those things. So I might as well just paleo harder. And, because nothing changed, nothing changed. I was frustrated, I was struggling, and I felt helpless and hopeless.

And so I ended up going to a mainstream doctor to just try to get on some medication to feel a little bit better. Maybe I just needed a little bridge to get me there something. So I told the doctor, look, I can’t lose weight no matter what I do. I think I have PCOS. And he said you do have PCOS. You have to lose weight. There’s no cure, and you have to take the pill. Like, oh, great advice, Doc. So I walked out of there ripped up the script, and I was extra motivated to fix it myself. So I still struggled and couldn’t find what I was, you know, I was trying to affect all the sex hormones, the testosterone and estrogen and progesterone that are affected with PCOS. And I just was never making a dent in it. Until one day I heard a podcast that said PCOS is the diabetes of the ovaries and I almost drove my car off of the Florida Turnpike.

I was driving at the time. And I just I was like, Oh my goodness. Are you serious? What? Wait. Diabetes has something to do with blood sugar. But I don’t know what that’s all I knew about it. I knew something about that something about amputations because I had seen a lot of diabetic patients, you know, as a speech therapist. So that was all I knew about diabetes. That was all I knew about blood sugar. And this is coming from a person who had done a ton of research and works on her health. And it was like, wow, I know nothing about this. I always skip those chapters on blood sugar. I thought it didn’t apply to me because I wasn’t diabetic. So going back, I sort of reflected Okay, let’s start learning about blood sugar.

So I looked at my old labs, my blood sugar when I would get lab work at that time for PCLs was 60, which is pretty hypoglycemic. And I remember feeling dizzy, shaky, and lightheaded. As I stepped back, I almost passed out. Honestly, one time, I had this like, step back moment where I was like, Oh, my goodness, this is crazy. This is why I need to eat in the morning. I just thought I was a breakfast person. It was a person who just liked to eat when they got up. I didn’t know what that meant.

I didn’t know 60 was bad. Because no one told me anything. None of the doctors said boo about my blood sugar being at 60. They’re like, Oh, great. It’s under 100. It’s really under 100. That’s perfect. But I didn’t feel well at that number. Some people can but not me at that point. So then I looked back and I was like, oh, maybe this is why I always need to eat as soon as I wake up, maybe this is why I shake after having coffee. Maybe this is why I don’t say I have one sweet tooth but I have all sweet teeth. Maybe this is why I have to eat before I go out to eat because I can’t tolerate any sort of delay in being I can’t tolerate hunger.

It doesn’t feel good in my body. And this was also why I was that girl who had the granola bar in her purse. I always carried food with me wherever I went. Because I couldn’t tolerate hunger. Because my hunger was not hunger. It was a blood sugar crash or starting that blood sugar decline. And once I recognized how to fix that, I got rid of the blood sugar issues. I got rid of the PCOS, and here I am today.

 

Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, well, thanks for taking us down the stroke of memory lane. Success leaves clues. And I liked the idea of not stopping especially when you had the epiphany with the Paleo book and then realized well, I’m just trading all of these medications that I was concerned about 70 years later for a whole slew of other problems making you realize that something’s being missed, or I’m not addressing or extinguishing the Ember, that’s still smoldering.

And I guess the question that I would have, and then obviously learning the role that blood sugar plays with that and how blood sugar in your case was low. And you needed to have several meals to make sure that you didn’t get a quote-unquote hangry. As far one of the things that I would like to know based on just looking back at it now and with the clientele that you worked with.

One of the questions I did a recent survey on the people that I work with, Hey, what’s your number one challenge as it relates to adrenal fatigue and some of the repeated questions I’m getting Danielle is what Why do I have this, and it makes me frustrated that they don’t know why they have it. Because at the end of the day, it’s not a shock. Like, I’ll give you an example. In my first year of graduate undergraduate college, I was away from home for the first time, 19 years old, and played for the varsity soccer team, going to class was an elective, you know, like going to the bar was required. And I remember having an exam.

And like we had like, say, Monday, Wednesday, Monday, Wednesday, Friday classes, and I needed to have all the notes, and I remember having Monday’s and maybe Friday of the next week, and I did well on the notes that I had, but I didn’t do well in the ones that I didn’t do. And it wasn’t a concern, it would be like me saying, I don’t understand why I’m doing so poorly on these tests.

And really, it’s that accountability in terms of like, no shit, like, I mean, you got to study all the material to do well, you know, like, are you mean, like, I can’t go to the barbecues and just have a bun with ketchup on it. You know, like, so we’re at because a lot of the times we get mad, right? We get mad at the doctors as they told me 60 was fine. They told me that all I need to, I can never fix this, while they give us bad information, where along your journey and with the people that you see, do you find that being a major problem of like, you gotta look in the mirror to like, give yourself like, Oh, I love you. And I’ll be your most supporting person. But I’ll also like, to put the mirror in front of you to take accountability. Where do you say that comes in for you and for the people that you work with?

 

Danielle Hamilton: That’s a great question. And a great sort of reflection exercise, if you will. One of the things that I think just overall is that as a society, we’re just so disconnected from how humans are supposed not supposed to live, but how we evolved and what we need as a species. So we know that like a cat needs to eat a carnivore diet, and they need to hunt and like, we know the needs of certain animals like you go to a zoo. And if they’re not doing that, they’re like sitting in the corner shaking. It’s like, we need a species-appropriate diet, we need a species-appropriate lifestyle, and our modern lifestyle, and also all the propaganda, all the information that we’re getting is, so it’s disconnecting us so much from who we truly are as a species and what makes us healthy.

So those things include things like being in nature, not always being in front of these lights in front of screens connected surrounded by Wi-Fi surrounded by toxins, always on connected. eating processed foods like I might journey started when I let my interest in nutrition started when I learned and this was in my 20s when I was suffering from allergies, I learned that onions had vitamins and minerals. I know this is the weirdest thing. But so I was in a conversation with a friend. And I looked up and like oh my gosh, onions have vitamins and minerals. I didn’t know I was the processed food kid.

I didn’t know because it didn’t have a nutrition label on it. I just thought that the nutrition came from the ones with the labels and like, you know, life cereal, I’d be like reading the ingredients and the nutrition facts when I’d be eating this, you know, sitting with the cereal box. And so I realized how disconnected I was we don’t grow up knowing like what needs to go into the soil, all these things. So we’re just so disconnected that we think that Oh, well. I said no to the fries. And I got a salad with my burger. And I asked for whole wheat bread instead of regular bread. And I got, you know, a granola bar instead of a Twix bar. And we think we’re making all these sacrifices. So we think why aren’t I healthier?

So I think that where we’re taught what we’re taught is healthy. And so the proceeds and the actual sacrifices that we’re making, to try to be healthier. There. It’s the wrong information we’re given. We’re constantly given the wrong information. And we’re not told these things that move the needle forward. So we’re doing all this work. And we’re like, on a treadmill. We’re just staying in the same place because the whole wheat cracker is not any better than the saltine cracker.

It’s just not better. It’s not better for you. It’s not going to move the needle forward. Right? So I think that we’re, we’re and then we’re looking around or seeing other people were like, how come they can do this? How come they can stay up and eat all this junk? And you know, my husband doesn’t gain weight but I do and this person, it’s like, but we don’t know what’s going on metabolically with all these people. When I had those allergies. I was the thinnest I’ve ever been in my life. I was also partying a ton. I lived in Miami, you know I was like grad school was easy and I and I were partying and drinking And who knows what else and I was the skinniest I ever was in my life, and also the sickest.

So what’s happening on the outside? So I feel like this all leads up to, why is this happening. I’m doing what they told they told me to eat three meals and three snacks. They told me to eat, you know, they told me to stay away from fat. So we have all these terrible, this terrible advice. So I feel like yes, there is some disconnect on a personal level of like, hey, we need to take an inventory of what we’re doing. Like, is it really good? I think there’s that personal responsibility. But I think it’s also so hard to see, with all the information they give us and our lived experience. So I think that it’s, you know, it’s easy to be confused and to wonder that so that’s my take.

 

Dr. Joel Rosen: No, I think it’s a great answer. I mean, I think that in the instance that I gave you if someone asked me to look back at what you’re doing, and not studying all the notes, do you expect to do well, I would have been honest with myself and like, No, not really. Whereas you don’t know any better. And especially our parents should have the responsibility of teaching us proper health and nutrition.

And they should have the tools to be able to do that where all the food that they get, especially for growing up in a single family, divorce family, very similar to where you were where cereals, and processed food and Kraft dinner and all those things where your parents think they’re doing the right thing for you as well when really, those are all adulterated foods and you think you’re being so I agree with you. I think that it’s not knowing, and it’s just not knowing what you don’t know.

And I think that if someone really like sat down with you like sort of like Ebony’s attorneys, Ebenezer Scrooge, and had you look at the Christmases of yes, the year, and you look back and like now, now, you know, Danielle, do you think like this is the healthiest thing compared to? You would probably not know. Or you would probably like think Yeah, that’s right. But until then, you have all these aha’s along the way, and you start tripping over the sacred cow. So I’d love to continue that journey in terms of the additional sacred cow. So now in terms, you realize that PCOS is the diabetes of the ovaries? I skip those chapters because it doesn’t apply to me, but maybe it does. So take us through there now.

 

Danielle Hamilton: Yeah, so blood sugar affects every single cell organ and process in the body. So once I started diving into blood sugar, I realized that all these seemingly unrelated symptoms were the tying Link was the blood sugar and insulin stuff. So blood sugar and insulin are connected, we’ve maybe we could just talk about that first. So that when we eat carbohydrates, and also protein, the sugar gets digested raising the amount of sugar in our blood. And then the pancreas gets that signal that the blood sugar is elevating, and it secretes this hormone called insulin.

An insulin’s job is to escort the sugar into the cells of the body so that it can be used to make energy or to be stored later as body fat. And so insulin is very important. But what happens when we’re spiking our blood sugar all the time, which becomes the problem, these blood sugar spikes are really what is causing the problem. So we’re like, what’s the problem with blood sugar, we need the sugar. The trouble comes from the spikes when it goes up too high and stays elevated too long, or when it goes up too fast. Or when it goes up too often, if we’re constantly spiking our blood sugar, because they’re telling us to eat three meals and three snacks.

And we’re just grabbing this, we’re you know, preparing something throwing a little bit in our mouth, all day long. Oh, and then we have coffee. And we have energy drinks and a little bit of this, oh, there’s a doughnut in the break room. Like we’re just nonstop. There are things in our mouths constantly. So we’re not eating just three meals and three snacks. There are some studies out there that we Americans eat something like 28 times a day. I mean, we’re eating many, many, many times a day.

And so we’re spiking our blood sugar constantly, and the insulin just keeps going up. And it takes longer than the blood sugar does to come down. So over time, this insulin just keeps rising and rising and rising and rising. And we start to develop insulin resistance. So basically, we need more and more insulin to do the job because the body’s kind of ignoring it.

Now it’s not as sensitive to the signal. So we have these elevating levels of insulin, and now the blood sugar might come down because we have so much insulin. And so that was me my blood sugar was coming down. There’s also always an adrenal component when there’s this hypoglycemia. Even one incidence of a hypoglycemic episode is enough to indicate the presence of some sort of adrenal dysfunction. And then, on the other hand, some people never go to where their blood sugar is going down.

They just see their blood sugar start rising. And so the blood sugar, the fasting blood sugars, rise over time and the more dysregulated the blood sugar, so the more the highs and the lows, the more time we spend in those low numbers, the more time we spend in the high numbers, the more diffuse and the more intense the effects of the blood sugar dysregulation becomes. So early signs of blood sugar issues might just be if like a meal is delayed, or when you wake up if you have too fast for blood work, or you know, the meeting goes late at work and you’re like, Oh, why am I so hungry.

So, what you might notice at these early stages are that I experienced dizziness shakiness, lightheaded, feeling hangry, brain fog, difficulty concentrating, anxiety, heart palpitations, sweating, nausea, and then carbohydrate cravings. Because what’s happening is the body is perceiving that the energy is going away. It’s like, oh, we’re running out of energy. So it’s kind of like sends on the gas light in the car, it’s like, energy is getting low, I feel it going down.

So it’s going to turn on that gas light, it’s going to send you these symptoms so that you go get something to eat. And it’s not going to be a beautiful ribeye with some organic broccoli. No, it’s going to be like, go get a Red Bull from the gas station or go grab, you know, a bar or something like that. So then you eat again, and it spikes your blood sugar again. So it puts us on this blood sugar roller coaster. So as we progress in that we have symptoms from head to toe, so we know diabetes is being called Alzheimer’s is called diabetes.

Type three, we know that we get there are a lot of neurological issues associated with blood sugar and dysregulation, insulin resistance, and diabetes. So things like epilepsy and seizures, and all sorts of mood disorders, migraines. And then once we get into the eyes, macular degeneration, we know sugar causes issues in the mouth, we know it causes issues on the skin, and we know that insulin resistance causes hypertension and heart disease. And we know that as we get into the stomach and the gut and the gallbladder how insulin resistance is affecting all the motility in there, the sugar is impacting the gut bacteria, it’s impacting the adrenals. The adrenals don’t like these highs and lows and blood sugar, because it’s stressful when the blood sugar goes low.

And we run out of glycogen or we can’t access that glycogen, which is stored blood sugar in the liver, then, because we have too much insulin, the adrenals are needed to pump up that blood sugar. And that’s a very expensive process and drains them further over time. So people who are having these big swings in blood sugar end up having dysfunctional adrenals because maybe they’re sort of hyperfunctioning Because it’s like, oh, geez, here it comes.

Or it’s like they’re just out there out of fuel there guessed because they’ve had to just do this job of they’re like the backup generator having to bump up the blood sugar all the time. We know that blood sugar affects the kidneys. Diabetes is the number one cause of kidney failure or kidney disease. And then fertility is a big one. In both men and women, PCOS is it’s occurring in about 10 to 20% of women, it’s the leading cause of infertility.

So these things and then, of course, you know, amputations on the legs, skin issues, energy mood, like it affects everything in our body. And then the symptoms just get worse and worse. So we start to have worse cholesterol numbers for blood sugar numbers. So this is the sort of progression. And then once you get to a certain number, they just label it prediabetes they label it diabetes. But all the while it’s the same thing. It’s the same spectrum. So we’re always on the spectrum. It’s like we want to get to this optimal level that some of us only have when we’re born. But then some of us are formula fed and it’s all over from there.

Like you’d start to get the blood sugar dysregulation almost immediately. And it just gets worse and worse and worse. And then they just label it pre-diabetes and diabetes, but nothing’s changed too much. And then maybe your pancreas gives out and then you know you’re insulin-dependent, but it’s just a spectrum. It’s not an on and off switch, like type one diabetes, which is autoimmune. So I hope that information was helpful.

 

Dr. Joel Rosen: Oh, it’s great. And then just to follow up on what you’re saying, there’s not a lot of constructive information about what to do about it change your diet, eat fewer carbs, or get on Metformin, get on insulin or get on some kind of medication. And by the time you’re failing the grade, you’re not addressing the shades of gray have the C pluses and the D minuses and stuff like that. So as far as the only other thing I would add is that I find a lot of the time which I’m sure you do as well, where people are super stressed and they’re releasing cortisol, and then that cortisol causes that insulin resistance as well.

Right so now you have that double whammy where that person is not Probably only isolating his or her blood sugar spikes based on food that they’re eating, but also on the stress. And now you have several lines in the water that are adding to the oil stoking the fires. And so as far as now, what you do is you teach people how to how to reverse that, and what to do now that you know, the science and how it has its hand and in all the metabolic cookie jars, if you will, what, what do you do about it? You know, what’s your what is your teaching? And how do you go about it?

 

Danielle Hamilton: Yeah, so it’s a multifaceted approach, because like you said, you started talking about stress. And I think that stress is the number one most underrated and underappreciated cause of blood sugar dysregulation. So it’s usually multiple causes. It’s not usually just one thing. But it’s underrated. People are like, my diet is perfect. I’m going to the gym doing all these things.

But they’re stressed case, and they’re always on and they’re always busy, and they’re always doing something and they’re not healing, and they wonder why. So the stress is a big one so that one can be first. And when we look at stress, we might look at things like Sleep, sleep is hugely important for optimizing blood sugar regulation, we know that without enough sleep, we’re immediately going to come more insulin resistant the next day. And then over time, it worsens that. So we need good blood sugar to have good sleep, but also good sleep to have good blood sugar. So they have this bi-directional relationship.

The same thing with the adrenals, we need good blood sugar to have good adrenals because if we have those spikes, it’s going to mess up the adrenals. But we also need our adrenals to function properly, to regulate our blood sugar adequately. So again, there’s that bi-directional relationship. So the adrenals are something we also work on. But I’m learning from you different ways to work on them.

Then food is hugely, hugely important. So my method of doing this is by I love a real food diet. I’m a big, big proponent of eating whole real foods. And so I started myself with a paleo template, and I which is you know, like meats, vegetables, fats, some whole food, carbohydrates. And for me, I took out those whole food carbohydrates for a while, just up the fats, and made sure I had adequate, you know, animal protein fattier protein works better for blood sugar.

And I was able to reverse my PCOS, basically, by doing that, and I did some intermittent fasting but upping the fats, making sure you have adequate fatty protein. Having some vegetables, if that feels good for you, is a really good just kind of template for how to build a plate that doesn’t spike your blood sugar, because fat has no impact on insulin, protein has a little bit but even less when there’s fat involved.

And then the carbohydrates have a bigger like the biggest response. But when you have nonstarchy vegetables, it’s mostly fiber. So again, there’s almost no impact on the blood sugar. So you get a tiny rise at a meal that keeps you stable. We don’t want our blood sugar to be a flatline, that’s impossible, and that would probably mean we’re dead. So we can have these small little fluctuations, these little waves ebbs, and flow.

And that feels good. So we want to dial in our blood sugar by working on certain things that help keep it more stable. So we can, if we’re still eating some whole food, carbohydrates, we can eat those last in the meal that makes a difference, as opposed to eating it sort of mixed in or having it first. So one of the worst things you could do is start a meal with bread, you’d rather start the meal with a salad because the fiber in the salad is going to slow the digestion and absorption of the sugar into the system.

So start your meal with vegetables, and especially if there’s some vinegar on those vegetables, a lot of people do apple cider vinegar, or just like a shot of it or in a little bit of water before a meal that also reduces the blood sugar response to the meal, going for walks after your meal can also help to reduce the blood sugar response of meals. So planning your walks around those times are great and intense workouts.

Building muscle is a great place to go, it’s really important because as you build muscle, you give more space for that glucose and insulin to go, and you improve the insulin sensitivity of the muscles. And so it’s almost like you’re creating little sponges. So think of your muscles as glucose sponges, so they could soak it up more. And so if you deplete those sponges at a really hard workout, then you eat a meal that has carbohydrates in it, your blood sugar response is going to be almost nothing because you’re just sort of refilling those sponges.

So that’s a really good hack as well you know, eat a meal with carbs right after your workout because we don’t need to be any carb or ketogenic for a long time. And in fact, I don’t recommend that I recommend coming out cycling out of that as soon as you can. As soon as you feel like those. Maybe cravings have subsided some of the symptoms have gone away but

So the foods, we want to increase our fat, do those blood sugar hacks, and consider some intermittent fasting. But what I find is a lot of people overdo it on fasting, I was one of those people, and I started to get cold while I was fasting. And I thought that was probably my thyroid, telling me, Hey, don’t do this so much a lot of people will do, I’m just doing two meals a day, and I’m eating, this was an actual direct message I got, I’m doing two meals a day, and I’m eating 11 155 calories a day.

And I don’t know why but I’m really hungry at night, I’m like because you’re probably hungry. Because that’s an unsustainable amount of calories for a human being, like, we need to change things up, we need to, you know, introduce a refeeding day over eating more than 2000 calories, like, we have to have some variation in what we’re doing. And we have to not be afraid to eat three meals because two meals might be you know, better for healing blood sugar, and this, you know, one person’s view or whatever.

So, um, that’s just my little stick about fasting. But that could be something really helpful. And then. And then yeah, getting your body into a relaxed state, is powerful. And also optimizing digestion, a lot of people can’t adequately digest fats and proteins, we don’t have enough stomach acid, we’re in a constantly stressed out state, that’s suppressing our digestive system. Because when, when our body perceives that we’re stressed, which for us is just there’s on or off with the stress, the sympathetic nervous system is not parasympathetic, it thinks we’re running from a lion.

So it’s going to down-regulate things like digestion, reproduction, detox, and repair, it’s going to shuttle everything to you know, fight or flight, let’s getaway, you’re in that sympathetic overdrive, you’re draining your adrenals in that sense, and then you’re, you’re not digesting. So we need to tap into that relaxed state get out of that chronic sympathetic overdrive, so we can have the digestive juices I don’t like that term but have yet to find a good one. But we need all these, we need to chew our food adequately.

And chewing stimulates the vagus nerve, which activates the parasympathetic. So we need to chew our food 30 times per bite, we need to, we need to look at our fat digestion, a lot of us are not digesting fats very well, especially if we have no gallbladder, but a lot of other people. So you might have intense sugar cravings, you might have stools that float, and they might be shiny or light or clay-colored.

You may have meals like fatty meals, they might run right through you that’s a sign of chronic constipation is a sign of poor fat digestion, having dry skin itching, peeling feet is a symptom of having gallbladder attacks having there like a pain, it’s pain usually on your like your right side. But for some people, it could feel very internal, very diffuse, sort of in the whole ribcage, maybe kind of in the lower back, headaches right over your eyes. So all of these things can indicate poor fat digestion, a lot of us have these.

And we don’t even realize it. So when we’re trying to stabilize our blood sugar, we’re not doing a good job, because we’re not absorbing what we’re eating. So I always focus on optimizing digestion first. Because if you can digest better, you’re going to do better on every single diet that you’re eating because you’re getting more than nutrients from your food. So you don’t have to supplement as much and things like that. And then one more thing, we do a lot of liver support. I love castor oil packs for that. But you know getting out toxins and gentle healing practices, like you know, infrared saunas and things like that.

 

Dr. Joel Rosen: So those are all great, great stuff, look at it like going through the belts for martial art and ultimately becoming a black belt. And that’s where I want to get to Danielle with you like the first-degree second degree that’s where you understand the continuous glucose monitoring and understanding when to maybe employ a refeed. And we’ll get there in a second.

As far as going along the way I agree with you when someone asked me what I like the template as a word like a template of what you’re on your food plate and good quality food that grandma would recognize, right? Getting a good representation of protein, carbs, and fats, but the carbs are more of a fiber that isn’t going to be starchy, lots of dense sugar in there, obviously, and a good or organic, moderate size to even smaller and that’s kind of the segue I want to take with you is probably with the Paleo diet that you read about and you started to switch from that and develop your next line of symptoms.

Where does too much protein come into play with what you’ve learned and as you track because I find that we’re just conditioned that where’s the star of the meal like I need that piece of protein, it needs to be substantial? And what’s your viewpoint on, I guess, macro totals in terms of exceeding a protein threshold and how that might spike glucose? Or even realizing that your carbs even though the amount that you’re getting, still maybe not allow you to get into that ketogenic number. Yeah, we don’t want you to go down to 1100 calories per day. And where does the art come in? And starting from looking at the macros for you?

 

Danielle Hamilton: Yeah. So one thing before I answer that, you kind of mentioned that, you know, with my paleo diet and what had happened, what I think had happened with that, where I went wrong with paleo, personally, was I took a sort of inventory back on my diet, and I looked, and I was like, Okay, where are the carbohydrates and sugar that I’m eating because I’m not doing, you know, cane sugar, refined sugar. So I looked back and I was doing a half a banana blend into my iced coffee with coconut sugar. I did ice bowls, and smoothies and plantains, and sweet potatoes, and kombucha, and like, you name it, fruit and maple syrup, Paleo treats. You name the carb, and I was all over it. And I thought it was okay because I thought it was healthy sugar.

And I thought it was I just thought it was free. So basically, what happened was that I think the protein was there. But I think I now embraced fat. Because I grew up in the 80s and 90s. In that low-fat era, my mom fed me very low fat, you know, she tried her best giving me a chicken breast cooked in Pam, canola oil, you know, like, that was the diet of the time. But now I finally embraced fat. But I also still had a lot of carbohydrates. And I think the two of those, it was too much energy at the same time.

So I had too much insulin, it was storing everything. So that to me was a recipe for me gaining all that weight and developing all, that those issues. So in terms of your other question with the macros, at first, if someone wants to get into ketosis, they may need to lower their protein a little bit under what they might feel like is a normal portion at a meal. So maybe for someone like me, on the five foot one female, I might look at having maybe about six ounces of protein on a meal, but maybe might need to do four or five when I’m just starting ketosis to try to get into ketosis because we need to keep the blood sugar down to not have an insulin response. After all, the low insulin, presence of low insulin is going to trigger the liver to start creating ketones.

So once you get keto-adapted, and fat adapted, you can and should, I think, raise the protein a little bit more. But what a lot of people do is they’re like, oh, a keto diet, they kind of see a little bit online, they’re like, oh, it’s like meat, and like eggs, and maybe cheese, like, okay, and so they do their version of it. And they’re eating a lot, a lot of meat, a lot of protein. And they’re like God, I can’t get into ketosis and my blood sugar is high.

That’s gluconeogenesis, that’s the too much protein can’t be stored in the body, and is converted to sugar. And so that’s kind of what’s at play. So if you’re having trouble getting into ketosis, you’ll want to look at the carbohydrates and make sure they’re kind of under 50. Put on a continuous glucose monitor, and see if there’s a certain food you might be eating that even though it’s low carb, maybe it’s like, you have five raspberries at the end of your meal.

But you see a big spike, maybe that’s just how your body reacts to raspberries or something. So, you know, look at the carbs, but also look at the amount of protein. But typically, I find that people don’t even need to lower their protein that much after the first few like two weeks or so then they can start to take it back up to that normal level where you have that six ounces of protein.

And I think this is so important to do because protein is so so important. And so we don’t want to see especially if someone has a goal of fat loss, we don’t want them to be, you know, overeating, you know, these high amounts of fat. The original macros for a ketogenic diet were based on epilepsy, so we can kind of manipulate that for whatever we’re going through. So we don’t need to be in that high levels of ketosis. And you know, I eat a lot of me and my ketones over the past week have been like 2.3 3.0 2.1. So I’m in high levels of ketosis eating just, I don’t need to track my macros anymore, because I just know, I know how to eat. I know what my plate should look like. I do track it anyway. Just, you know, sometimes for fun. But um, yeah, I don’t know if that answered your question.

 

Dr. Joel Rosen: No, that’s good. I think it’s great information about thinking about it as don’t because one of the things that I would do with my clients, which I’ve gotten out of was, I wanted them to understand data points, and you have to eat. As a provider, you realize you want to give them realistic sustainable health tips that aren’t hard to implement, and are gonna just end up being abandoned.

And when you’re tracking your macros, and you’re doing all these little things, it’s overwhelming. So I like the concept of understanding what you normally have, and back it down a little bit, making sure that you’re not getting so many calories in the free sugars, and combining that with fat. I like that concept. I also like the idea of where Mrs. Jones, it doesn’t mean we want you to be necessarily that keto, ketogenic person that’s on a really heavy keto diet, remember, what’s your number one problem, remember that people lose sight of that, like, what’s not working for you.

For this person, it might be their brain fog, it might be their joint pain for this person, they want to lose weight and have a couple of other goals in mind as well. They’re their sex hormones, or they’re losing their hair. So always come down to why like, what’s not working for you? And what do you want to address? And if you know, as you had with that epiphany moment that your blood sugar is at the center stage and that stress and cortisol have a major part to play in it.

But what you put in your mouth has even more of an important part, then it’s not necessarily okay, you just need to eat high fats, you need to be aware of what carbs are doing, and make sure that you’re not scared of healthy fats. And you’re aware of what spikes are happening to your glucose and how everything comes together. I guess the question when you say, keep it below 50.

It’s kind of like slipping that in there. Oh, yeah. And like, you’re going from like, what? You had no idea you were at probably 200 Plus, go down to 50? Like, how do you sort of finagle that? How do you get someone to get in the role or law? Endorse or embrace what you’re teaching? But wait a minute, run that back? Me by me again? You’re 50? Like, what? How do I get there? Like, tell me, tell me how you do that?

 

Danielle Hamilton: Yeah, so in my program, blood sugar mastery I use, I created something called the blood sugar diet roadmap. And so you kind of find out where you are on that spectrum. And this has a lot to do with how many carbs you’re eating. And typically, if you’re on some sort of a standard American diet, or what I call the conscious, standard American diet, this might be the person with the Diet Coke and the whole wheat bread. Chances are you’re eating very high carbs, probably somewhere around 150 or 200.

And, right? And so what I have people do is systematically remove certain things to work their way towards eating whole real foods, because, for some people, they can just be like, oh, yeah, I’ll go paleo. Overnight, no problem. A lot of people have very busy lives, you know, nutrition doesn’t come super easily to them, they have to change their whole lifestyle and routine and cook and the kids eat something different and whatever. So we do this systematically.

So first, we’ll take out vegetable oils, because they’re highly toxic, and they cause tons of problems. We’ll work on taking out gluten like these things are a big change a big shift in people’s diets, we work on taking out regular sugars, and then those artificial ones and then the nonnutritive ones that people use all the time, like monk fruit and stevia and allulose. Because they keep the palate trained towards wanting a sweet taste. They make us think that food sugar is coming.

They drive hunger, they drive cravings, and then they secrete a little bit of insulin. So anyone who has reactive hypoglycemia is going to want to stay away from those. But we work our way through the different food categories like that. And then eventually, they get to a place where they’re eating whole real foods. And chances are, they’re slowly lowering their number of carbohydrates until they’re like, Oh, I’m eating, you know, a steak, broccoli, and a half a sweet potato at my meal. Great. That’s a really good meal for so many people. And then eventually, if you know, depending on their goals, depending on what they’re struggling with, we might say like, okay, maybe we’re going to swap that sweet potato for half an avocado instead. And so that’s how we, you know, progress, but it’s all individualized.

So like you said, I’m not going to put everyone on a ketogenic diet. Not everyone needs it, but a lot of people cannot burn fat for fuel. And that is a powerful tool for restoring that part of their metabolism. And then they can be able to tolerate carbohydrates again, like me, so I’m not always in ketosis at all. I was not in ketosis for a long time, but I still crave ketones all the time. So I can eat, go out to eat and have, you know, mango, I can have ice cream if I’m on vacation or something.

The next day I woke up, I’m still in ketosis, even though I’m not doing a strict ketogenic diet. And to me, that’s showing that my metabolism is flexible. I could burn fats, I could burn glucose and I go back to being able to burn fats between meals to sustain me I can fast if I want to, even though I don’t like to practice it all the time, just because my body’s like, Oh, she’s not eating. Okay, we’ll just, you know, eat a little from, you know, her underarm or something like that. And it’s just it. Yeah, that’s kind of where I want to get my clients to, in terms.

 

Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, I mean, I think that’s a good point is that that paradigm shift in the person’s brain is, is that it’s, you’re gonna have to teach your body how to burn another alternative fuel source that is engineered for you that ultimately, you’re only you’re gonna have to do one way or the other. If you want to solve your blood sugar and or fill-in-the-blank problem, that’s going to be something you’re going to need to accept. I liked the other idea too, that with the monk fruit, and the other sweeteners, to not even do it, I, I would even say the CLI like once you learn how to make that paradigm shift of burning another fuel source, you’re not going to have the cravings to have flavored water, or you’re not going to need to have that iced tea sweetened that you’re not going to feel like you need that you have this other fuel source that’s keeping you stable throughout the day that you’re not going to feel that way.

As far as one of the things that I wanted to ask you about is the difference between real hypoglycemia, and resistance because a lot of people don’t realize that right? Where I think there’s a cluster of both. And in your case, at the beginning, where you were secreting a lot of insulin, your cells were not resistant, and they were causing a major drop of your glucose and that was the shaky and, and needing something to eat and whatever can accompany that. But a lot of the clients that I work with, are not hypoglycemic, right?

They’ve long passed that insulin response, where they’re in the 60s, they haven’t seen like, lower than 100, since like the Clinton years, you know what I mean? Like, they haven’t gotten down there, but they’re like, Oh, I’m hypoglycemic, I gotta eat small meals more frequently. So tell maybe educate the listeners on that? And how to overcome that.

 

Danielle Hamilton: Yeah. So that I tell people, you can feel the symptoms of hypoglycemia at any number. And what I find is that the people who are having true hypoglycemia, they’re less further along in the progression of it. And it’s easier to resolve than the people who are having these perceived lows in the 80s 90s, hundreds, etc, even upwards up to 200. I’ve heard someone say, and then like a Facebook group, she’s like, if I go below 200, I feel like I’m gonna pass out. It’s just wild to me.

So usually, you’re bordering on the pre-diabetic side at that time, and there’s a lot more insulin resistance when you’re not having these true lows, and you’re having what they call postprandial syndrome, which is where that’s, that’s the best I could find when I look things up. But basically, the treatment is the same. The problem is that people, so the thing with hypoglycemia is that we want to get the insulin down, we want to get and oftentimes, neither of these groups, the ones with the true lows are the ones with the feeling low in the normal range. Neither of them can fast.

So we can’t use fasting to get down the insulin, which is a wonderful tool for that. A lot of them can’t exercise because their adrenals are so shot and because a lot of them have pots. And then a lot of them have electrolyte issues. So they’re all minerally deficient, because there, you know, their adrenals have been working over time. Some of them are in the stages of like high cortisol, and some of them have some sort of weird dysregulation or really low cortisol, but we need to get that insulin down in all of them.

So we have to, and for a lot of people, the best sort of therapeutic tool is a ketogenic diet because they have so their met metabolisms are so fixed on burning sugar. After all, the high insulin levels are blocking the body from using the stored sugar or the stored body fat so they can’t access their reserves. So they have to be dependent on eating every few hours.

So the way that I’ve found to help both of these groups is to give them fat, most of them the advice out there, if you are getting advice, that’s not just an anti-anxiety medication, is to have a lean protein and a complex carbohydrate. That is horrible advice. If you have been told that and they say eat every few hours, just eat a protein and a complex carb. That’s just good. It’s just spiking your blood sugar over and over and over again. It’s not helping, it’s going to make you worse if it has made you worse.

That’s why. So we need fats. And a lot of my people who are sensitive to these crashes, either group, they will say, I make these posts on Instagram that says like, these are fat, these are the proteins that will spike your blood sugar. And these are the proteins that might cause blood sugar crashes, and people and people are adding me they’re like really tuna egg whites are my protein powder, you have to have the fat coming with the protein, I swear there’s something about it, you can’t add enough fat for some of these people, they have that lean protein, a chicken breast, egg whites, protein powder, tuna, turkey slices, they instantly crash.

It’s just too insulin genic, when the fat comes with the protein, there’s something extremely stabilizing about that. And I’ve had, I don’t know the full science of it. But when it comes together naturally, it’s super powerful. One of my students was like, if I have a steak, I sleep perfectly through the night, you know, like, it just is really powerful. So we need to get fat in them to stabilize the blood sugar, and we need to start introducing some of these hacks. And we need to, you know, we’re eating the carbs last we’re not having naked cards, we’re not correcting lows unless they’re very, very, very intense and severe.

We’re not correcting them with carbs, we do not type one diabetic. So a lot of times, they’re like all these people taking glucose tablets to bump their blood sugar back up, a glucose tablet and a non-type one diabetic, does not bring your blood sugar up, it brings her blood sugar up and then down. So you’re in the same place as you started. So that’s important to keep in mind because you’re gonna get more, you’re just introducing more insulin into a system that already has too much insulin.

So what I found in these two groups of people, I don’t know, the full, I don’t have a full understanding of what’s going on, I just know that the treatment is the same for both groups, but that the group that has that’s more progressed, where they’re, you know, feeling these lows when they’re in the 80s and 90s. Hundreds, it just takes them a lot longer. Because it’s already been progressing that much longer. So and then usually, though, they may have a diagnosis of pre-diabetes. So again, it’s been that, but that’s just, you know, a random number.

 

Dr. Joel Rosen: Right. And I’m great information. Danielle, I agree 100%. And I would tell people that it’s been going on longer, you know that you’re not able to get it lower than most times 100. And I hate the term pre-diabetes, that’s like saying, a little bit pregnant, you know, like, it’s, you’re already there, you’re already in the arena, the metabolic changes have already happened, or are already in progress. So really, great information for sure.

As far as the science goes, what I think happens is your body is so like Plinko chips go down one pathway. And it doesn’t go down this way, as soon and I think I don’t know if this is even a term but you’re free to use it, as you said naked carbs. What about naked proteins? Right? So naked proteins, if they’re going down, and they’re getting naked proteins, it automatically goes down that that Plinko pathway into glycolysis.

And if you’re pairing it with, with what’s occurring in nature, with how we were designed, and it’s unadulterated and it’s got good, healthy, marbleized fat in there, then you don’t go down that that Plinko that train tracks sort of switches to the other side and says oh, we can go down into, you know, into Krebs cycle into oxidative phosphorylation. And that’s really what I teach my clients.

Listen, at the end of the day, I hate the term adrenal fatigue. And I even hate the term HPA Axis dysfunction. I just like the concept that you have a demand and supply problem. You’re not combining the food you eat with the air you breathe into ATP and water. That’s it. That’s it. And what you’re doing is you’re creating energy from burning as you talk about like just burning the kindling and the paper and the twigs and the branches. And you want to ignite that log.

And that requires what you’re teaching. So kudos to you on that for sure. As far as any other clinical pearls that you can share with us in terms of you know when you do the CGM s or you’re looking at the glucose ketone index, or even I picked this up at the place the other day was the Yeah, the AST is, you know, with with the breath meter to measure your ketones, you’re into tracking what kind of quick clinical hacks or tools do you have you seen with your demographic?

 

Danielle Hamilton: Yeah, so one of the things I like to share is that you know, your doctor gets a lot of things wrong when it comes to blood. are they’re not trained properly, they’re not trained, they’re not paid educated to do any sort of prevention or anything, because if you think about it, the only tools that they have are Metformin, and drugs and insulin, and that you can only give that when someone’s reached a certain level of blood sugar. So once their blood sugar gets maybe over 100, then it’s like, Oh, time for Metformin.

But before then, they don’t have any way to help you. So as your blood sugar keeps rising, it’ll be like 9890 901 to one, they’re like, let’s just watch it. That’s the advice that doctors give imagine, someone came to you and paid you money, and you’re like, let’s just watch this. It’s like, that’s not advice that’s not doing your job. So they get things wrong. So ideally, the fasting range that I like to use with my clients is between 70 and 85 milligrams per deciliter.

If you’re outside of the US, you can divide those numbers by 18, to get the millimoles. So 70 to 85 is a really good range. But again, you have to feel good at that range. So if you feel like you’re hypoglycemic, when you’re hitting, you know, 85, that’s not a good range for you, it’s okay to have it a little bit higher as you do the work. But you want to see it come down over time. When we use continuous glucose monitors, or we can even use finger prick monitors, we want to make sure our blood sugar isn’t rising over maybe 30 milligrams per deciliter at a meal, that’s 1.6 millimoles, I believe.

And so we want to keep them like very stable, you know, a not a sharp spike up, not a sharp spike down. That’s what we’re gonna get, feel all those symptoms, it could be as it’s going up, it could be at the peak of when it is. So I experimented, I ate a naked carb, I had a green apple, which a lot of people, you know, ask 95% of the United States of America would say that’s a healthy snack, not for me, you and I probably wouldn’t say that, because it’s a naked carb, for the most part, it’s gonna it’s spiked my blood sugar over 30.

And then, right when it hit that peak on my continuous glucose monitor, I was craving carbs like crazy, my stomach had that empty feeling where I don’t know, like, you could almost like feel the borders of your stomach. I was like, Oh my gosh, I want to eat something so badly. I hate this experiment. So it can be happening kind of anywhere on the glucose curve. Some people will connect the high points of their blood sugar to certain headaches they get or certain anxiety feeling that they might feel.

For some people, it’s more like as it’s coming down, they start that’s when they get hangry. They get cravings, they get irritable. So putting a glucose monitor on is so powerful for connecting how you feel with what your blood sugar is doing because it opens this window into what’s going on inside. So you can feel like oh my goodness, I always thought that was because of XYZ, and I didn’t realize it was my blood sugar. I didn’t realize this food or my coffee. I switched to decaf. Coffee spikes my blood sugar big-time and makes me hypoglycemic. So I just, I don’t do it.

I just do, you know, a little bit of caffeine tiny bit. And so you can figure out what foods are your kryptonite, and which ones you might want to avoid or even minimize, because sometimes the poisons in the dose, like beets are beautifully healthy food.

They’re so good for your gallbladder, there’s they have so many benefits. And you know, someone on a ketogenic diet might be like, Oh, I can’t have beets because it’s too sugary. It’s a root vegetable, you can have a few of them, right? Like you can have a few bites, maybe at each meal, you have a few bites at each meal. And that’s all you have those your carbs for the day or whatever. But we can have these different things, you could just learn your threshold. And so I also use ketone testing as well. If I’m doing ketosis and I use a finger prick meter for that. And it’s really important.

If you’re doing keto, that you’re testing your blood or your breath, not using the urine strips, they don’t give you enough information. But I can’t tell you how many people I just one of my new students, she’s like, I was doing keto for three years, but I don’t think I was ever in ketosis because I never got any of the benefits or lost weight. That’s a waste of my time. Like you’re what happens if you’re not getting into ketosis is that you’re lowering your carbs and you get stuck in a state called Low Carb purgatory.

I got that from Sean miner. And low carb purgatory is when your only fuel sources are carbs because you’re insulin resistant, and you don’t have access to burning body fat yet. And so you lower your only fuel source, but you’re not yet burning body fat and ketones. So you have this much fuel, you have a tiny, tiny bit of fuel, which are a few carbs you’re eating, so you’re gonna feel tired, you’re probably going to put on weight, you’re not going to feel good. So you want to make sure that if you’re going for keto, you get there in a slow way and that you prepare your body for it.

Make sure you’re digesting your fat, you’re feeling good eating those higher levels of fat, then, like, you know, break the barrier. Just go for keto, but make sure you test to make sure you’re in there. So Jeff rarely points five to 3.0 millimoles. I heard from Ben Azadi point eight to 3.0, in terms of getting the benefits you want, so just make sure you’re making ketones and that you’re in ketosis and then your blood sugar. That’s the cool part. When I’m in ketosis, my blood sugar can go low. Be in the 60s, if I’m fasting sometimes could go into the 50s. That was a while ago, I haven’t done a long fast but the 60s 70s 50s are No problem because I’m just fueled by fat. So it can go low. And a lot of healing can happen during that time.

 

Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, it’s good. Good insight. I like the idea of switching the idea of going keto diet. It is more in terms of when interviewing Dorian from keto Mojo is more of a Keto lifestyle or your goal is to gain flexibility by having your body produce ketones. It creates a whole different image versus I’m eating ketogenic, right, because then you’re denying the physiological metabolic switch that you’re looking to attain. That doesn’t necessarily have to be with an absurd amount of dirty type. keto things, right?

 

Danielle Hamilton: So six a butter. Yeah, tons of bacon bars, like it doesn’t need to be that.

 

Dr. Joel Rosen: Right. So awesome information and just respect for your time, because I know we both got to hop here, what would you have done differently if you were doing what you know, now, if you could have switched things up?

 

Danielle Hamilton: So I’m in terms of my healing, or before I ever healed? Like maybe, as in my childhood.

 

Dr. Joel Rosen: Would be of like an aha, that you know, now that you didn’t know, then that at any point in time you wish you would have done differently? I guess that would be more specific.

 

Danielle Hamilton: Yeah, I guess I wish I would have known what these blood sugar symptoms were, I wish I would have known to pay attention to my blood sugar because I feel like my life would have been well, I mean, I wouldn’t be here where I am, but my life would have been vastly different. And I would have prevented a lot of, you know, suffering and hardships. Because the other thing, another thing I always forget to say, because, on Instagram, they will flag your account is that sugar, it impacts the immune system, I almost forget it because I’m not allowed to say it on Instagram, because I’ll get flagged or get my account taken away. So this is another thing I had all those immune struggles for so long. And so obviously, you know, the sugar, it just like, is like kicking your immune system in the crotch.

And so when I was eating all these high sugar foods, it was doing a number on that. And that was a big issue for me. So I think knowing what sugar blood sugar did to my body would be what I would choose.

 

Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, like having that you know, the Seinfeld issue where you bring everything together at the end where you now look back and not just take what you’re doing for granted in terms of it’s healthy, and sort of understand that all the things that you put in your mouth and all the thoughts that you have and all the activities and movements and self-healing stuff that you do go a long way for not just controlling your blood glucose but for keeping your physiology humming and extending lifespan and health span and so forth. So so the best way to get in contact with you and follow you is I know you’re all over social media. Where can the listeners find you?

 

Danielle Hamilton: Yeah, I hang out a lot on Instagram at Danielle Hamilton Health. My podcast unlocked the sugar shackles and you find that anywhere. And my website’s Danielle Hamilton help.com. And my blood sugar mastery course comes out several times a year. So I’ll be sending you the waitlist info for that because the next round is going to start in September 2022. So that’s all those things that I was talking about all those strategies, we go over all of those in depth in the program to help sort of walk you through it. If that’s something you’re interested in.

 

Dr. Joel Rosen: Awesome. Well, listen, thanks for your time. Thanks for your information and good things wish good things to you in the future. And I look forward to connecting with you real soon. Yeah, thanks, Dr. Joe.

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