Adrenal Fatigue Recovery For the Average Joe

Joel Rosen, the adrenal fatigue recovery ninja. And I’m really excited to have here a friend and client with me today, Joseph fleck, I really wanted to interview Joe, because he is the kind of client that we all look forward to having in terms of understanding that there are some health challenges, but then also taking responsibility for your house and being decisive, and being very coachable. And I always find that it’s very enlightening. And revealing when you can identify with someone else who like yourself, you may have had a lot of similar health challenges. And we can go through Joseph’s story, and see where he’s at now and get some good feedback. So Joe, thank you so much for being here today.

Joe: You’re welcome. Thank you, Dr. Joel

Dr. Joel: So what I’d really like to kind of get started with is maybe a little bit of stroll down memory lane in terms of why you got into the area of taking care of, you know, not so much taking care of your health, but knowing that there was a problem. What was the problem? Before we started really working together? Or before you looked at changing your life? What was not working in your health?

Joe: Sure. Well, I’m a 60-year-old construction worker, recovering alcoholic and drug abuser, with nine years, just about nine years sobriety, so personally, 36 months ago, and you know, I have you know, after about six and a half years of sobriety, I was feeling really good, you know, had a hangover really been sick and six years but so I started thinking, you know, what, what else could I do to you know, improve my health, you know, I was still overweight. 248 pounds. Today, I’m 213. So, I started just surfing the internet and I got into a ketogenic lifestyle. And to that extent going down other rabbit holes, you know, eventually led me to you and epigenetic and nutrigenomics and just, you know, so many rabbit holes to go down to and not enough time.

Dr. Joel: Yeah, well, no, listen, I thank you for the honesty. I know that, when I get on the call with someone and we talk about, hey, they’re like a Type A or there are addictions and compulsions in their family or even themselves with that. I mean, number one, thank you for being honest and forthright. And number two, obviously, commendable in terms of seeing the writing on the wall, I’m guessing and knowing like, I can’t survive like this for very long. So was there a specific wake up call that you had Joe that made you realize, okay, I can’t continue down this road? 

Joe:  Yeah, it was funny. I work, you know, I construction worker, I’m up and down a ladder-climbing and ceilings and everything. And you know, it just was beginning to get, you know, hard, harder to do you know, and now,, after 36 months, you know, I got 16 months, that’s very time and I’ll probably be in better shape when I retire than when I started 35 years 

Dr. Joel: Yeah, right. Right. So it was just not being able to keep up with your daily active life like just you felt safe or unsafe on the lot, or people noticing problems with you were you. I mean, you didn’t hit really rock bottom per se. Right. It wasn’t down out.

Joe: It was personal, you know, I can still keep up with the best of the guys that work. But just personally my standards, my work was slipping, I could see that, and also, I’d go to a rock concert. And,, taking it was a three-day thing. I was taking a nap. And someone took a picture of me and showed it to me later. And I said That’s not me. And they go Yes, it is.  And I, you know, I was laying down on the ground, like back to the camera. And I said That’s not me. And then when I realized how big I was, you know, and I was like, wow. And it just hit, you know, it took a long time to get that way. And it took me a long time to realize.

Dr. Joel: Gotcha, okay, well, that’s good. I mean, we always need to have some kind of realization that the path we’re on is not working. I always tell the people I work with, you can’t force someone to do it. I can’t care more than you do about getting you better. You got to come to that realization. For some, it’s something like that. And for other people, it’s more destructive in terms of the wake-up call is they’re in jail or they’re in the hospital or they’re homeless and so kudos again for you in that way. What were some of the starting challenges besides the addiction and realizing that this is not what you want? This is not you? What were some of the things in your health that weren’t working like brain fog, focus fatigue? 

Joe: yeah, there was fatigue and the brain fog and just the inability to bend over kind of show, you know, without holding my breath, you know, I told somebody the other day, I finally put my pants on without holding on the other day, you know, I mean, that made my day was simple things that make my day I don’t have to hold on to, you know, to a chair, put my pants on anymore, you know? 

Dr. Joel: So, okay, so then as far as there was just the physical inability to do things, obviously. And then as far as did you go, like, a lot of people will do what they normally,  okay, I’ll go to my doctor. And I’ll just go to the what’s covered with my insurance? And why not go that route? So did you initially go down through hell go get physical, I’ll go see what’s going on. They’ll tell me what’s up kind of thing. Like, what did you do from there?

Joe: No, you’re probably the first doctor I’ve seen since I got an MRI 40 years ago, that what happened, really what changed my life is they opened up a gym, right across the street from my house where I can see it out the window, you know, and it was like, well, he can’t really say it’s too far to go, I don’t want to get the car drive there. Because it takes 45 seconds to walk there. You know, wow. Okay. And I guess I talked myself into going, I started going, and in the construction business, you’re off work for periods of time, and I started going every morning, and instead of feeling better, and, you know, the weight started coming off. Next thing I know, I was down, you know, 10-15 pounds. And then after that next thing, I know, I’m standing there by the door, if I’m clicking more on weight from the open the gym every day, you know, and it just snowballed. And then I got into the ketogenic lifestyle. And, you know, I felt good, you know, and I remember you asked me, you, how do I feel, through working with you, and I said, Well, I felt good when I started with, because 38 years of alcoholism and drug abuse, after so many years, you know, and then living a better lifestyle and exercise. And, you know, I felt good, but I knew I could feel better. And I knew, I wasn’t where I wanted to be, and I had to do something about it. So I started, I hired a coach kept him for eight months, and end up losing 40 pounds. And then I decided I could do it on my own. But then it kind of backslides it a little bit. Next thing I know, it was 12 months, after I quit working with the coach, and then it was 14 months, and then but I was still at the same time studying, you know, everything I could, get on ketogenic still eating properly and exercising, but I just knew something was missing, you know, so I just kept going down some rabbit holes in it and eventually led me to you. 

Dr. Joe: Yeah, so a couple of things in there. I mean, a couple of things that I find that some people never get are, those accountability mirror right, looking in the mirror, and being accountable. And that’s some, I mean, sometimes, like, I’m listening, actually right now to that David Goggins book on tape. And he talks about, being honest with what you see, reflecting back at you and not sugarcoating it, and you know, and I think that’s what you’re saying right now is like, Look, this is not who I am, who I see myself, and I shamed myself in the sense that like, I kind of like gave me that pep talk, like, get, you know, do something about it, which, is great. I think a lot of people have to do, if you’re gonna change, you have to have that change, you have to have that flipping switch.

Joe: My father passed away at 60. And that was it at that time when he passed, that was the record for his side of the family for males 60 years old. I’m 60 and three quarters now. So you know, I’ve lived longer with my father. His father died at 35 his brother died at 35 so basically, it was fear, you know, and right, then I overcame it. You know, I’ve got a support program now for my alcoholism and drug abuse. And I also have coaches now and mentors, you know, which I didn’t have before. You know, I am spiritual mentors, financial mentors, you know, health mentors, you know, and The main thing was admitting I need help, you know, and I don’t know everything. And I heard a quote one time from Bruce Springsteen, and he said, his father shared with him and, and told him, you know, it’s time to quit dreaming about the man you want to be and be the man you dreamed about. Do you know?

Dr. Joel: Yeah, that’s cool.

Joe: That made it impact me. When I heard that, you know, and now I, you know, I keep my eyes open. And I’m always looking to improve myself.

Dr. Joel: Well, that’s a prerequisite. You have to have that burning desire. And was there something like in terms you felt like you were missing out on? Like, what was the big why behind that? What was the big “I deserve more, I want more” what was the driving force behind that

Joe: When I learned to ask for help, I like to tell the guys that in my meetings, I mastered the art of despair and hopelessness, you know, and now I’d like to see how happy one human being could be, you know, so far, I can still stand the happiness, you know?

Dr. Joel: Yeah, I gotta tell you, like, for me, personally, I obviously have my own fatigue, exhaustion, burnout problems. And one thing I’ve recently learned about myself is the inability to ask for help. A lot of the times we suffer in silence, we don’t want to burden anyone, we kind of get attached to that loneliness, or whatever it may be, you know, in terms of, so I guess, again, it’s great that you asked for help. And then the light bulb went off in terms of, okay, there are people out there that aren’t only just helping me, but I can leapfrog their knowledge so that I don’t have to learn it on my own. And I could accelerate my learning curve by helping them like was, was that something you always had? Because not everyone has that? Right? 

Joe: Yeah, I’ve always had the need to help people. You know, I, when I got out of the military I went into a coaching youth football here in my hometown, and I have to play on the very first team ever, that my hometown had in 1969. And then 25 years later, being the head coach of the team, it was first, you know, 10 years old on and, and also, you know, with family history and everything, you know, my dad had a stroke, my younger sister had a stroke, I thought I could help my family, you know, with this knowledge, that’s, you know, we talked earlier about KATZU training. That’s one thing I’m getting into right now because it’s supposed to its benefit for Alzheimer’s, dementia. And my mind has to be suffering for that now. So I’m, you know, hopefully, the stuff I’m learning that I’ve learned from you, and it’s stuff I continue to learn, like, you know, help her out a little bit, you know, so and then my, and then my five sisters who you know, this Alzheimer’s on the female side of your family, I don’t want to see my five sisters go through that. 

Dr. Joel: Yeah, I again, like I love doing these for others. But at the same time, what is driven home for me is, with the most successful clients that I work with, there’s a way in terms of what’s driving them like you realize it’s not only for me, this is my passion is to get myself better, feel as happy as I can be, and share that uniqueness with other people that may have, you know, some challenges that I can help them with. And that has to be there. It can’t be just Okay, I got to get rid of this because I don’t want to feel crappy anymore. I gotta feel awesome. So that I can approach my mission, I can approach my purpose, what I’m on put on this planet to do which is always going to be more energetically driving, then I got to get rid of this. So I think that’s a huge lesson. 

One thing I want to do before we get into the katsu stuff is talked a little about if it’s okay with you if I share just a little bit of the finding of one of the main challenges that we saw with your bloodwork, if that’s okay, sure. Yeah, and really, we saw the iron overload, right. And I would say the reason as soon as you said like, and reminded me that everyone died at 60 or younger. To me, that’s probably because of the family trait, the genetic predisposition of iron overload, when iron overloads it oxidizes just like rust on a car and if you don’t have a good antioxidant system, then everything in the body oxidizes cell membranes, and then you have a lot of cardiovascular challenges and blood flow problems, and, boom, that’s what happened. So, maybe let’s talk a little bit about what we’ve done to help that, like, what has been part of our protocol to make sure that that doesn’t ever really become the main challenge for you?

Joe: you know, exercising has been a big thing. As you know, I built a nice workout room in my, in my house and, you know, having an addictive personality or exercising, I want to, you know, I mean, just because it just, I don’t drink or do drugs anymore, doesn’t mean I’m still not an addict, you know, I could still. get that obsessiveness and some supplementation diet and just better living, you know, a sure has been a big thing, like, you know, like I said, I, I get up in the morning, every day, ready for a new adventure. You know, I mean, I live is not a challenge anymore. It’s an adventure, you know, nine years ago, when I thought it was a challenge to get out of bed every morning, get up and go to work, you know, I, you know, even though in 16 months, I’m eligible for retirement, I probably work another three years, you know?

Dr. Joel: Right, right. And you’ve taken up playing the guitar, and you’re doing so what I was getting at, though, Joe was one of the main things that we recommend for someone that has those iron overload, or iron dysregulation, or inability to quench those free radicals. And deplete all your antioxidants is to donate blood, right? 1So what we want to do is, be able to dump that iron and get it into a respectable, say, 75 to 100. Were on the lab test. I mean, I don’t know if you were aware of this. But on the lab tests, it shows from a lab range 30 to 400, from a lab range for ferritin. Right? There’s more research showing that it should be, you know, between 50 to 75, or even lower. So one of our barometers of how you’re improving whether or not you feel great or not is objectively on the blood test and say, Hey, we’re, you know, we’re getting into the red here again, we need to bring that down. So how often are you going for that?

Joe: Every four months, probably every four months?

Dr. Joel, So I haven’t looked at your bloodwork yet. But typically, what I would do is I want to know, okay, where’s our blood drawn? Now? Where are we on our ferritin levels now? So that we can you know, we’ve implemented exercise, we’ve been implemented nutritional strategies. We’ve looked over your other genetic susceptibilities, to be able to make some recommendations for supporting neurotransmitter production, I guess what would you say to the person that, you know, thinks is me as I introduced myself earlier as the adrenal fatigue recovery Ninja, but then, you know, pretty much telling you Hey, Joe, as it goes down to the cellular level, it’s not just the adrenals um, what not knowing what you know, now, what would you tell someone else that says, Well, um, you know, I don’t, I think I don’t have like my problems, just more stress, and adrenals. And all I need to do is take like, an adrenal supplement, and I’ll fix this, what would you tell that person?

Joe: working with you, Dr. Joel, I went into so many different aspects that, you know, that control, you know, your pathways and everything that, you know, if, you know, one thing is out of kilter here, it could cause a little bit over here, you know, yeah, you have to more look at the big picture, you know, not just know, it’s usually the one thing is not the root cause, you know, it’s right. It’s a combination of things, you know,

Dr. Joel: So, yeah, I mean, the other thing we saw, too, which wasn’t always on my radar, up until a couple of years ago, was the founder of oxalates, where oxalates are basically plant-based compounds that are very energy depleting and can create a lot of musculoskeletal pains. fibromyalgia, maybe let’s talk a little bit about that. Because I know that was a big part of, you know, like, even though Hey, I would ask you Hey, Joe, what’s going on? Like, no, I feel great, but But yeah, yeah, like my hip hurts or my fire. Right. So talk about some of those other things. 

Joe: Yeah. Yeah, that was one of the things we uncovered through you know, through our working together was the low oxalate diet, you know, I was eating healthy and, you know, I was eating spinach every day, you know, and olives and everything that great ketogenic, you know, foods. And then when you know, enlighten me about the low oxalate diet, I looked at, you know, on the sheet, the reference sheet you gave me in it right? On top spinach, you know, so you know, I eliminated spinach I eliminated olives assures, heck, you know it within a few weeks, you know, the pain in the leg started going away. And it was simple as that here I thought it was doing something healthy, which again goes back to the big picture was causing something else something somewhere else, you know. So yeah, it’s hard to you know, it’s hard for the layman like me to, you know, read this and diagnosis without having a medical doctor.

Dr. Joe:  Yeah, well, you know, the good news is, is that, like, you’d already been feeling better, you’d already know what feeling crap feels like for 35 years, and you’d already made the changes and you went with one coach that got you so far, and then you’ve decided to go to the next level. 

I always tell people, Joe, that they’re so close yet so far, there may be one or two things that they’re missing, that can break it wide open and continue the onslaught of improvement. And that gives people hope, like, you know, like, what you’re doing is not for not like you’re doing a lot of healthy things, but you’re missing the tool, the hammer is no longer for the nail anymore, you know, you have to do something different. And I think for you, iron overload was a huge one for sure. 

Oxalates was another huge one. And if you look at the pathway behind me, it really what both those things do is they stimulate your mast cells, and then your mast cells stimulate your histamines and then your mast cells stimulate your HPA axis. And if that is not working well, you can have an adrenal based you know, overstimulated fatigue crash in the middle of the day type of problem. Then you would do a saliva test and see that your adrenals were either low or high, you would take a supplement to either make them lower or higher in the opposite direction. And like many people I talked to, they didn’t fix the problem because they didn’t look at the right highways, so to speak. So you’ve done that, which is great. And so as far as now I’m really interested in finding out about what you were talking about with katsu. Let’s talk about what it is, let’s talk about what it does. And let’s talk about how people can benefit from it.

Joe: Well, what I’ve learned so far KATZU training is not blood flow restriction is blood flow moderation, where the arterial flow goes into the limb and venous flow comes back from the filament towards the heart. And as you put the the pneumatic bands on you on your proximal points, which is the end of the limb, either on your arms or your legs, and then you do very lightweight exercise, it simulates heavy exertion, you know. And what it does is you have a pooling of blood in the arms or the legs, which allows you to train the fast-twitch and slow twitch muscles at the same time, which usually you can’t do that one is for endurance. One is for quick explosiveness. Now you can do this at the same time, which is, you know, good for your time constraints. Yeah. And then and then as you do that, it, it kind of simulates and tricks your mind into reducing growth hormone, right, which then in turn, builds muscle. And when you’re, when you’re done with the moderation training, you have better circulation through your arms and legs. And it expands the capillaries in your extremities, which sometimes even you know, as you get older, the blood doesn’t get there. And what that does is just overall improve your circular circulatory system and your cardiovascular system and your nervous system and all kinds of great things happen for your body.

Dr. Joel:  For sure, and especially someone like you like let’s take those two triggers, like oxidative stress from iron overload, and oxidative stress from oxalate overload. To get into the biochemistry just, very briefly, it stimulates an enzyme called NOx. And one of the things that nitric oxide will do is decreased the activity of NOx. So it’s kind of like putting the brakes on a runaway train that you already have going on. By supporting them as we get older, we lose our ability to make nitric oxide and nitric oxide is an amazing chemical modulator that will tell the immune system to work properly to not go out of kilter to be, you dilating and, and healing so awesome stuff. So as far as depending on when whoever’s listening to this interview, you will probably have the certification all finished with but for now, we’re in the process of doing the katsu certifying and then once that’s done, what will that like? How does that work? You’re gonna be a katsu coach like what is that consistent,

Joe: I Started practice and the katsu trainer, and I am looking into nutritional therapy, and, you know, counseling, it may take me a few years to get all this certification, but I plan on living a long time. So,

Dr. Joel: right? Well, not only that, I mean, the best certification is the practical know-how you’re right and you have your own story of being down and out literally on your back and not knowing that was you to feeling great and identifying with other people that wouldn’t necessarily want to talk to me because, like you, they’re intimidated to talk to doctors, right. But if I could talk to Joe, who knows, like what it is to feel this way, and can help me with what I do. So would that be something Joe, that if once you are certified, and you can consult with people and teach them how to get their health back in the way, you know, that identify with some of the similar things that you were dealing with? They’d have to see you in person? Or can they work with you over the internet? How would that work?

Joe: And well, they would have to be a personal thing, because you have the machine, the costume. Machine time, right? advanced to put on. But you know, I could always give, points I’m going in the right direction.

Dr. Joel: Gotcha. Yeah. And I asked you if it was okay if you would share your contact information, even though you’re not certified. Now just ask you questions, or, you know, if they did want to work with you, once you are certified, how would they get in contact with you?

Joe: You could email me, 

Dr. Joel: Okay,, great. So as far as Was there any major Aha, pause, or any major, like, bio hacks that you would say work the best for you above and beyond just the knowledge and the coaching that we did that was that really kind of you can reflect on that you would tell someone that’s listening to this?

Joe: Oh, good question. Um, I don’t know, it’s still I’m still a work in progress. And I, you know, I just started drinking hydrogenated water, you know, like, I’ve got the filter on the showerhead, you know, and try trying to eliminate toxins, you know, from my life. And, I mean, it’s just again, for me, it depends on which way you want to go. There’s so many, bio hacks out there that, it’s really an individualized thing for me, I know, something’s, way too expensive, you know, like a hyperbaric chamber, or, but, and there may be one of my future, I don’t know yet. Still a couple of pieces of exercise equipment. But I saw maybe a sauna,, I put a walk-in Infrared Sauna in my walking closet, you know, I converted it to it. And that really does good for, detox. So that’s probably my favorite thing, for my 30-minute workout in the afternoon, I sit for 30 minutes in the sauna and then go into a cold shower. You know, so the hot, cold, hot-cold contrast is another big fat burning, you know?

So also I would probably say, just being enamored, or really into the information part of it, right, like listening toa podcast, podcast or a big thing.I don’t go a day without listening to a podcast.

Dr. Joel: Right? And it’s interesting for you, you enjoy learning and implement and doing what would you say to someone that is skeptical? Like, yeah, you know, I don’t know if this is for me, but was really hurting and really, suffering from their health? What would you say to kind of give them words of encouragement or motivation for them?

Joe: Well being it for Chicago. I’ll use a Michael Jordan analogy, you know, arguably, one of the best basketball if not the best basketball player ever. Even Michael Jordan me as a coach, get help. I mean, we don’t know it all there’s, there’s so you know, I’ve been down so many rabbit holes and, it’s not even been, 36 months yet, November will be 36 months since I started my journey and it seems like it’s been 10 years is,, chasing, you know, rabbit holes. And, you know, and learning different stuff, and then you know, I’ll listen to a podcast and whoever’s giving the podcast will give the research where they found that, you know, they’re there. And then you go, then you go to the Harvard University and, you know, chase down the research to see if the guy’s you know, telling you the truth, you know, and you could just take it so many different ways. I would say, you know, one, one step at a time, you know, correct your diet, exercise, and then seek medical professional help.

Dr. Joel Yeah,  And I also with Michael Jordan to I don’t know how many shots he missed, but it doesn’t matter, right, because he missed every shot you didn’t take. Right. But, you know, all the shots that he did take, he still missed a lot of them too, right. And it was still the greatest.\

Joe: Another one of the things I like to live by is knowledge is power, but the action is the King. if you don’t take action, and if you try something that doesn’t work, what do you do? You know, try something else. I don’t have any kids. But I tell my sisters, who, who refused to listen to me, some of my advice, you know, you’ve got what happens if you have your son the first time he tried to walk if he didn’t walk? Would you have given up giving up? No, no, my son’s gonna walk until he learns how to walk. Right? Well, the same thing, you know, if you try something that doesn’t work, you got to change the strategy.

Dr. Joel Yeah, that’s the beauty of the just not putting your mind into the interpretation of AI like a kid doesn’t think when they’re learning to walk, like, Oh, I stink. I didn’t walk like people don’t like me. They don’t have like, there’s a really good book, Joe. It’s called why zebras don’t get ulcers. And what it talks about his, say, out on the Serengeti lane, after you know, you just have to be the faster than the slowest zebra, right in terms of being alive. But it’s not like after like, say, just got chased. They have like a social, you know, a network of, hey, let’s have a, let’s have a, like a group meeting where we talk about We almost got eaten from that lion and right, really, how did you feel about it? And how did I feel about it? It’s just, they’re, they flip the switch, they’re on to the next, you know, like, Okay, I gotta get some water, I got it, you know, I got it. And I think that’s a big part of what messes us up to is, you know, that kid who walks doesn’t think about Oh, like all the attachment of the stress itself of not working out the way we wanted it to, there’s not that whole mind head thing into it as well. And I think you’ve identified that I think in terms of I just, I want to be happy, I want to help other people, I want to see how far I can push this with my own house. And I’m really happy to hear where you’re at, you know, it’s really awesome.

Joe: You know, another thing I’ve learned is the human body is amazing. And it has amazing healing powers, you know, if you just look at the animal world, I mean, we could we go to a doctor, what happens if, you know, two animals get in a fight one guy and one animal gets hurt, there’s no doctor, you know, they go off and lay down somewhere and heal, you know. So I, you know, I, I have, you know, no perceived concept, you know, what should happen? You know, I mean, like I said, Every day is an adventure. And, you know, I assumed for the possibility, you know, right?

Dr. Joel” Yeah, and I think that’s another good point, too, Joe is, is that the body is really self-healing, just kind of get out of its way. And a lot of the times less is more, like, you know, if you have less iron overload, and you have less oxalate overload, then your body will have a better way of healing on its own. It’s not like we have to teach the body how that’s the scary thing, especially what’s going on with today’s day and age with the viral infection. No one’s really talking about how to boost the immune system naturally, based on a healthy lifestyle and mindset. They’re talking more about let’s come up with the secret potion vaccine, and we know more than the body knows, and we can heal the body more than the body can. When the body itself is a self-healing mechanism. You just got to give it the right information. And that’s what you’re doing. That’s what you’re doing. So awesome stuff. Joe. Any last words that you want to want to add? I mean, we got your email, we’ll put that in the show notes if people want to look further into katsu training, katsu training, and even coaching from the level of coaching that you can do at the level that you can do it when they hear this podcast or any other attending. commentaries you’d like Joe. It’s a pleasure too, you know, to work with you, I still remember our first call. And I was, I always, you know, I, I say this Joe, I don’t like to like, and today’s day and age, especially as I get older, I know better now to say no more often than say yes. And I have the ability to work with people that I want to, I’m not going to care more than they are going to care. But I also want it to be where, like, I’m really excited to help because I know there are a couple of things that are missing, and this is going to make a huge difference. And if I could help him and he can help other people, I’m helping other people. So I get that feeling as well. And I’m really proud of you with where you’re at now. It’s always a pleasure to hear and hear you talk and what you’re doing and at one point in our life, I’d love to see your toy room sort of speak in terms of your biohacking and everything that you have going on. 

Joe: Actually, you’re gonna see it this afternoon. I’m going to go do my zone, zoom call on my phone.

Dr. Joel:  Okay, cool. Awesome. All right. Well, Joe, listen, I gotta run. But I appreciate you helping us today sharing your story. The listeners are gonna really resonate with it. And I look forward to hearing about how much better you continue to improve.

Joel; Thank you, Dr. Joel. 

Dr. Joel All right. Thanks, Joe.

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