Adrenal Fatigue and Genetic Pathways You Need To Know…With Dr. Bob Miller


Dr. Joel Rosen: All right. Hello, everyone. And welcome back to another edition of the less stressed life where our goal is to teach exhausted and burnt out adults the truth about adrenal fatigue so that they can get their health back quickly. And today’s a real pleasure for me and you because Bob Miller is a mentor of mine, whatever he says is something that’s going to be cutting edge, it’s going to be helpful, it’s going to give you clues and puzzle pieces that you’re missing to only make the picture clearer and brighter and ultimately help you get your health back. So Bob Miller is a traditional natural pass specializing in the field of genetics specific nutrition, he earned his traditional natural Pathak degree from Trinity School of Natural Health and as a Board Certified through the AMA, in 1993, he opened the Tree of Life practice, and he has served as a traditional mat natural path for 27 years. For the past several years, he has been engaging exclusively with functional nutritional genetic variants and related research specializing in nutritional support for those with chronic Lyme. He’s an educator, a researcher, a nutritional supplement for major formulator, or a medic and software creator, and ultimately a passionate guy to interview to get some insight. So, Bob, thank you so much for being here today. I really do appreciate it.


Dr. Bob Miller: Oh, it’s my pleasure. We always have fun talking about this stuff geeking out, as we say, and trying to figure out these pathways that are so important, particularly with the changing environment that we’re in the changing health challenges we’re in. It’s, I think, more critical than ever, that we understand some of these pathways and how they impact us.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, absolutely. And you’re really what’s great about what you do, Bob is not only are you in the trenches, you’re also in the sort of the front lines, but also in the back lines. So you have a really unique perspective on all of this information. And I always like to start Bob with your own story. So a lot of the people that we interview or many healthcare practitioners in general, they have their own hero’s journey in terms of why they do what they do. And our audience is exhausted, burnt out. Adults, why don’t you tell us a little bit of your background story?


Dr. Bob Miller: Sure. Well, my first career actually was as an executive in the telecommunications industry, very stressful. And at a very young age, in my early 30s, when I had a six-year-old and a four-year-old, I started getting all sorts of colitis. And it got worse and worse. And worse. I ended up in the hospital, I was there for 21 long days. And towards the end, I had lost half my blood, then I hemorrhaged. And it was really a question of whether I’d see the morning, I’ll never forget the look on my wife’s face thinking Am I going to have a dead husband by morning with a six-year-old and four years old. And the response from the medical folks was, well, we need to cut out the colon.

And of course, I’m a Pennsylvania Dutch background, so we’re known to be a little stubborn. I was like, No, I don’t think so. And of course, they got angry, you’re gonna be begging us to cut this out, you’d be in the hospital a couple of weeks out of the year. You know, you’re basically an idiot for not doing this. Well, it was like humor me. And I really didn’t know what I was doing. But I just had this instinct of, there’s got to be a better way. And that’s when I started looking at some, you know, some of the old-time herbalism of, of, you know, slippery elm and things like that. And for whatever reason, I went into remission. And I’m 66 now, so I guess that was maybe, you know, 30 some years ago, and no, 40 years ago. And no 30 some years ago, and my colon is just doing fine. No, it’s interesting, just this summer with all of the stress, I had relapsed. And interestingly, some of the things that we’re going to be talking about today was once again, what got me back into remission. So and I think that might be part of my advantage that by having an electronics background, you know, I think in schematics, I think in pathways, and that’s the knowledge I’m bringing to the genomics looking at the pathway. So that’s a little of my story. And so that’s how I got into this, had it not been for that I still probably be an executive in telecommunications.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, I didn’t know that, Bob. And what’s interesting about that is is that when you have that story, it’s also a mission-driven purpose of Hey, had I had that removed, there’s no telling if my health would have gotten better, because I probably wouldn’t have addressed the reasons why it was having to be removed in the first place. And also having the motivation of well if it were other people that are out if it happened to me, who else could this have happened to and I need to wear that as an as a badge for me to guide me as to what my purpose is. So thanks for sharing. I didn’t know that about You and it kind of gives a little bit of background in terms of that fighting spirit, the not taking just the traditional approach. So, so then Okay, then as far as what we just talked about, in terms of you have developed a lot of information and research and pathways that help educate providers. And as you know, we’re we are exhausted you mentioned 2020 has just been a crazy year with so many things going on between the elections and the protesting, not to mention the virus. And so you’ve come up with a really amazing breakthrough in how the Knox enzyme and what cycle you call it, and how that relates to adrenal function. So why don’t you give us sort of the beginning, middle, and end on on on where you are and what you’ve where you’ve come from, on that whole pathway?


Dr. Bob Miller:  Sure, yeah, we’ve been researching for years, and I believe some of these last things we found, maybe the most significant. So I’m going to show some charts in a moment. But for now, I just want to talk about our immune system. I mean, what a miracle we are. I mean, it’s truly astonishing. That weed fats, carbohydrates, proteins, drink water, breathe air, and exposed to sunlight. And everything gets made from that. I mean, it’s just mind-boggling. Although I, you know, live and breathe this every day, I’m still in awe at the miracle of the human organism, just astonishing. Now, your DNA is what makes the enzymes that take one substance and turns it into another. And when we have genetic mutations, or, you know, what type might be called a snip, or some people are now seeing, let’s just call it what’s not typical, your DNA may not make some of those enzymes, as well as they, should. And substance a doesn’t get turned into substance B. And that’s really the essence of what we’re looking at.

But I often refer to it as the 3d chess game played underwater. Because this is so complex, there aren’t simple answers. And I think we’re going to look back someday and say, Oh, this magic mutation means this and we need to do that. I think we’re going to look back someday and saying, that really was quite naive. Now, one of the things that we’re seeing from a stressed-out standpoint when I talk to elementary school teachers who have taught just five years, and I say to them, compare and contrast your students today versus five years ago, every one of them tells me that children are more stressed, they’re more anxious, that can’t focus. They’re more irritable. If you look at the Medical statistics, autoimmune disease among children is skyrocketing. Just think about diabetes. When I was a kid, we used to call it adult-onset diabetes. Now children are getting inflammatory bowel diseases skyrocketing among children. On the autoimmune is just going up and up and up. When I talk to college professors and say, tell me about the freshmen, it’s like, oh, boy, particularly the boys. There are no flakes, okay? Everything upsets them.

They need safe spaces, you know, they, you know, I need a coloring book. It’s like, seriously, dude. And it’s not their fault. It’s because of what’s happening. So, as you know, you know, our genetics aren’t changing. I mean, we aren’t any different today than we were 50 years ago, or 100 years ago. But I believe what’s happening in our environment is changing. And I think we’re gonna look back someday and say, oops, to a lot of things. You know, for example, many years ago, buildings were burning down, people would die. So we found asbestos. It was like, cool. We’re not going to lose lives, because of buildings burning down, then we found oops, asbestos.

Then we came across lead, hey, this makes your paint better. This makes your engine work better. Oops, you know, lead poisoning, which is now a big deal. So I think we’re going to look back someday on some of the things we’re doing today and say, what are we thinking? Okay, for example, we give our animals growth hormones, so they get fatter faster, and we can make more money. Whoo-hoo. However, that gets passed on to us. And we’ll talk a little bit about him toward a tapa G and how that increases mTOR which is inflammatory. When I was a kid, you know, we had the milkman came with glass jars, glass bottles. Now everything’s plastic. And those plastics, as we all know, are xenoestrogens. So what’s happening again, when I was 12 years old, the girls I went to school with like, little girls. We know what they’re looking like today. And we’re seeing that you know, male, fish, and frogs are getting

And, you know, 10% of the population has always been gay. But the transgender, sexual dysphoria is just going through the roof. When I talk to college professors, they’ll say there’s such a dramatic increase in the students, so don’t call me he or she called me, we they are them. So we’re doing that, then we’re using glyphosate and glyphosate. If you listen to Stephanie Senath, she talks about how that is impacting glycine. And that’s needed is a process where we make something called heme. And we can get into that a little bit. But that is needed for detoxification, returning our sulfites into sulfates, and you’re cytochrome p 450. Phase One detox. So we’re putting glyphosate on everything. And of course, you know, the makers of it said, not a problem, this is safe. Now we’re finding oops, okay. And the same way with our polyester clothing, 92% of the American Water Supply now has no estrogen from our polyester clothing is estrogen. And then we’re genetically modifying our foods. And we’re processing our foods, taking out all the nutrients. And then you know, one of the ones that’s controversial, and that is electromagnetic fields from our cell phones and our Wi-Fi. You know, when people pick up their cell phone, like, well, this is ridiculous, this can’t hurt anything. I don’t feel anything. Okay?

And the reason they don’t, it’s because it’s a very low level. But this is a question, not a statement, you know, we’re gonna have to see without doing any experiments, is 20 473 65, year after year, EMF having an impact on us. And if we have time, we can get into that. Because what it does, it pushes more calcium into the cells that can be combined with nitric oxide to make something called peroxynitrite. So I believe we have to look at again, our children, you know, now that they’re in school, and some of their schools, they’ve got Wi-Fi in the ceiling, they’ve got their iPads. You know, when I was a kid, you know, we used to go play in the woods and slosh around in the stream. Now they’re playing with their computers, constantly being exposed to Wi-Fi. I hear horror stories of kids putting their cell phones under their pillow because they want to hear if a text message comes in. I think we’re also going to look back someday on, you know, Bluetooth in our ears. It’s like, what are we thinking? Putting radio transmitters six inches from our brain, you know? And then, you know, nobody wants to stink. So we use antiperspirants. Well, guess what they’re made out of aluminum? I think someday we’re gonna look back and say, what are we thinking, smearing aluminum into our armpits? Because aluminum up-regulates inflammation, it down-regulates making something called tetrahydrobiopterin for B h4. And if we don’t have enough of that we’re depressed. So how many people are wired tired, anxious, and depressed? Way too many. And I believe what we’ve done is we’ve done this to ourselves. So why do some people seem to be okay, and others not doing well? Well, I believe that the people who are not doing well in today’s environment, have genetic mutations that wouldn’t have mattered 50 to 75 years ago, but matter today, so for example, if you don’t, if your calcium voltage channels are a little weak, you’re going to be more impacted by EMF.

If your Knox enzymes to give an immune response are overactive in their little stimulated a little too much. That’s what we’re going to talk about today they go into overactivity, if you don’t make enough Bluetooth ion, before we had all this chemical exposure, it didn’t matter. Now it does. And I also need to talk about mycotoxins a little bit. There’s some concern because we’re making our houses tighter, and, and we’re not using plaster anymore. Some of the materials that are being used like drywall, if they get wet, they absorb moisture, and they’re making mycotoxins. I know Dr. Klinghardt believes that EMF will strengthen mycotoxins. So all of these are putting an inflammatory burden on us increasing something called mast cells and also some charts on that. So I believe what we’ve done is we have created the proverbial perfect storm. And purely speculative here, but there is some thought that if COVID would have hit 50 years ago, we might be having a not so nice flu season versus pandemic, because then you know, what’s taking people out with COVID is not just the flu, it’s the cytokine storm, which is exactly what we’re going to talk about today. So I am getting a little concerned that inadvertently, or maybe you know, without enough caution, we’ve done some things to our environment that have really harmed us. And by the way, I’m not some you know, tree-hugging here. That’s, you know,

but I think we have to be solid scientists here. And recognize that we’ve done potentially some things that cumulatively might be having an impact on us, and then harming those who have a genetic weakness that again, you know, some of the children that are autistic today, we have to ask the question, had they been born 50 years ago? What would they be like? I would hypothesize, they might be high strung, high spirited, not autistic. I mean, I can’t think of any other reason why we would see autism going from one out of 1000, to maybe one out of 45, looking like it’s going to increase because nothing’s changed. Genetically, we’re no different today than we were 50 years ago. But we are exposed to much more toxins. And I think we’ve, we’re going to look back someday and say, oops, and hopefully, we’ll be wise enough to start making some major changes, because I am a little concerned, what’s going to happen to us. I just had a client the other day, who said they went to get their teeth cleaned. And their dentist said, we can’t believe it, we are seeing so many people with chipped teeth, and jaw problems, because they’re clenching their teeth. Everyone’s in a state of anxiety. And you had mentioned earlier, you know, just turn on the news for 10 minutes. And people are really becoming unglued over everything. And, you know, there’s from an I don’t want to make any political statements Other than that, you know, political science used to, you know, argue policy, but still, go out to dinner together.

Now, it’s like, I want to hurt you. And you know, that the political differences, the racial differences, the, you know, the, you know, the cultural differences, they just seem to be colliding where everyone is just angrier, more sensitive. And even if I, if I stopped for a cup of coffee, and I just talked to the clerk at the store, I say no, how are you finding people? Like, Oh, my gosh, you know, they throw the money at me, they’re angry, they’re frustrated. They’re seeing seem to be this level of frustration that I believe I mean, there are multiple causes. Somebody says they have the answer. I wouldn’t believe it. But I believe there are multiple reasons. Primarily, we’re increasing our mast cells, we’re increasing our history, and we’re increasing our dopamine, we’re increasing our glutamate in our neuroinflammation. And I don’t think there is a simple answer, you know, if somebody says it’s this thing or this snip, it might be a factor. But I’m afraid that this is multifactorial, many, many factors coming together. And I wish there were easy answers. But I don’t think we have any of those. But we have to look at all of the causes and try to start addressing this piece at a time. Or I’m afraid that this could continue to be a downward spiral. So after that, are you ready to get into the pathways?

Dr. Joel Rosen:  I just want to make one comment, which is, which is just more of a testament to you, because you bring it into such ease is a very complex subject. And they’re like you said, 3d chess game played underwater. And Bob, you really have a gift in terms of bringing it into a very understandable almost like how do we not know this kind of way? Like, it’s like putting it right in front of us like, Yeah, all the things that we say, oops, for, it’s almost like crazy that we’re doing such blatantly harmful things. Number one, the other thing I have to notice about you is just the ability to not only crystallize it but not be overwhelmed by it, because it’s disconcerting. And it gets to the point where even if you’re not a tree hugger sort of way, you get concerned that you can get past that point of no return. And that can be very, very overwhelming. And I think it’s a lesson for exhausted burnt-out people to bring energy about it, where that’s part of the protocol of putting everything together and customizing a recovery program, which we can talk about once you go through the cycles. So that you maybe tell us a little bit about Okay, now that we know about this, what can we do about this? And one of them is just how you conduct your own, your own post, you know, your own way of not being overwhelmed by it. So So kudos in a lot of ways. So why don’t you give us an understanding of what we know about how how the NOx enzyme and the stress response has so many multilayers to them?

Dr. Bob Miller: Absolutely. Well, what I’d like to do, I’m going to do a screen share here. And what I’d like to do is I’d like to share a screen here. That you’re seeing this Screen Okay, there.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, we can see it.

Dr. Bob Miller: Okay, so what you’ll see here in the dead center, and I’ll try to draw here, if I can, let me get my, my drawing tool here. There we go. So right here in the center, there’s an enzyme called NOx NADPH oxidase. And I’ve been talking about this for a long time. And the reason I’ve been talking about this for a long time, I believe it’s central to what is occurring with so many things that we’re seeing today. Now, what this stands for is NADPH oxidase. And what that means is that when we’re faced with a pathogen, a bacteria, or something else, again, what a miracle we are, we take iron, or we take oxygen from iron, and we take an electron from NADPH.

And this Knox enzyme makes a free radical called superoxide in hydrogen peroxide, and that makes something called mast cells. Now, these mast cells are white blood cells that protect us, if we didn’t have these mast cells, we would die of infection, we wouldn’t survive. This is what protects us, then these mast cells say, Okay, I’m going to make somewhat are called cytokines inflammatory molecules. And I’m going to make some histamine. And we’re really going to kick up a fuss here, and we’re going to kill this pathogen. And again, if we didn’t have this, we die of infection. So this is not bad, critical for survival. Now, what happens is, I am really intrigued by a molecule called NADPH. NADPH is made inside the body and we can have genetic mutations, we don’t make enough of it. It wears completely two different hats. One, it helps make something called nitric oxide down here in the bottom right. nitric oxide is very, very important for us to make to have good blood flow. And if we don’t have enough nitric oxide, we’re going to have high blood pressure and all kinds of things related to our cardiovascular system. So we need to have adequate nitric oxide.

And you can see here that NADPH is a cofactor to make that. So if you don’t have enough nitric oxide, many times cold hands and feet. Most people have never heard of this antioxidant called thrive toxin, but it’s a really important one. And again, it needs NADPH to keep recycling this so it keeps doing its job. Many people have heard of glutathione and glutathione is the master antioxidant. And after it does its job, it becomes oxidized. And again, we need NADPH to recycle it. Okay. So if we don’t have enough NADPH, we are not going to recycle that antioxidant. Now we also make something called heme. Yes, that’s kind of like your hemoglobin, and that he needs to turn into ferritin. Once again, we need NADPH we need something called Billy Verdun that calms down mast cells NADPH. And NADPH is used in a lot of processes. But a final one we’re looking at here is how we stimulate the production of antioxidants. But look at what happens here. NADPH does all those good things. But when the knocks enzyme says we’ve got a foreign invader you know, it’s kind of like the National Guard, it stops what it’s doing and goes fights a battle. Now when we have a short infection, again, without this we dive infection, so we shut off our nonstop, shut off. Slow down is an antioxidant. And it took me a while to figure that out what makes sense when you have a desire to kill something, you want a temporary reduction in your antioxidants. So we go in for the kill. And then ideally we go back to homeostasis and the antioxidants start doing their job.

But if you look at this chart here, you’ll see that EMF, sulfites, dopamine homocysteine, something called aldosterone, air pollution. And I’m hearing from so many of my clients in California who are struggling from the air pollution glutamate, the iron, something called oxalates, high histamine, and upregulated mtorr. All stimulate this excessively. So we make superoxide. We make hydrogen peroxide. We make mast cells, we make cytokines, and we make histamine. Now, so many people have high histamine problems. And if someone’s interested, they want to hear an entire lecture on histamine. If you just go on YouTube and search Dr. Jill Carnahan, who’s you know, extremely well known.

We’ve done a couple of interviews, and we just did a whole interview on history where I go through all the problems with history. It was done in C it would have been done in late September or November. Mid-October. So this history and has to be broken down. So there’s a molecule called cortisol that is made by the adrenal glands. And it actually comes from progesterone. So if we’re low in progesterone or have a genetic mutation that we don’t convert progesterone to cortisol, or the adrenal glands are weak, we don’t make enough cortisol. It’s not on this chart. But cortisol also turns into cortisone, which is anti-inflammatory. So why people sometimes take prednisone? cortisol inhibits histamine. So this is why so many people are in adrenal fatigue because they’re just making so much histamine.

And we’ll get into that. There’s also an enzyme called dynamin oxidase that breaks down histamine. People can have mutations in this diamine oxidase if they don’t make enough of it. And then sometimes people think, well, I need to be healthy. So I’m going to start eating some healthy foods like kombucha, and miso, and sauerkraut. They’re all high histamine foods. So if you have some difficulty with this enzyme, and you start eating high histamine foods, you can actually make things worse. When that happens, when somebody thinks they’re making dietary changes to feel better, and they feel worse, then there’s an enzyme called histamine and methyltransferase.


That clears histamine, you can have genetic mutations on here, or we need a cofactor called Sammy that’s part of methylation. And if we don’t have enough, Sammy, it doesn’t matter whether this gene is mutated or not, we’re not going to clear the instrument. And then when we make mast cells that will actually inhibit histamine. And then finally, there’s a process called glucuronidation. The clear system. So if we have anything that would be overproducing the histamine, and any of these pathways that don’t clear it, that histamine can go high. And so many people are having allergies. And people tend to think of histamine as just a runny nose. But it affects the mental state can be excited Tory, it can affect the cardiovascular system, it can affect the digestive system. back to my original question, what was my health challenge I just found out recently I had high histamine?

Then there’s also I’m very excited about this, there’s an enzyme called HDC histidine decarboxylase. That turns an amino acid called histidine, into histamine. And lo and behold, that’s why I had my flare this summer. I had upregulated HDC. So I started doing some iodine did some things to convert, not allowed testosterone to go into estrogen, started drinking some green tea, and reducing some of the high histidine foods. And within days, I went back into remission again, probably induced by stress by everything that was occurring.

And then the mo a gene can be difficult as well mutated that we don’t call the clear the history. Now we used to think that you know, histamine was allergies, and let’s just take some antihistamines and all will be well. However, I do have a little concern when you take antihistamine because one of my questions is, well, if you block it, that’s what they do. They’re blockers. Where else does it go and watch does it do? So we might put a roadblock up and it may just go somewhere else? So and I histamines are fine. But interestingly, long term use of them depletes the D o enzyme that breaks down yesterday. I hate when that happens. Now, here’s what’s really exciting here, doctor. When this was all based upon peer-reviewed literature, we didn’t make this stuff up, that when we make history, then it will come back and it will stimulate an enzyme called random. And you know, if anybody’s ever studied medically they know it’s the RAs system, where renin stimulates something called angiotensin one, angiotensin two, and then aldosterone.

And Rennen is stimulated by eye glucose. Free radicals are called superoxide. We’ve already spoken about mast cells and histamine, dopamine, or testosterone, all of those will stimulate this angiotensin one and two are inflammatory, and basil, constrictive. There’s an enzyme called Ace, two that takes these and puts them into something anti-inflammatory. And so violative aldosterone will cause you to hold on to sodium excrete potassium. And then this angiotensin two will stimulate interleukin six. I am really stunned by how many things interleukin six will cause now it’s modulatory. So it can have some benefit. But again, an excess Problem. interleukin six is behind depression, suicidal ideations, diabetes, dementia. And the list goes on and on. Oh, inflammatory bowel disease is all created by excess interleukin six. But look what interleukin six does, it stimulates the NOx enzyme. And then Whoa, that ox enzyme stimulates interleukin six. So one of the things we’re looking at is Do people have genetic mutations in Rennen. And when they do, they’re actually gain a function, that they go faster. I’m very concerned with mutations in h2. And what I’m finding in our consultations is that when people have mutations in h2, which is a lack of function, we’re not turning these inflammatory vasoconstrictive molecules into anti-inflammatory vasodilating. Now, what’s interesting COVID comes in using h2. And so consequently, that’s why for some people, they get COVID, they didn’t even know they had it. Other people have mild symptoms, and other people are gasping for breath and dying. Likely multiple causes. And I’m not saying this is all of it. But if Ace two is already weak, COVID comes in, we could theoretically be making more interleukin six and NOx. And there is literature out there that the cytokine storm, not COVID itself, but the cytokine storm is related upregulation of NOx to and interleukin six plays a role. Now bradykinin is also getting into that. I don’t think we’ll have time for that. But h2 also breaks down bradykinin. So it’s interesting. So as COVID comes in and weekends this adds to that creates a problem. So we’ve got histamine stimulating this. Then as we stimulate the Knox enzyme, we make superoxide will combine with nitric oxide to make something called peroxynitrite, which is very oxidizing, depletes your glutathione. And the superoxide comes back and stimulates the retina enzyme. So what do we have here we have what’s called a positive feedback loop.

That this thing just feeds upon itself, and look who some of the culprits are mycotoxins and again, we’re concerned mycotoxins are getting stronger borrelia Lyme disease, so we find the sickest of the sick are the ones that have Lyme, and mycotoxins, stimulating these mast cells. Now, just as a side note, these mast cells will stimulate something called interleukin 13. And if there are mutations on here, this will come back and further stimulate the mast cells and spin this thing even faster. So I’ve named this the home cycle based on a relative of mine who had a lot of influence. And I just gave it that name because the Miller cycle just didn’t have a ring to it. And then we’ve also come up with the name the NADPH steel, where this precious NADPH is being overused by the NOx enzyme to make the mast cells, as we just pointed out, there’s NADPH is needed for all those other important things. So there can be genetic mutations that you don’t make enough NADPH then if you’re stealing it to make all this inflammation, you’re in a positive feedback loop. Now, interestingly, aluminum also stimulates the NOx enzyme. It’s why it’s used as an adjunct in some vaccinations. So what are we doing? We’re smearing aluminum chlorohydrate into our armpits? What were we thinking? So I would encourage anyone who’s using an antiperspirant to give serious thought to changing their mind on that. And I was just at a conference over the weekend, where more pathways more and more. More antioxidants are impacted by aluminum. And just think what we did, we drank Coca Cola out of aluminum cans for a while. Brilliant. And we sometimes have aluminum pots and pans. So an aluminum will also inhibit making a bH four, which is needed to make your nitric oxide. And if we don’t have nitric oxide made, we get more superoxide made. So again, we’ve just created this perfect storm. So I believe there are so many things stimulating the NOx enzyme. Interestingly, I just learned at the conference this weekend. Vitamin D calms this down. Vitamin A stimulates it. So particularly if we’re concerned about the cytokine storm I mean, we need vitamin A, but maybe taking excess to think that we’re going to protect our immune system may not be wise. And then m tour with one, we can talk about that a little bit, but that is the growth of new cells. And without that life doesn’t exist. But wit needs to be balanced with a toffee g the cleaning of the cells. And again, we don’t have time to get into all of it. But if we don’t have this m Torna tapa g balanced, this m terrible, stimulate the Knox enzyme. So when I said there are no easy answers, you can see now why now, what I think is happening a lot of time, I think when you look at this whole pattern here, I believe this is happening. You know, a lot of people upregulated, NOx upregulated mast cells up-regulated histamine, you know, coming back here and spinning this around. But there are probably 50 different ways this could occur. If you’ve got a life estate exposure, and you don’t turn your soul fights into sulfates, or you have genetic mutations that you don’t turn yourself fight into sulfate. It could be the soul fights that are stimulating this. If you are living in California, and you’re breathing all this air pollution from the fires, it could be this that’s stimulating it. If you’re not methylating properly, and your homocysteine is high, it could be the high homocysteine. If you have Clostridium or you have genetic mutations in your dopamine and norepinephrine, it could be the dopamine. If you’re of English or Irish descent, oftentimes they over absorb iron. And that could be an issue. Or many times northern Europeans and Germans have high glutamate, which will not only stimulate NOx but inhibit Ace to or if you have spring and fall allergies, the histamine will create it. Or if you live in a moldy house, or you’re exposed to so many xenobiotics that are, you know, toxins or xenoestrogens, or have Lyme disease, or, you know, have your router in your bedroom,

or live next to a cell tower. There are just so many things environmentally, then if you have genetic mutations and Ace, if you have genetic mutations and H marks that calm this down. If you don’t make enough superoxide dismutase if you don’t make enough glutathione. If you overproduce histamine from histidine, or as we showed earlier, have weakness in any of the pathways that clear histamine, those can all be contributing factors. So I wish I said, and by the way, here’s the magic bullet. We don’t have any of those. And if somebody tells you that be very suspicious, because there isn’t a magic bullet to fix this. So I think what we have to do is we have to get away from the pill for the ill and look at the person. And you know, one of the ways that you can tell if your adrenals are tired, you know, you can do cortisol tests, it’ll measure your cortisol. Not every case of Potts is adrenal fatigue, but many times it is if your blood pressure drops and you get dizzy when you stand up, that can be a factor. If you have vinegar, and all of a sudden you’re sneezing and feel terrible. You may not be breaking down your histamine. If you eat beef or pork chops and you feel terrible. You may have your histidine to histamine conversion being upregulated. So there are just so many answers. And if somebody says Bob, what do I do? My answer would be I don’t know. We have to look at that person’s genome. Did you live in a moldy house? Did you live next to farms where you had a well and possibly you’re drinking glyphosate? Do you have genetic mutations in the heme cycle? Is your homocysteine too high? Those are all the things that I think health professionals need to be looking at. Because we don’t have simple answers. And unfortunately, we can try to do things that we think are helpful, and they can actually be harmful. So sometimes when people are inflamed, it’s like why needle if I own so I’m going to take some and acetylcysteine Well, if you’ve got genetic mutations here, or mycotoxins that inhibited that cysteine can actually be inflammatory. So then we think, Okay, I need some blood if I am. So, Master antioxidant can’t do any harm there. If you don’t take your oxidized glutathione back to the reduced because of NADPH deficiency. Hold on to your head here Dr. Rosen. The glue of iron will combine with oxygen to make superoxide, nitric oxide to make peroxynitrite. How paradoxical is this under the wrong conditions taking lithium-ion could actually happen? oxidize your DNA and deplete your glutathione. So you think you’re doing good, taking glutathione and you’re actually backfiring. And then there’s a big trend towards an ad. So, you know, you’ll hear lots of podcasts on an ad, the youth molecule. Absolutely true. It supports your PARP enzymes. It supports mTOR versus Etapa G, it helps you make your antioxidants. But if you’ve got mutations and then qL one, you can be stuck up here, which is inflammatory. And pot Francis I have which I think we’ll find to be true. If you take too much NADPH or make too much NADPH. Well, this is upregulated. You can feed the inflammation. Because this wears two hats. I often speak to physicians who do an ad infusion. And for some people, it’s like, oh my gosh, the best thing I ever did. And other people will say the worst thing I ever did. Same with Coronavirus, the best thing I ever did. The worst thing I ever did. Same way with methyl Foley. People see I have MTHFR Oh my gosh, I need Methylfolate if you don’t have enough NADPH methyl folate is actually inflammatory and excited Tory.

So we can backfire in so many ways. And we talked about, you know, fermented foods, people think I’m going to rebuild my gut with fermented foods. But if they already have high histamine, and they don’t have enough, do the fermented foods backfire. And then finally, sometimes people say, Well, I’m gonna eat healthily, I’m going to do smoothies, I’m going to do spinach, kale and beet smoothies. And they’re very high in oxalates. And if you have a leaky gut, and you don’t break down the oxalates, you’ve just made yourself worse by eating healthy. So that’s why we call it the 3d chess game played underwater. no easy answers. And that’s why I believe health professionals need to be measuring the DNA, looking where there’s potential and the keyword is always a potential weakness, and trying to step in and support it, so that we can, you know, bring homeostasis back. So we don’t make the mast cells, the histamine, the superoxide, deplete our glucose ion, we’re at our adrenals jack up our glutamate. And then finally, when when we have inflammation or infection that can inhibit your glutamate to GABA conversion glutamates. What makes you intelligent, highly motivated, go-getter.

GABA is the Don’t worry, relax, be happy. But when we have inflammation or infection, or mutations in the gut enzyme, or deficiencies in B six and magnesium, many things can go wrong here, not just snips. You know, I’m not just a snip guy that you know, the snips are everything. If you’ve got mutations, and you’d have up to six deficiency, and magnesium deficiency is not going to work. But you could have no snips at all perfect. But if you’re depleted in V six and magnesium, and you’ve got inflammation or infection that get enzyme, it doesn’t matter whether you have perfect snips or not. It’s not going to work in that glutamates not going to turn into the job. So am I all about the snips? Yeah, but you got to look well beyond that. It’s not just whether you have snips. Do you have the cofactors? Is it being overwhelmed? Is there anything that’s suppressing it? So it makes it so complex? So that’s why saying I need to take this nutrient-based upon this snip is flawed. We’ve got to look at a much bigger picture than that. So I believe we are what we’re seeing today why people are so stressed out, is we’ve got excess glutamate. We’ve got excess histamine, and we have excess dopamine. And I’ll wrap up my thoughts on dopamine because dopamine will stimulate the rennet enzymes. So one of the interesting

enzymes that break down dopamine is called something called co Mt. And, again, you can have mutations on CMT. But if you’ve got extra estrogen and low testosterone, testosterone support CMT, estrogen suppresses the CMT enzyme is not going to work, whether you’ve got mutations or not. And then if you start eating a lot of cheese, Tyrion foods, or you start taking boatloads, of course, attend because you think that’s gonna break down your history and you can be jacking up your dopamine. And then Sammy is a cofactor. So again, if everything’s perfect here, but you don’t have the cofactor it’s like having a brand new car without gas. So there’s a lot that can go wrong over here. So we can’t just look at CMT, and say oh, because I have to empty this or that I’ll never forget I had a client too was having, you know, headaches felt terrible. And he was eating grapes. And cheese, which was inhibiting CMT. Now had weakness there, to begin with, testosterone was low estrogen was high was eating cheese. I don’t care what your CMT is or looking like, you’re not going to clear your dopamine. And your dopamine when it’s high makes you very irritated. And you can also have mutations in the DBH enzyme because Tritiya in the gut will also impair dopamine and norepinephrine conversion. So I hope that gave you an idea as to how many things can go wrong here. And I don’t want to be discouraging, I’m just saying, we really have to do our due diligence. And, you know, avoid some of these things. You know, make sure you don’t have mold in your house. Give serious consideration to using aluminum in your armpits. Be aware of if history and foods create a problem. You know, get your genomics done, see where you might have some functional weakness, we’re not talking about disease snips here, that’s you know, that’s what geneticists do. We’re talking about functional genomics, where you look as though some function may be off, and then taking the appropriate remedial steps. So to sum it up, I believe that because of things that we’ve done to the environment, we are overstimulating, they are over stimulating the Knox enzyme, we’re over-stimulating the mast cells were over-stimulating the histamine. It’s all feeding back to just be one vicious cycle that keeps ongoing.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Amazing, stuff. And it answers the question that I get, and I’m sure I don’t know if you get it very much. But I get it a lot is why do I need to have a genetic test? And especially for the people that listen to this podcast, Bob, they’re exhausted, they’re burnt out. And they’re usually conditioned to think about the four-point saliva test as like, well, we need to do a genetic test. And why would I need to do a genetic test? So I now have a new educational tool to tell them, which is great. And thank you so much. So okay, so then, as far as these perfect storms go, and you have these feed forwarding systems, and all of these variables that can really just continue to cause the fill in the blank problem, where the person is exhausted. And these are really the worst of the worst that we’re talking about, as you know, as you’re very familiar with the people that come to consult with you now are the ones that nobody else is helping, and they are filled with so many of these variables. So I guess the question would be, which, which is going to be a difficult answer is what do we do about it, and obviously, you get a genetic test. And you see where your potential weaknesses are, we are functional genetic test interpretation, and, and you’ve created software that can help the clinician to be able to highlight some of these areas that are the perfect storm that no one else is looking at, that they haven’t considered. And they think that the supplement is the one size fits all. And just as there’s a feed forwarding system, and a perfect storm of, of things that go bad, there’s a good, there’s hope. And there’s, there’s definitely you’ve seen amazing transformations, because those same tools and information that create perfect storms that caused the pins to go down, can still cause those pins to go up. So I guess the long-winded question in that Bob is with the software, and the intelligence of the software, which I know you’re working really hard on? How can that help someone who is suffering, and the practitioner so that they can then make a huge difference in that in that person? Given that that software is intelligent? Does that make sense? Do you understand that?

Dr. Bob Miller: Absolutely. Well, when we say when the software is intelligent, all it does is it identifies, you know, do you possibly not make enough do? Which pathway clears history and may not be as robust? You know, do you need to support the h2 enzyme? Do you need to give the person superoxide dismutase? So, you know, when I often, you know, look at people’s genomes, I’ll say we don’t look, you’re like that hard to figure out and they’ll say you’re the first person that said that? Well, and my answer is, well, I have an unfair advantage. I’m looking under the hood. And unless you’re looking under the hood, you can make some very nice guesses. But that’s all you’re doing. And you know, you can do some anti-inflammatory things and they may or may not work but I think We’re now at a point that we have to pinpoint. And you know, zero in exactly where we need to go. And, and that’s the advantage of looking at functional genomics.


Dr. Joel Rosen: Right, and also to Bob by listening to some of your old or not older in terms of your training for practitioners and some of those modules. And I remember some of your sayings in terms of you can depend, when you talk to your consults, do they want to be a little more aggressive? Do they want to put a full-court press on it? And I think it really necessitates a full-court press in all ways, in terms of understanding the entire clinical picture, and your multitasking, it’s not just a matter of taking methyl folate it’s, it’s understanding that EMF, no matter what your gene snips are, is going to constantly be stimulating the that that home cycle, knowing that inflammation is going to sedate, so many things that are going to cause that home cycle. So that’s going to be important. And just understanding that it as a practitioner, and someone who’s listening to this, it really behooves you to understand your genetics, number one, and how the environmental because you put a really nice chart together where it shows certain epigenetic or environmental things that will make that pathway work better or worse. And really, it’s so I guess the question I would have to use, how do you decide when you’re working with your really toughest stuff? The toughest case? How many things you do to full-court press the issue?


Dr. Bob Miller: Well, and that varies, you know, one thing I find interesting is that people are all over the map. I mean, I see people that are taking 20 supplements, and they have no problem with that. And if I suggest, you know, three to five, they’re like, Okay, cool. And then other people just freak out if you say you need to take more than three pills a day. So, so it’s interesting, you have to kind of get a feel for the person, you know, how aggressive they want to be. And, you know, again, I’m not a mental health person. But I believe some people have psychological blocks to getting well. And there are just some people that will just self-sabotage. And it’s like, let’s not bother. But then some people are like, hey, I want to do whatever it takes. I want to get well tell me what to do. So I want I’d want to train doctors on this. I often say let me tell you what’s harder than knowing what to do what the person will comply with. And so I’m sure you know where that as well, some people are like, Yeah, man, whatever I have to do. And others are like, Well, let me just try this one thing and one pill and see what happens. And then, and that didn’t work. And then it’s like, oh, this doesn’t work. So I’m going off to the next thing. And so anyway, you have to, it’s, I still think it’s harder to figure out what the person will do than what we need to do. But that’s, so that’s there are no easy answers to that. Some people want to do everything they can. Others are just gonna fight you tooth and nail every step. And it’s like, well, this isn’t gonna work.


Dr. Joel Rosen:  Yeah, it’s an amazing tool that is just the whole way that you look at it and educate providers, it’s changed my life and the way that I practice, I want to thank you for that. I look at priorities, and I look at removing expenses, I use the analogy, Bob of income and expenses. And if I’m a business consultant, and we’re looking at having you have a higher bottom line, it’s much easier to stop the bleeding, if you will, and get the things that you’re unnecessarily spending income on. And that just in and of itself will give you a little more disposable stuff. And then if you want to play on the other side of the coin and support a little bit more of an income, we can do multitasking like that. So just want to thank you for that. I think it’s an invaluable tool, I really feel it’s ahead of its time. And, and hopefully, more and more practitioners and patients alike, will will will use the information because really, it is the sickest of the sick, and it is only getting worse. And there’s a lot of hope in that what you’ve learned and what you’ve taught, can really, really be helpful. So before we share how we can get in contact with you, Bob, I always like to ask my guests a parting question. And that question is okay, what would the wiser Sage like Bob, tell the younger naive, bright-eyed and bushy-tailed Bob, what he needed to do to be able to help his health accelerate or have more energy or just have a healthier way of living that could have maybe springboard or avoided some really hard times. What would you tell that Bob,

Dr. Bob Miller: Well, spend a little more time relaxing and playing. That’d probably be the big one. I found that probably I was a little too intense over the years and didn’t spend enough time relaxing. But also, you know, I wish I would have known this stuff sooner. Because I, you know, I probably did shoot myself in the foot sometimes doing some of these things that we just didn’t know about. But for me personally, it would have been, you know, spend a little more time playing with the kids, you know, chill out just a little bit more. But, you know, hindsight is always 2020 as they say, I guess.

Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, well, probably too much glutamate going on there back in the day would have had to tell the younger Bob How to Clear glutamate out a little quicker.

Dr. Bob Miller: Yeah, I do have a genetic predisposition to higher glutamate. But on the other hand, that’s what’s allowed me to connect the dots.


Dr. Joel Rosen: So, right, yes. And that’s a good point in terms of the bell-shaped curve and understanding that it’s not that knock cycle is not bad. It’s necessary for survival. But too much or too little of it is the chronic problem of health problems. So okay, so as if I’m a provider, why don’t you share with us? And also, even if I’m, if I’m not a provider, and everything you said makes sense? How did we get in contact with you? And what do you offer in terms of education?


Dr. Bob Miller: Well, the for the practitioners only, if you’re, you know, a licensed practitioner or a certified practitioner, you can go to functional genomic analysis, or up DNA supplementation calm, and you can request a 30-day free trial and try it out. Now, also, on that website, there’s a, there’s a course a certification course, first couple modules are free. So this isn’t for everybody. This is not for the faint of heart. If somebody wants a two-page report that tells you what to do. This isn’t it. This is for the very serious practitioner, who wants to learn, wants to dig. If anybody has any questions, Vaughn Lucchese is my executive director. And we didn’t talk about the supplements, but the supplements we recommend are functional genomic nutrition. And again, this is for practitioners only, this is not available, to the public. So that’s where they can go. If anyone wants to get ahold of our office, I don’t have the, you know, the contact information there. But it’s just, you know, tll But also, you know, you do this work, and, you know, I’d highly recommend that you know, people contact you if they want to do this, as well, because there’s only one of me, and I can’t always see everybody that wants to want to do this stuff. So that’s why I’m training, training doctors. So if you are a physician, or a chiropractor, or just even a health coach, you can do this work. But when I say work, I mean it, it’s not a plug it in and it tells you what to do. So if somebody is looking for, gee, this software will just tell me what supplements to give. Don’t bother. This is for the very serious person, is willing to study wants to dig into this a little bit. And although we’re trying to make the software easier to understand all the time, it’s still for the practitioner who wants to dig into it and do some hard work.

Dr. Joel Rosen: Yeah, there’s a learning curve for sure. But like you said, just before we even got started, there are discoveries all the time. And it just is those aha moments. And I’m sure like some light bulbs go off in your head and think about that old, older, difficult client that you didn’t have that piece of the puzzle for. And now it just makes everything so worthwhile, especially when you see their lives turn around, and their life does turn around, which is awesome stuff. So. So Bob, thank you so much for being here today. I always learned so much when I hear from you, it makes me feel like I’m ignoring certain parts of the pathway planner. Now that I see that though, I’m like, Okay, I gotta go back up into there a little bit more. But that’s awesome information. I think that the listener is gonna get so much out of this today. And I really just want to thank you for all that you do. and wish you continued success and great health for you and your family going forward.

Dr. Bob Miller: Well, thank you so much. Always a pleasure to chat with you. And thank you for the kind words and I can just promise everybody, we’re going to be working as hard as we can to continue to research. I’m very blessed. My son’s following in my footsteps. He’s now he’s his master’s in pharmacogenomics. And he does a lot of the research so we make a good team. And the bottom line is we want to contribute to humanity. That’s, that’s what we want to do. So thank you.

Dr. Joel Rosen: Thank you.


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